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Transfers Summer 2019 transfer thread

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bus-conductor said:
I'm not saying he's gone from total control to no control - I don't believe either were/are true - I'm sure he still has input, but Pochettino was extremely truculent at times with the media this summer (in fact going back at times toward the end of last season too). And was pretty unequivocal about his role being "changed" back to head coach.

I definitely think it sounds like our process has been slightly rejigged with Poch's influence maybe reducing?

Bottom line is, none of us will ever really know, but I was just going by what he's said himself.

Mkspurs85 Mkspurs85 - just because Poch talks to players doesn't mean he was the initiator or even biggest driving force behind the transfer. Likewise he could be.
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Again I don’t believe any of that for one second.

Imo poch is the driving force for who we sign but then hands control over to levy to try and do the deals.

He maybe gets frustrated with how long it takes for the deals to happen hence his frustration although I do believe he talks absolute crap to the press.

We will never know but for me the profile of players we signed are what poch likes.
 
bus-conductor said:
Mainly there fella himself:


Mauricio Pochettino says he is "not in charge" of transfers at Tottenham and believes his job title should be changed from manager to coach.

The Argentine made the comments after Spurs' 1-0 Audi Cup win over Real Madrid in Munich on Tuesday.

"I know nothing about the situation of my players," said Pochettino.

Following the win over Real, he avoided questions about the future of defender Danny Rose, saying: "I am only coaching them and trying to get the best from them.

"Sell, buy players, sign contract, not sign contract - I think it is not in my hands, it's in the club's hands and [chairman] Daniel Levy.

"The club needs to change my title and description. Of course I am the boss deciding the strategic play, but in another area I don't know. Today, I feel like I am the coach."

Earlier this month, Spurs broke their transfer record to sign Lyon midfielder Tanguy Ndombele - the club's second signing since January 2018.



When he extended his contract at Tottenham in 2016, his job title changed from head coach to manager and the 47-year-old said at the time: "We are agreed that it would be good, for myself, for the club, for all.
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Or you could just reference the transfer committee, which Poch is a member off, who three months ago identified four targets ... all of whom we subsequently signed.

My take is that Poch new exactly what was going on, he just wasn't the one making it happen, that's not his or any other manager's job.

If you're going to take as gospel every word a manager says to the media, you're going to end up looking pretty stupid, because guess what managers don't always tell the media the truth ... I know shocking but there it is .....
 
Airfixx said:
Still haven't answered my question...

What make you so sure Poch wants older players.
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It wasn't just "older" per se, but more experienced/proven/profile players, around the time (2016 ish) we gave him more say in transfers, he seemed to be making noises about how we need to compete with others and we bought players like (27yo Sissoko, 24yo Aurier, 25yo Moura, 31yo Llorente. I think these were compromised attempts by spurs/Poch to get nearer to that profile.

I know we also still bought some younger players like Sanchez and Foyth etc, I'm not saying it's black and white. But this summer we've bought 4 players, two 23yos, a 19yo and an 18yo - not one well established, proven player, seasoned international etc etc (great bunch of signings though IMO, except Clark who I know nothing about really) and Poch has said what he's said, about having little say in transfers. I don't believe this is black and white either, Poch says a lot of wonky gibberish at times, but he's been pretty truculent of late.
 
BangkokSpud said:
Or you could just reference the transfer committee, which Poch is a member off, who three months ago identified four targets ... all of whom we subsequently signed.

My take is that Poch new exactly what was going on, he just wasn't the one making it happen, that's not his or any other manager's job.

If you're going to take as gospel every word a manager says to the media, you're going to end up looking pretty stupid, because guess what managers don't always tell the media the truth ... I know shocking but there it is .....
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See my answer above.
 
bus-conductor said:
See my answer above.
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Not sure at what age a player becomes a "well established, proven player" all these players are still well under 25 - yet all in my book are well proven established players

Mbappe, Dele, Sane, Asensio, Dembele, the list is very long, that old adage if you're good enough you're old enough can certainly be applied ...

Are you claiming that Ndombele and Lo Celso aren't well established proven players?

Ndombele - 66 games at Lyon 6 games for France, Played in the EL and CL
Lo Celso - 38 games at PSG, 32 at Betis, 18 games for Argentina.

That's a ridiculous claim even for you Blakey, even young Sessegnon has 106 games for Fulham, 35 of those at EPL level so they are hardly rookies.

I would say that three out of our four signings are 1st team ready even at there young age ... after all they haven't been bought to play for the under 23's.

Would be great to sign 200m ready made 26 year old world beaters but they're simply not available, we don't want to do a West Ham or an Woolwich signing others ageing cast-offs to prop up the squad for a year or two. Now we can afford it signing the best youngsters is the way to go ....

In case you are still not convinced - Man City signed 15 of the current treble winning squad all at below 25 years of age ... how's that working out for them?
 
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BangkokSpud said:
Not sure at what age a player becomes a "well established, proven player" all these players are still well under 25 - yet all in my book are well proven established players

Mbappe, Dele, Sane, Asensio, Dembele, the list is very long, that old adage if you're good enough you're old enough can certainly be applied ...

Are you claiming that Ndombele and Lo Celso aren't well established proven players?

Ndombele - 66 games at Lyon 6 games for France, Played in the EL and CL
Lo Celso - 38 games at PSG, 32 at Betis, 18 games for Argentina.

That's a ridiculous claim even for you Blakey, even young Sessegnon has 106 games for Fulham, 35 of those at EPL level so they are hardly rookies.

