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Transfers Summer Transfer Thread 2023! - Closed (Maybe)

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To Dare Is To Do. said:
Doc Doc Why are we so bad from passing it out from the back and beating our press? Is it poor coaching or the players?

For example, with Romero Dier Lenglet... there's an argument that all 3 should be decent passers. Romero is sharp, Dier has experience at CM, while Lenglet's passing is his only asset.
And yet when we're pressed we look like deer in the headlights? Is it mostly Lloris' fault?
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Two midfield plodders who don't think and move quick enough and for one of them the ball is a hot potato.

Two (out of three) forwards who don't move smart enough and can't hold onto the ball without it bouncing off them.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I'd take him for sure. I'd take basically anyone who isn't scared of receiving the ball to feet and then passing forwards .. if they can take someone on as well then my god, go out and get them!!!

Some unpredictability would be ideal, with so many in our squad you can bet exactly what they'll try to do and 99/100 you'll be right. We have so many functional, one paced players in this squad & it leaves so little room for being exciting.
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We need a whole bunch of new attacking/creeative options. 8/AM/WF etc etc. None of ours are much good or to be relied on. We also need a proper 6. Some like Caicedo - a right dynamic tenacious busy cunt who can hunt fuckers down but also play football and not shit himself under press like Hojbjerg, or be as nonchalant as Bentancur.

If we got someone like Caicedo it would take pressure off everyone around him. I would bust the bank for that guy.
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
I think it makes most sense to stick with 343. Utilise Porro and Udogie.
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Here we go again with Spurs being Spurs. Just invested all this money into WingBacks. Let’s hope they can handle playing FBs too.

We have 1 good CB. We’d be lucky to find another at Romero’s level. Impossible to get in 2.

I’m also over the 2 man midfield. I know things look worse since Bentancur and Bissouma are out but it takes 2 special players to be able to hold it down.
 
bus-conductor said:
We need a whole bunch of new attacking/creeative options. 8/AM/WF etc etc. None of ours are much good or to be relied on. We also need a proper 6. Some like Caicedo - a right dynamic tenacious busy cunt who can hunt fuckers down but also play football and not shit himself under press like Hojbjerg, or be as nonchalant as Bentancur.

If we got someone like Caicedo it would take pressure off everyone around him. I would bust the bank for that guy.
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Brighton rejected £70m for him in Jan. I suspect that would be accepted as a Summer bid but doubtless it would be in that region .. we can also expect Woolwich to come back in for him, unless they put all their eggs in the Rice basket.

But I agree, think he's great. Him & Mitoma are the gems who will attract big fees there, think McAllister is good but not exceptional.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Brighton rejected £70m for him in Jan. I suspect that would be accepted as a Summer bid but doubtless it would be in that region .. we can also expect Woolwich to come back in for him, unless they put all their eggs in the Rice basket.

But I agree, think he's great. Him & Mitoma are the gems who will attract big fees there, think McAllister is good but not exceptional.
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The media seem to be heavily linking us with Ugarte and Maddison.
 
Tomo said:
The media seem to be heavily linking us with Ugarte and Maddison.
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Don't watch any Portuguese football so can't say a thing about Ugarte. Understand he's a defensive minded midielder though. Palhinha seems to have done well in England, if that means anything..

I do like Maddison. A lot. But do think he'd cost a lot and that we could potentially be smarter with our money. But at the same time, we're a bit stuck because we have serious HG issues, so paying a premium might be entirely necessary.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Brighton rejected £70m for him in Jan. I suspect that would be accepted as a Summer bid but doubtless it would be in that region .. we can also expect Woolwich to come back in for him, unless they put all their eggs in the Rice basket.

But I agree, think he's great. Him & Mitoma are the gems who will attract big fees there, think McAllister is good but not exceptional.
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If I had a choice of Maddison for 70-80m or Caicedo for the same, I'd take Caicedo. He's a team changer. I would really hate it if he went to Arse. Hope they over pay for Rice.
 
