Literally anything that breaks up Winksoko for good is music to my ears.
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Transfers Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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Literally anything that breaks up Winksoko for good is music to my ears.
I’m still clinging on to the hope that he is the missing piece of the jigsaw and he will allow us to play GLC and Ndombele as a midfield 3
There are plenty of things that people could not like, how valid those concerns are is up to you:
Some like KWP and think we are wrong in selling him at all or think we are selling to cheap.
Some don't like PEH at all.
Some think that while he is an improvement over what we have now that he isn't enough of an improvement for what we actually need.
Some think he is not a true DM.
There are certainly legitimate complaints about this move.
What's not to like is the tweet coming in five minutes that Southampton don't like the deal and this dragging on as 48 hours away from completion until 11:59 PM Deadline Day.
I'd like to attempt a civil debate about this, but given the touchy subject I will put it in a spoiler, as to not ruin anyones day who absolutely hates Levy
TL;DR I fully agree with criticism regarding Levy that is fair and proven, but in addition to this (in my humble opinion) Levy is also blamed for more than he is responsible for.
I'll work with sub titles to cover my main problems with some reasoning on this forum:
1) Levy isn't the only one to blame when a transfer falls through
We are a big club, multiple scouts, multiple people working together to get a deal done (+ a full team at the other club that we want to deal with + agents). Levy isn't a dictator, I truly believe he acts on the ideas that the whole team has agreed to beforehand. If a target doesn't come to fruition, I don't think it's fair to only blame Levy for it (if there is prove he is the only one to blame, feel free to have a go at him). Also, and I am totally fine with people having another view on this, I believe it's sometimes best to walk away from a deal if the price is too high. (This wouldn't apply to clubs who aren't self-sufficient like PSG, City or Chelsea) For example Bruno and Dybala (who I would have LOVED at our club btw). Would they both seem like steals now? Yes, but you can't predict the future, every transfer involves a lot of money and a lot of risk.
2) "Levy has a hidden agenda at the cost of our club"
Levy wants the biggest amount of money possible for his shares if he choses to sell them. And I am 100% OK with this. There aren't a lot of things that I can think of that he can do in this regard that are not in the best interest of the club at the same time (in the long run). He also doesn't suck the club dry through dividends (Imagine if he would pay himself dividends and at the same time say there's no money for transfers, then I would be the first to sign the petition, THIS ISN'T THE CASE THOUGH). "But he earns a lot of money, relatively more than other chairmans" Well, he is also more business savvy than most other chairmans, our superior commercial growth rate is an example of this (Note: Just like I don't agree with blaming everything on Levy, I'll admit it's also incorrect to only praise him for every commercial success, since this is linked with how good the players are. However, I still think my point here is reasonable.)
3) "If you don't hate him, that means you're sucking his balls you propaganda machine"
I get the feeling that to some people the "not anti Levy camp" has the mental capacity of the flat earth community. This kind of exaggeration prohibits any kind of healthy discussion. This bothers me.
4) Squad as good as United =/= the funds as good as United (Or: Liverpool, City, Chelsea)
We earn less than the biggest teams, which means we aren't able to spend as much. "Look at who Club X bought, why didn't we buy him, we have zero ambition." "Levy is lying when he says Covid influences our spending power this year". The rules don't apply to clubs with bottomless owner money (City and Chelsea after two windows of transfer ban mind you), or clubs with such high income streams compared to their costs that even a worldwide pandemic won't hurt them (United?). We have HUGE DEBT that's hurting our budget (it would be far more reasonable to say "Levy's over-reliance on debt financing is now hurting the club in these exceptional times") . The stance on spending what we ACTUALLY earn has historically been frugal (I'll admit that!), but this year I believe this will only amount to 20% (not 0%!) of the reason we aren't spending big (while 80% is because of the economic situation) if this way of saying it makes sense. Extra: whilst it would be great as a fan, I don't think it is good business to spend above our status and hope the increase in performance on the pitch will pay for itself afterwards.
5) "Additional concerts and a possible NFL franchise are at the expense of the football club"
I am cynical/skeptical at heart, but I can't wrap my head around this reasoning. Our pitch can't be damaged, and in the worst case the football club needs to reschedule a few matches to accommodate the Americans. It's great publicity for our club and the profits go to the club (Back up your statements with evidence if you are convinced it isn't so).
6) Things I don't like about Levy/ Things I don't agree with from the ideology of the club
(Because I do try to be objective here)
- Negotiating is good BUT it can take too long. If a deal falls through and there's no time left to go for an alternative, that's bad business. However, I would rather pay 5 million less for a player if it means he misses preseason though (I am OK with people disagreeing with this).
- Levy isn't that likeable as a person. He could do better in this regard.
- If we weren't in the midst of our stadium build, more money could have gone to our squad in the short term. (Tbh, I don't think anyone at the club expected the squad to perform as well under Poch)
- There is a way to spend more and still be within reason. Still no City/Chelsea/United level though to be clear.
