• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Transfers Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Jamie gspurs said:
Use that logic and no signing that has ever been made in football was a mistake at the time then
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, no.

Janssen was 22 when we signed him, was a Holland international with about 3 goals in 5 caps, including a goal against England in a game Pochettino purposefully watched him for and coming off the back of a 31 goal season (in 49 games) in Holland and all for £15,000,000.

Wheres the mistake in that? Perhaps probably could have scouted him a further year to see how continues to develop, but then what if someone else comes in and snaps him up?

Janssen was given 12 starts in 3 years at Tottenham. He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists for us.

He accumulated just over 1,300 minutes for us in those 3 seasons here, which equates to just over 15 games played for Spurs.

Having a hand in 10 goals in 15 games isn't a bad record.

I think it's a shame it didn't work out.

I think we've made a ton more fuck ups in the transfer market from 16/17 onwards than Vincent Janssen, who probably isn't even in the top 5.
 
Totti said:
Well, no.

Janssen was 22 when we signed him, was a Holland international with about 3 goals in 5 caps, including a goal against England in a game Pochettino purposefully watched him for and coming off the back of a 31 goal season (in 49 games) in Holland and all for £15,000,000.

Wheres the mistake in that? Perhaps probably could have scouted him a further year to see how continues to develop, but then what if someone else comes in and snaps him up?

Janssen was given 12 starts in 3 years at Tottenham. He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists for us.

He accumulated just over 1,300 minutes for us in those 3 seasons here, which equates to just over 15 games played for Spurs.

Having a hand in 10 goals in 15 games isn't a bad record.

I think it's a shame it didn't work out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Jozy Altidore and Alfonso alves scored a bucket load in Holland....

We bought a player that was so far away from being premier league quality in my opinion

That can only suggest to me that we bought a player because of his numbers and that he was young and available reasonably cheap

I see no evidence that he was actually well scouted before we bought him

But whatever , none of us actually know , just my opinion
 
Jamie gspurs said:
Jozy Altidore and Alfonso alves scored a bucket load in Holland....

We bought a player that was so far away from being premier league quality in my opinion

That can only suggest to me that we bought a player because of his numbers and that he was young and available reasonably cheap

I see no evidence that he was actually well scouted before we bought him

But whatever , none of us actually know , just my opinion
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And so did Ruud van Nistelrooy and Luis Suarez...

I mean arguably our midfielder of the last decade came from the Dutch league too and he had an awful striking record (despite actually playing as a forward) in Mousa Dembele..

Like I said, perhaps we could have continued to scout him for a further year to see if it was just a one off (like Afonso Alves) or if he was just stronger than the defenders (like Alitodre). But maybe we also didn't want to take the risk that he was actually really good and a bigger club would have snapped him up etc.

But Pochettino went to watch him during a Holland vs. England game, in which he was brilliant and decided he wanted to sign him.

But no way do I think it was a failure or a mistake to actually sign Vincent Janssen during the 16/17 window as a young back up to Harry Kane.
 
Totti said:
And so did Ruud van Nistelrooy and Luis Suarez...

I mean arguably our midfielder of the last decade came from the Dutch league too and he had an awful striking record (despite actually playing as a forward) in Mousa Dembele..

Like I said, perhaps we could have continued to scout him for a further year to see if it was just a one off (like Afonso Alves) or if he was just stronger than the defenders (like Alitodre). But maybe we also didn't want to take the risk that he was actually really good and a bigger club would have snapped him up etc.

But Pochettino went to watch him during a Holland vs. England game, in which he was brilliant and decided he wanted to sign him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fair enough, some good points there
 
Igula said:
I think as a footballer Davies is a better player. Serge has way more talent but no idea how to use it so Davies is the preferred player because despite his vast limitations at least he understands the game. Ideally though both would be upgraded on as neither is close to good enough.

I also think that Davies would be much easier to coach because although he limits what you can do, if you put him in a specific role (one that has zero ball playing or offensive responsibility and minimizes the space he has to cover defensively) you know that he can and will go out and do that. With Serge you can make all the plans in the world and he will just go out and do whatever the hell he wants, which is usually the dumbest thing possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't get how people just gloss over the fact he can't play the ball and is so poor offensively. It hurts Son that an effective overlap will never be there, something Rose could give him. Why settle for a full back that is *SO* bad going forward.

You look at a player like Wan Bissaka, he gets pelters for not being great going forward but he's an absolute unit defensively, especially 1v1s. Davies is not a special type of defender at all.
 
Totti said:
Well, no.

Janssen was 22 when we signed him, was a Holland international with about 3 goals in 5 caps, including a goal against England in a game Pochettino purposefully watched him for and coming off the back of a 31 goal season (in 49 games) in Holland and all for £15,000,000.