Airfixx said:
You're crazy.

.........It hasn't made sense all season.


Play 352 then.
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352 could work if Rich’s form improves as he could play up front with Kane.

Also to: Deuterz Deuterz Macch

The concerns I have with moving to back 4 is Udogie and Porro’s talents being wasted. I also worry more about Romero’s rashness with only 1 CB to cover him rather than 2 (although right now Dier is so shit he doesn’t cover anyone).

Ideally I’d like Nagelsmann who pioneered the modern progressive 3-4-3 system.
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
352 could work if Rich’s form improves as he could play up front with Kane.

Also to: Deuterz Deuterz Macch

The concerns I have with moving to back 4 is Udogie and Porro’s talents being wasted. I also worry more about Romero’s rashness with only 1 CB to cover him rather than 2 (although right now Dier is so shit he doesn’t cover anyone).

Ideally I’d like Nagelsmann who pioneered the modern progressive 3-4-3 system.
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To get away with a 3-4-3 I think you need either need really dynamic attackers who are willing to drop in & support the midfield when necessary or a shit hot midfield two. Chelsea under Conte had Matic/Kante which fits in to that category. IIRC Nagelsmann had Sabitzer/Laimer who are/were running machines and the collective pressing ability of that Leipzig side was exceptional.

I just don't think the overall level of our forwards justify dropping a midfielder, and I'm not sure we have the personnel all round for it. You need dynamic, intelligent, adaptable footballers aplenty to get away with these kind of systems, and we're in short supply of them.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Nobody in here is saying anything of the sort. 4-5 players are needed, probably 200m or so spending (on players who actually work out) to get us to that level where we're consistently playing good, progressive football.

This is absolutely the rational take, it's what Ten Haag spent at Utd (& they still have some way to go) and, with inflation, around what Klopp invested in a single window. Since then the league has only got more and more competitive.

If you're expecting a new, progressive manager to be OK with Lloris continuing in goal, Dier at CB, Hojbjerg in midfield and no pace or excitement on the wings bar an ageing, out of form Son then you're in for a shock.
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When you can find any suggestion that I have said the above plesse let me know, as I will need to book myself in for therapy.
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
352 could work if Rich’s form improves as he could play up front with Kane.

Also to: Deuterz Deuterz Macch

The concerns I have with moving to back 4 is Udogie and Porro’s talents being wasted. I also worry more about Romero’s rashness with only 1 CB to cover him rather than 2 (although right now Dier is so shit he doesn’t cover anyone).

Ideally I’d like Nagelsmann who pioneered the modern progressive 3-4-3 system.
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It's nothing we didn't already do well to great effect in Poch's pomp BUT you need a freak like Dembele (Spurs 2017) or Kante (Chavs 2017) to carry the weight of being a man down in MF most weeks........

However...... Fans are way too preoccupied with CAMs. People have become brainwashed by 4231 the way they once were with 442.

You could easily use the Klopp/Pool model (Fabhino/Henderson/Wijnaldum) and play attacking FBs (TAA/Robertson).......

433

XXX / XXX
Skipp
Biss --------- B'cur
Porro ---------------------- Udogie
XXX / XXX / XXX

or 352

XXX / XXX / XXX
Skipp
Biss --------- B'cur
Porro ---------------------- Udogie
XXX / XXX
​
Both Biss & Bentancur play a fairly vertical game so I see no reason why these can't work..... It would suit both Sarr & PEH to play as #8s when rotated in too. Kane/Son/Rich/Kulu/Gil is a good basis to fill the attacking roles and wouldn't need to sign a tonne of players to get up and running. GK & CBs being the essential missing components (which they are regardless)..... In theory the less players we need to buy the more we can afford to spend on each position.

Any further upgrades (creative/attacking) would be a bonus.
 