- I find it odd that if Levy doesn't believe in the big spending philosophy, that he stopped at world class infrastructure as an alternative. I would find it logical if he would hire a strong figure to implement a club wide football culture that transcends the current first team manager. Kind of like the Dortmund/ Red Bull network/ ...) That way bang average players could shine in a world class system. (Would be very profitable too).
- I understand that people have a problem with the so-called "Only top 4 ambition" (to an extent). I believe we need to be CL participants for several years to get our commercial revenue and prize money up to speed in order to become a long term BIG club. (I think) I prefer 10 CL seasons to 1 PL title & being midtable afterwards for the next decade. (I am OK with people disagreeing on this)
Other nuanced views on the matter are welcome, as it is perfectly possible there are 'loopholes' in my reasoning. You could be of the conviction that overall Levy has done more bad than good. But if you can't recognize the good I'm not really interested in your view. People who read this and are boiling with rage, it's not worth it, put me on ignore and enjoy your evening, I'm just a random bloke on the internet you've never met.
I'll work with sub titles to cover my main problems with some reasoning on this forum:
1) Levy isn't the only one to blame when a transfer falls through
We are a big club, multiple scouts, multiple people working together to get a deal done (+ a full team at the other club that we want to deal with + agents). Levy isn't a dictator, I truly believe he acts on the ideas that the whole team has agreed to beforehand. If a target doesn't come to fruition, I don't think it's fair to only blame Levy for it (if there is prove he is the only one to blame, feel free to have a go at him). Also, and I am totally fine with people having another view on this, I believe it's sometimes best to walk away from a deal if the price is too high. (This wouldn't apply to clubs who aren't self-sufficient like PSG, City or Chelsea) For example Bruno and Dybala (who I would have LOVED at our club btw). Would they both seem like steals now? Yes, but you can't predict the future, every transfer involves a lot of money and a lot of risk.
2) "Levy has a hidden agenda at the cost of our club"
Levy wants the biggest amount of money possible for his shares if he choses to sell them. And I am 100% OK with this. There aren't a lot of things that I can think of that he can do in this regard that are not in the best interest of the club at the same time (in the long run). He also doesn't suck the club dry through dividends (Imagine if he would pay himself dividends and at the same time say there's no money for transfers, then I would be the first to sign the petition, THIS ISN'T THE CASE THOUGH). "But he earns a lot of money, relatively more than other chairmans" Well, he is also more business savvy than most other chairmans, our superior commercial growth rate is an example of this (Note: Just like I don't agree with blaming everything on Levy, I'll admit it's also incorrect to only praise him for every commercial success, since this is linked with how good the players are. However, I still think my point here is reasonable.)
3) "If you don't hate him, that means you're sucking his balls you propaganda machine"
I get the feeling that to some people the "not anti Levy camp" has the mental capacity of the flat earth community. This kind of exaggeration prohibits any kind of healthy discussion. This bothers me.
4) Squad as good as United =/= the funds as good as United (Or: Liverpool, City, Chelsea)
We earn less than the biggest teams, which means we aren't able to spend as much. "Look at who Club X bought, why didn't we buy him, we have zero ambition." "Levy is lying when he says Covid influences our spending power this year". The rules don't apply to clubs with bottomless owner money (City and Chelsea after two windows of transfer ban mind you), or clubs with such high income streams compared to their costs that even a worldwide pandemic won't hurt them (United?). We have HUGE DEBT that's hurting our budget (it would be far more reasonable to say "Levy's over-reliance on debt financing is now hurting the club in these exceptional times") . The stance on spending what we ACTUALLY earn has historically been frugal (I'll admit that!), but this year I believe this will only amount to 20% (not 0%!) of the reason we aren't spending big (while 80% is because of the economic situation) if this way of saying it makes sense. Extra: whilst it would be great as a fan, I don't think it is good business to spend above our status and hope the increase in performance on the pitch will pay for itself afterwards.
5) "Additional concerts and a possible NFL franchise are at the expense of the football club"
I am cynical/skeptical at heart, but I can't wrap my head around this reasoning. Our pitch can't be damaged, and in the worst case the football club needs to reschedule a few matches to accommodate the Americans. It's great publicity for our club and the profits go to the club (Back up your statements with evidence if you are convinced it isn't so).
6) Things I don't like about Levy/ Things I don't agree with from the ideology of the club
(Because I do try to be objective here)
- Negotiating is good BUT it can take too long. If a deal falls through and there's no time left to go for an alternative, that's bad business. However, I would rather pay 5 million less for a player if it means he misses preseason though (I am OK with people disagreeing with this).
- Levy isn't that likeable as a person. He could do better in this regard.
- If we weren't in the midst of our stadium build, more money could have gone to our squad in the short term. (Tbh, I don't think anyone at the club expected the squad to perform as well under Poch)
- There is a way to spend more and still be within reason. Still no City/Chelsea/United level though to be clear.
- I find it odd that if Levy doesn't believe in the big spending philosophy, that he stopped at world class infrastructure as an alternative. I would find it logical if he would hire a strong figure to implement a club wide football culture that transcends the current first team manager. Kind of like the Dortmund/ Red Bull network/ ...) That way bang average players could shine in a world class system. (Would be very profitable too).
