For 70m each neither come without risk.
ND: Ligue 1 is a bit suspect... Aurier, JGK, N'Jie have all struggled.
GLC: Ditched by PSG. Betis finished 10th.
What's worse losing 5m on GKN or 40m on GLC?
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Transfers Summer 2019 transfer thread
- Thread starter Ginolaflair
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For 70m each neither come without risk.
ND: Ligue 1 is a bit suspect... Aurier, JGK, N'Jie have all struggled.
GLC: Ditched by PSG. Betis finished 10th.
What's worse losing 5m on GKN or 40m on GLC?
Liverpool equally would have been well within their rights to ask why they were paying what they were paying for Van Dijk but equally they are entitled to lump that money on him should they wish to.
Van Dijk actually joined Southampton before Klopp joined Liverpool so Klopp wouldn't not get asked such a question as he wasn't under employment at the time. Pochettino however has had his feet firmly under the table mat Spurs during the time in which Lo Celso & Ndombele made moves and became seemingly better players so he would probably be more open to the question.
You do need to spend as a chairman yes but a manager who (speculatively) didn't idenfity 2 players when they were valued at £32m who is (speculatively) asking for them now at a rumoured £140m should equally be open to such questioning if it seems in the best interests of the club which it definitely would be seeing as the club could have saved nearly £110m on both individuals a year or so ago.
I'm not saying to drag Pochettino over the coals because of it, it's more to ensure that measures are taken to ensure that we nab his desired talent before anyone else does by developing better quality in our early step processes. Poch can't wag his finger at Levy if he wants £140m forked out and not expect a wagging finger back in return is what I'm getting at, speculatively of course.
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Maybe a bit of an elephant in the room when talking about Ndombele, Lo Celso and the like..
How many of our signings perform well in their first season? Maybe I'm a bit tired and examples aren't springing to mind. This isn't a call for an argument about 'no players have a good first season at spurs' by the way - just genuine thought.
There's a good chance someone like Ndombele will have a season spattered with mistakes which will be written off as 'not being up to the Premier league speed' or something.
I think it's very likely that Winks will be a more consistent CM for us next season even if we do sign him.
I'm all for keeping a core together that know each other, with small changes (1-3 players) each season rather than squad overhauls which seem to be in vogue for Spurs fans right now.
Poch is all about 'the man' as well as the player too. We want the right fit of player. A part of me is a little worried we will end up with a situation like when Poch arrived - where a load of French speaking players were swiftly given the boot.
It just came to me - Adebayor. He was good in his first season
and VDV/Dele ... yeah ok my points probably invalid - but think you get the idea. I would suggest the likes of Son, Lucas, Rose, Sissoko, Sanchez for example weren't instant hits.
How many of our signings perform well in their first season? Maybe I'm a bit tired and examples aren't springing to mind. This isn't a call for an argument about 'no players have a good first season at spurs' by the way - just genuine thought.
There's a good chance someone like Ndombele will have a season spattered with mistakes which will be written off as 'not being up to the Premier league speed' or something.
I think it's very likely that Winks will be a more consistent CM for us next season even if we do sign him.
I'm all for keeping a core together that know each other, with small changes (1-3 players) each season rather than squad overhauls which seem to be in vogue for Spurs fans right now.
Poch is all about 'the man' as well as the player too. We want the right fit of player. A part of me is a little worried we will end up with a situation like when Poch arrived - where a load of French speaking players were swiftly given the boot.
It just came to me - Adebayor. He was good in his first season
and VDV/Dele ... yeah ok my points probably invalid - but think you get the idea. I would suggest the likes of Son, Lucas, Rose, Sissoko, Sanchez for example weren't instant hits.There's loads of hot property players that lose there moment in the sun and depreciate in value, it happens every year.
Keita Balde, Morgan Schneiderlin, Memphis Depay, Milinkovic-Savic, Leon Bailly all of them financially are on a more negative level than they were when seen as hot property.
The value of a player can increase just as quickly as another players can decrease, hence why I'm a big advocate of occasionally keeping your powder dry.
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I would be shocked if Ndombele a player who looked not just brilliant in the French league but also in the CL turns out to be a flop, he dominated Man City’s midfield when playing them and Man City are hardly bad.
Lo Celso probably has a slightly higher risk but with a manager who has got us top 4 four times on relative peanuts if he feels this is a guy who has the ability to help take us up a level then fine.
The likes of Nije come across as cheap punts we hoped would work, and unproven players are generally more risky, I’d say Ndombele and Lo Celso are certainly more proven then Nije.