I would say that three out of our four signings are 1st team ready even at they're young age ... after all they haven't been bought to play for the under 23's.

Would be great to sign 200m ready made 26 year old world beaters but they're simply not available, we don't want to do a West Ham or an Woolwich signing others ageing cast-offs to prop up the squad for a year or two. Now we can afford it signing the best youngsters is the way to go ....

In case you are still not convinced - Man City signed 15 of the current treble winning squad all at below 25 years of age ... how's that working out for them?
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Nearly as ridiculous as you claiming we should scout players according to their medal haul eh?

If we used your system we wouldn’t have signed any of them, we’d have signed Delph instead of Lo Celso, Kadira instead of NDombele...because...they’ve got shit loads more medals and whatnot....

All of the players we signed have less experience, less “profile”, less international experience than the previous group I mentioned. But they all have a shitload more scope and potential development ceilings. Was that really difficult for you to figure out?

I’m not complaining that we are signing more slightly younger players with slightly more emphasis on potential, I’m welcoming it. I think it’s a model that served us well previously.
 
bus-conductor said:
Nearly as ridiculous as you claiming we should scout players according to their medal haul eh?

If we used your system we wouldn’t have signed any of them, we’d have signed Delph instead of Lo Celso, Kadira instead of NDombele...because...they’ve got shit loads more medals and whatnot....

All of the players we signed have less experience, less “profile”, less international experience than the previous group I mentioned. But they all have a shitload more scope and potential development ceilings. Was that really difficult for you to figure out?

I’m not complaining that we are signing more slightly younger players with slightly more emphasis on potential, I’m welcoming it. I think it’s a model that served us well previously.
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So who said this?

But this summer we've bought 4 players, two 23yos, a 19yo and an 18yo - not one well established, proven player, seasoned international
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Did someone hack your account? or did you simply say something that you now regret? do you still stand by that frankly ludicrous statement?

You chop and change your argument so much it's getting hard to tell ... who knows soon you might even praise Sissoko ... now that really would be something
 


I thought Danni Olmo might well have been our final choice for the forward line - even after the Dybala move collapsed - still think we could be one short up there especially if Eriksen leaves later this month, although still think that move is in the balance.
 
Spursidol said:


I thought Danni Olmo might well have been our final choice for the forward line - even after the Dybala move collapsed - still think we could be one short up there especially if Eriksen leaves later this month, although still think that move is in the balance.
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In some ways he reminds me of Eriksen on the pitch. I would have liked him. Seems crazy that Ajax will owe Dinamo 40% when they one day sell Olmo. Or maybe they have some smart way of loaning him out.
 
BangkokSpud said:
So who said this?



Did someone hack your account? or did you simply say something that you now regret? do you still stand by that frankly ludicrous statement?

You chop and change your argument so much it's getting hard to tell ... who knows soon you might even praise Sissoko ... now that really would be something
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I think you really need to think things through before you dive like an exuberant puppy, all eager to to look clever with your apoplectic “how ridiculousness”. You did exactly this last week and ended up looking very silly didn’t you.

If you can't tell the difference between 23yo Ndombele's 60 odd games and 27yo Moussa Sissoko's 300+ when we bought him, then you are the one being ridiculous. Sissoko had nearly 50 caps when we bought him, Ndombele's 6 are made up of 1 meaningful start against Andorra, two friendly starts and the rest as subs.

Moura had played over 230 games for PSG and had 35 caps when we bought him. See the difference between that and Lo Celso's 27 starts for Betis and 18 starts for PSG the season before, and 4 meaningful starts for Argentina and a handful of friendlies?

And most of Sessegnon's 100 odd appearances were in 2nd tier championship and not a single full cap. 26 starts in top flight football. Slightly different to Aurier's 230 games of top flight football, inc 80 at one of Europe's top clubland 26 caps.


Are you getting the gist now? The players we have bought obviously have some experience and "profile" but it is different to those I compared them to, they are much earlier on the career path and are much less exposed with more potential than the players I compared them to.
 
bus-conductor said:
It wasn't just "older" per se, but more experienced/proven/profile players, around the time (2016 ish) we gave him more say in transfers, he seemed to be making noises about how we need to compete with others and we bought players like (27yo Sissoko, 24yo Aurier, 25yo Moura, 31yo Llorente. I think these were compromised attempts by spurs/Poch to get nearer to that profile.

I know we also still bought some younger players like Sanchez and Foyth etc, I'm not saying it's black and white. But this summer we've bought 4 players, two 23yos, a 19yo and an 18yo - not one well established, proven player, seasoned international etc etc (great bunch of signings though IMO, except Clark who I know nothing about really) and Poch has said what he's said, about having little say in transfers. I don't believe this is black and white either, Poch says a lot of wonky gibberish at times, but he's been pretty truculent of late.
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S'funny, cos of the players you mention Sissoko, Llorente & Lucas were all opportunistically cast as "levy signings" by his detractors for different reasons.

As for Lucas & Aurier: 24 & 25 are pre-peak development ages and I'd say don't fit the profile you're painting at all.

The simplest interpretation of his summer outburst was clearly; "I don't do the deals so fuck off with your dumb questions you media wankers" mixed with a tint of "hurry up Levy" thrown in. This whole 'different player profile'-drive you're highlighting is significantly short of anything Poch has actually said (or even implied)... If as you say, Poch is prone to "wonky gibberish" then why of all avenues to take would you choose to interpret it as things he hasn't 'hinted' towards.

Out of all our links and business over the last few years you only manage to cite 2 players that are above 25, FFS.
 
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