Wheres the mistake in that? Perhaps probably could have scouted him a further year to see how continues to develop, but then what if someone else comes in and snaps him up?

Janssen was given 12 starts in 3 years at Tottenham. He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists for us.

He accumulated just over 1,300 minutes for us in those 3 seasons here, which equates to just over 15 games played for Spurs.

Having a hand in 10 goals in 15 games isn't a bad record.

I think it's a shame it didn't work out.

I think we've made a ton more fuck ups in the transfer market from 16/17 onwards than Vincent Janssen, who probably isn't even in the top 5.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I remember talking to a Dutch neighbour just after Spurs signed Janssen, and he was very surprised at us signing him after in effect one good season in Netherlands - he described Janssen as simply too raw at that time and needed at least another season at Netherlands to be ready for a move to PL let alone a club size of Spurs (he was a big Feyenoord fan, but liked to watch Spurs in UK).

I think you are correct that we had far worse transfer disasters than Janssen between 2015 and 2018, but still think we could have handled Jansssen a whole lot better and got ourselves an alternative striker to Kane for a few years.
 
Spursidol said:
I remember talking to a Dutch neighbour just after Spurs signed Janssen, and he was very surprised at us signing him after in effect one good season in Netherlands - he described Janssen as simply too raw at that time and needed at least another season at Netherlands to be ready for a move to PL let alone a club size of Spurs (he was a big Feyenoord fan, but liked to watch Spurs in UK).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's even worse than that, he didn't start scoring on a regular basis for AZ until January of that season, the season before that he was playing in the Jupiler League (which is Leaguo Two level).
 
MindBlown said:
Summer 2016, 2017 and 2018.

We were signing average players as covers for the likes of Dier, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Son and Kane instead of signing players who were either as good as or better to keep the likes of Eriksen and Dele on their toes.

In those 3 seasons, we were in a position of strength to build a team that could sustain regular CL footy and compete with city and dipper for the highest honors.

Same mistakes were made in summer 2010 and 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree with you 100% it's what I was saying.We were spending 10-15 on a player buying some with only 1 season i
MindBlown said:
Summer 2016, 2017 and 2018.

We were signing average players as covers for the likes of Dier, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Son and Kane instead of signing players who were either as good as or better to keep the likes of Eriksen and Dele on their toes.

In those 3 seasons, we were in a position of strength to build a team that could sustain regular CL footy and compete with city and dipper for the highest honors.

Same mistakes were made in summer 2010 and 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree 100% we would spend 10-15 mill on a player or less and buy 3 or 4 a season.Spending 40-50 mill and recouping nearly the same.Why did we not just spend that amount on 1 or 2 top class player's.Instead of the average ones we got.Yes we did get a few good ones ,Son and Toby but the rest are average.Some are still here but they are not of the quality I want.Sissoko ,Davies and Lucas are not the quality we need to challenge for the title .Now again it looks as though we will be doing the same
 
Clynelish said:
It's even worse than that, he didn't start scoring on a regular basis for AZ until January of that season, the season before that he was playing in the Jupiler League (which is Leaguo Two level).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He played 1,274 minutes in the first half of the Eredivisie in 15/16 - this is the equivalent of 14 games and he had a hand in 9 goals....

In the second half of the season though he definitely went up a gear. Played in 1,552 minutes which is the equivalent to 18 games and had a hand in 23 goals.

I don't think Pochettino got rid of Janssen because of his ability though - I do remember rumours of some kind of bust up and Janssen refusing a loan to Brighton - I just think he pissed Pochettino off and there was no coming back.
 
Totti said:
He played 1,274 minutes in the first half of the Eredivisie in 15/16 - this is the equivalent of 14 games and he had a hand in 9 goals....
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He scored 6 goals in the first 17 matches in The Eredivisie for a 'good' side like AZ (4th best team behind Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord), which is nothing if you know anything about the state of the defenders in that league.. Victor Anichebe would've accomplished the same. He had a good second half of the season though and that's why we bought him.. 5 impressive months in a Mickey Mouse league and a couple of matches for Holland because they didn't have a decent striker at the time.

Might have been worth a punt for £8m, £19m was absolutely ridiculous for a player of his calibre.
 
Last edited:






tenor.gif
 
Last edited:
Totti said:
Well, no.

Janssen was 22 when we signed him, was a Holland international with about 3 goals in 5 caps, including a goal against England in a game Pochettino purposefully watched him for and coming off the back of a 31 goal season (in 49 games) in Holland and all for £15,000,000.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If it was as simple as crunching numbers on a spreadsheet then there'd be no need for scouts, managers, recruitment departments, heck, anything. That's the job of a scout - to identify talent. Scoring a bucketload in the Dutch league isn't an indicator the player will make it in the PL - remember Alfonso Alves? Conversely RVP and Van Nistelrooy were both excellent: that's the point of scouting them, to see who's got the qualities that will mesh well with our style of football.