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Winks bossed the Real Madrid midfield at Wembley but he's certainly not on Modrics level.
So many factors come in to big game performances. Suppose its comparable with signing players after a good world cup in a way.
Spot on, pretty much sums it up. Also some players wilt under the pressure of a big price tag and/or stepping up to a club where they have to perform consistently on a regular basis.
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Everything about Soldado looked like great business. His league goals, Spain international, well regarded and experienced goalscorer. There was nothing about that deal that left me with anything other than excitement about watching him play. We all know the rest - but on face value he looked like a cracking signing... I thought anyway.
Maybe if you are said oli cunts, then yeh, but 70m IS huge dosh for us... It's not a dead cert.
As I said, we thought we were getting a world beater in Serge.
....But he OK'd all the players I mentioned too. (Not that I'm saying DON'T back Poch, we're just discussion risk....)
But we spent the bulk of our summer pissing about over GKN; we obviously thought he was worth it.
N'Jie was 11m in pre-Neymar money. IIRC, we got Toby for the same price in the same window.
I'm afraid you're the one all over the place.
I'm not advocating sacking the manager - never have - there, I've answered your question directly.
The scouts provide options as prompted by the manager, the manager says yes/no and the chairman stumps up the funds to buy and pay the player.
If the scouting network is not providing options then they need sacking or replacing or reorganising. If the chairman is not furnishing the manager with the funds to buy the players he needs then the manager or chairman needs to go.
Bidding £20m for a £40m player will not work. He'll go to Everton or Leicester.
Is the quietness not having an affect on you?
Bobby Soldado was a terrific penalty taker.
You make a good point however you could point the finger at Klopp and certainly Pep. Generally elite clubs buy elite players and supplement with good young players for the long term.
We could follow the Dortmund model but that would mean season after season buying 3-4 of the best young players around with the expectation at least 1-2 grow into stars but we have never bought at the frequency for this. We certainly can’t go two transfer windows not buying as with players aging or leaving our squad would leave us short.
Based on media speculation we are going for Ndombele and Lo Celso as the elite and Sessegnon and Clarke as the top young players to develop, although Sessegnon is a well known. This maybe a long term model change in line with our stadium completion of it maybe a temporary re-fit. Either way if we opt back for cheap our scouting needs to be better.
On the last point Toby was a steal, we all knew most likely we where getting an absolute bargain, Nije I had no clue what to expect.
70m is a huge amount but so is a 100m from a CL run, money in and out in modern football is insane, even bloody West Ham spent net over 80m last season without any European football and could spend a lot again.
What if the scouts are recommending Lo Celso at £25m, Ndombele at £7m etc Lon before their prices got inflated and it was Pochettino that said no though? Does Poch need sacking?
Speculative mate (word for the day haha) but if our scouts are noticing players and it's Pochettino that is the rickety aspect of our network then what happens then? It would be all well and good Mauricio having a moan up about our lack of spending but if his team aren't identifying shit hot alternatives that see the likes of Ajax, Genk etc get them then equal theu should be open to criticism as well though right?
If the chairman and scouts are open to gettin the can then surely the manager should be for not having processes in place that are more empathetically in line with the clubs current financial situation. The club that pays him a wage to deliver the best possible solutions based on its circumstances and one that he signed a contract extension at barely one year ago for serious dough.
Sissoko doesn't get used as much now as an example of bad spending. Or Lucas after he got us to the CL final.
not as much as he missed themWe'll miss his goals
True elite clubs buy elite players but financially we aren't an elite club yet. We have the 6ft largest fan base of all the Premier League clubs and up until 4 months ago we had the the 8th-10th biggest capacity of any Premier League stadium I believe.
I know social media is iffy to use as a barometer but it's the easiest to access as a benchmark so I'll use it. We have 3.4m followers on Twitter, less then Elneny at Woolwich has which shows we can't be compared with Liverpool and City and how they conduct their business.
We need to invest in better scouting methods instead of try and financially throw it about like teams that are bigger that have nowhere near as much debt as we do. We are closer in size and stature to Everton and Newcastle but we have the chance to change that over time. Infrastructure wise we have surpassed them but that £600m or so needs to get paid back. It's an exciting time but Pochettino can't expect the same from our club as Klopp can of Liverpool, a team that has just surpassed Barcelona in European Championships won.
No, as I've said on several occasions. We need to back his judgement.
He will know how he wants the team to play and will look at the options that the scouts present and whether those options fit in with his plans.
'Valuation' comes from the market, i.e what's the going rate and what we and others are willing to pay.
A very sensible statement in this 800 odd page long thread.