- I understand that people have a problem with the so-called "Only top 4 ambition" (to an extent). I believe we need to be CL participants for several years to get our commercial revenue and prize money up to speed in order to become a long term BIG club. (I think) I prefer 10 CL seasons to 1 PL title & being midtable afterwards for the next decade. (I am OK with people disagreeing on this)
Other nuanced views on the matter are welcome, as it is perfectly possible there are 'loopholes' in my reasoning. You could be of the conviction that overall Levy has done more bad than good. But if you can't recognize the good I'm not really interested in your view. People who read this and are boiling with rage, it's not worth it, put me on ignore and enjoy your evening, I'm just a random bloke on the internet you've never met.
The real test is will get be an improvement over winks or sissoko? If the answer is yes then for £3 million it’s a steal! For KWP he had failed to impress 2 managers now at Spurs so maybe it’s best to cut ties especially when we are apparently so skint
Nah, Jose saw PEH play RB the other week and is sold.
It's not going to matter who we sign he is going to moan and bitch and find fault with everyone. Imagine having next to you at a game
Tottenham Hotspur: Spurs firmly in the race to sign Real Betis midfielder William Carvalho this summer
Tottenham Hotspur are firmly in the race to sign William Carvalho from Real Betis this summer, accoring to reports. Spurs manager Jose Mourinho wanted to sign Carvalho during his time in charge of…
www.footballtransfertavern.com
If he is better than Winks and Sissoko but still at a level that keeps us below the top 4 I don't think it will be much of a steal at all. If all we are doing is making slight improvement while our rivals are making bigger improvements than overall it doesn't help much.
I think it comes down to what you expect/want for Spurs. If making an improvement on our poor players and competing for 5/6th is good enough then PEH is a good addition. If you want to be a competitive top 4 team that can have success in the CL then I think he is an underwhelming addition that doesn't do much to get us to that level.
Me, yelling wildly and incoherently about agreeing withBill Madrid and regression while holding this sign above my head:
I don't really understand those charts, but I'm guessing that means he got a load worse last season, right?
I'm probably exaggerating with the "I've lost count" thing as I don't watch a massive lot of Spanish football, but I can remember a few times texting an Atleti mate and laughing out loud, last time being the last Madrid derby at the Bernabéu.
He was decent against Liverpool recently though wasn't he? That's going to get people salivating...
Who would you sign instead of him who is PL proven and doesn’t need a season to adjust?
Tottenham Hotspur: Spurs firmly in the race to sign Real Betis midfielder William Carvalho this summer
Tottenham Hotspur are firmly in the race to sign William Carvalho from Real Betis this summer, accoring to reports. Spurs manager Jose Mourinho wanted to sign Carvalho during his time in charge of…
That will make the "Ndombele is a lazy cunt" fans super excited!
Tottenham to battle London rivals for the signing of versatile defensive star
Tottenham Hotspur are very much keen on signing SC Freiburg defender Robin Koch, but face competition from local rivals West Ham United.
tothelaneandback.com
West Ham or us?
Boy that's a tough decision to make!
He doesn’t even pass the ball forward as much as winks but I agree with the rest of it. I really don’t know what Mourinho sees in him.
But he’s better than Sissoko and if signing him pushes sisssoko out the door then I’m all for it.
I hadn't considered Foyth becoming a homegrown player. That's a bit of a boost if he has a successful loan somewhere this season...
So at the moment, if there were no sales, we have two non-HG spots that can be filled. Højberg looks set to become one of them. This does show how important filling that 3rd choice goalkeeper with someone home grown would be - Vorm was a waste in that regard.
If we're shaping up to sell Aurier then getting Aarons in (though not a popular choice at the moment) would give us more flexibility as he's young enough for the B squad in the CL and will eventually become home grown too. Another choice like Castagne would be 'par'.
Still think we need to be open to selling Lamela and bringing either Brooks or Eze in his place.
Edit: this is probably a motivating factor (aside from saving money) in putting faith in Cirkin to make the step up this season rather than shelling out for a foreign LB.
If West Ham offer a lifetime supply of bubbles we are fucked. No one can resist that.Tottenham to battle London rivals for the signing of versatile defensive star
Tottenham Hotspur are very much keen on signing SC Freiburg defender Robin Koch, but face competition from local rivals West Ham United.
West Ham or us?
Boy that's a tough decision to make!
Yes, he regressed significantly. He is not the slam dunk some people are making him out to be - it just depends on if 2018/19 was the outlier or this past season was.
Hmm but Ndombele is not a DM so he wouldn't be a direct replacement. It would be more like competition for PEH.
The fact is we don’t know what Jose is gonna ask him to do next season but it’s gonna be very different to what he was asked to do by Hasenhutl. A water carrier who allows other players to shine and knits midfield together could lift the level of the team by several notches even if that player is limited, but good at a very specific thing that Jose wants - turnovers to allow the transition.