Totti said:
Wheres the mistake in that? Perhaps probably could have scouted him a further year to see how continues to develop, but then what if someone else comes in and snaps him up?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Er, fine?

Totti said:
Janssen was given 12 starts in 3 years at Tottenham. He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists for us.

He accumulated just over 1,300 minutes for us in those 3 seasons here, which equates to just over 15 games played for Spurs.

Having a hand in 10 goals in 15 games isn't a bad record.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Please, no.

Totti said:
I think it's a shame it didn't work out.

I think we've made a ton more fuck ups in the transfer market from 16/17 onwards than Vincent Janssen, who probably isn't even in the top 5.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Agree with both these points. Vinny tried hard and gave it his best on the pitch , although a legitimate question hangs in the air re. conditioning, looked a touch heavy imho. I agree we've made bigger mistakes in the transfer market too, but not sure what that says about Janssen...

Got to say - not aimed at you in particular Totti Totti - I find the Janssen revisionism amongst sections of our fanbase really baffling. He had a good chance and looked awful every time he played, just totally off the pace, out of his depth etc. I appreciate things don't always work out but he did look somewhere between Rasiak and Soldado in our annals of striker flops. For note: 1 in 4 in the Turkish league, 1 in 5 in the Mexican league subsequently.
 
Totti said:
Well, no.

Janssen was 22 when we signed him, was a Holland international with about 3 goals in 5 caps, including a goal against England in a game Pochettino purposefully watched him for and coming off the back of a 31 goal season (in 49 games) in Holland and all for £15,000,000.

Wheres the mistake in that? Perhaps probably could have scouted him a further year to see how continues to develop, but then what if someone else comes in and snaps him up?

Janssen was given 12 starts in 3 years at Tottenham. He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists for us.

He accumulated just over 1,300 minutes for us in those 3 seasons here, which equates to just over 15 games played for Spurs.

Having a hand in 10 goals in 15 games isn't a bad record.

I think it's a shame it didn't work out.

I think we've made a ton more fuck ups in the transfer market from 16/17 onwards than Vincent Janssen, who probably isn't even in the top 5.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That is decent production, although it is a small sample size. Why didn’t get get more playing time? Kane?
 
prinmemo said:
Why didn’t get get more playing time? Kane?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Because he wasn't good enough for where we wanted to go.

'We didn't give Janssen enough of a chance' is one of my least favourite genres of TFC posts. You don't see the same posts about Rasiak for some reason, despite his highlight reel for Derby making him look like Messi. And tbc - I think Janssen was better - different level in fact, but then I would expect more for a £15 mil striker.
 
Clynelish said:
He scored 6 goals in the first 17 matches in The Eredivisie for a 'good' side like AZ (4th best team behind Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord), which is nothing.. Victor Anichebe would've accomplished the same. He had a good second half of the season though and that's why we bought him.. 5 impressive months in The Eredivisie and a couple of matches for Holland because they didn't have a decent striker at the time.

Might have been worth a punt for £8m, £22m was absolutely ridiculous for a player of his calibre.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He scored 10 goals in his first 17 starts in the Eredivisie, getting 3 assists in the mean time. I don't think having a hand in 13 goals in 17 starts for a 21 year old in a new league is particularly bad at all...

Especially when people wanted Osimhen for a lot more, when he's the same age Janssen was and managed 10 goals and 4 assists in his first 17 starts in Ligue 1..

We bought him because Pochettino scouted him and wanted him based on what he saw...

Here's another one. People would have preferred Batshuayi for the fee quoted (£30,000,000), nearly DOUBLE Janssen.

He managed 10 goals in his first 17 starts that season in Ligue 1 and hitting 5 assists.....
 
Totti said:
He scored 10 goals in his first 17 starts in the Eredivisie, getting 3 assists in the mean time. I don't think having a hand in 13 goals in 17 starts for a 21 year old in a new league is particularly bad at all...

Especially when people wanted Osimhen for a lot more, when he's the same age Janssen was and managed 10 goals and 4 assists in his first 17 starts in Ligue 1..

We bought him because Pochettino scouted him and wanted him based on what he saw...

Here's another one. People would have preferred Batshuayi for the fee quoted (£30,000,000), nearly DOUBLE Janssen.

He managed 10 goals in his first 17 starts that season in Ligue 1 and hitting 5 assists.....
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, I was already very sceptical when we signed him, but after a couple of months it was obvious that he was a massive flop for £19m.. Looked more like a £7m player when we signed him at the time (a club like Feyenoord would've made more sense for him).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top