Airfixx said:
It's nothing we didn't already do well to great effect in Poch's pomp BUT you need a freak like Dembele (Spurs 2017) or Kante (Chavs 2017) to carry the weight of being a man down in MF most weeks........

However...... Fans are way too preoccupied with CAMs. People have become brainwashed by 4231 the way they once were with 442.

You could easily use the Klopp/Pool model (Fabhino/Henderson/Wijnaldum) and play attacking FBs (TAA/Robertson).......

433

XXX / XXX
Skipp
Biss --------- B'cur
Porro ---------------------- Udogie
XXX / XXX / XXX

or 352

XXX / XXX / XXX
Skipp
Biss --------- B'cur
Porro ---------------------- Udogie
XXX / XXX
​
Both Biss & Bentancur play a fairly vertical game so I see no reason why these can't work..... It would suit both Sarr & PEH to play as #8s when rotated in too. Kane/Son/Rich/Kulu/Gil is a good basis to fill the attacking roles and wouldn't need to sign a tonne of players to get up and running. GK & CBs being the essential missing components (which they are regardless)..... In theory the less players we need to buy the more we can afford to spend on each position.

Any further upgrades (creative/attacking) would be a bonus.
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Liverpool having top tier, elite creative fullbacks (incl a RB who essentially became a right sided midfielder with Henderson covering RB) is what made that possible. That & Firmino who was basically a #10 hybrid .. and ah well, we've been here before.

Most teams (like 90% +) have a player in midfield who will play more advanced and offer creativity. Odegaard, KDB, Fernandes/Eriksen, Muller, Pedri, Modric, Brandt .. etc etc. They don't need to be a designated #10 but Skipp, Bissouma, Bentancur? Ergh. You're going to be SO reliant on fullbacks for creativity that unless they both get double figures then good fucking luck.

And we'd need to totally re-work the front 3 as well ... Liverpool had two absolute livewires with ridiculous pace and long balls fired in to them from VVD/TAA constantly as they tore teams apart in behind. We do not.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Liverpool having top tier, elite creative fullbacks (incl a RB who essentially became a right sided midfielder with Henderson covering RB) is what made that possible. That & Firmino who was basically a #10 hybrid .. and ah well, we've been here before.
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Well the whole point at hand was about playing to our attacking WBs strengths. Add to that Kane often operating like a false ten.... I don't really see the conflict with regards to the above.

Raumdeuterz said:
Most teams (like 90% +) have a player in midfield who will play more advanced and offer creativity. Odegaard, KDB, Fernandes/Eriksen, Muller, Pedri, Modric, Brandt .. etc etc. They don't need to be a designated #10 but Skipp, Bissouma, Bentancur? Ergh. You're going to be SO reliant on fullbacks for creativity that unless they both get double figures then good fucking luck.
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Poch's best team was reliant upon the front 3 to do most of the creating and scoring too.... Walker & Rose provided aggression and energy; not G&As and Dembele/Wanyama provided next to fuck all on that front too.

However, if we don't at least have aspirations for Porro/Udogie (and Spence?) to be productive in this sense then why bother with them at all? .......Might as well just play Emerson & Davies and go back to living in a Jose mid-block world.

(....None of this is to say we couldn't experiment with the likes of Kulu or Gil as one of the #8s either.)

Raumdeuterz said:
And we'd need to totally re-work the front 3 as well ... Liverpool had two absolute livewires with ridiculous pace and long balls fired in to them from VVD/TAA constantly as they tore teams apart in behind. We do not.
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I see your point about pace; but there's more than one way to skin a cat.... Including the way were racking up goals for fun during the second half of last season. Meanwhile, who's to say whatever new CBs we get can't ping a pass or two?

Son & Kane currently come with obv. question marks regarding the future, granted; but one can assume we'll seek to replace them and in doing so can focus on whatever suits our system best.

I just think this summer is more about key signings and unlocking the genuine potential that lies in a lot of these players...... Yes; we have a lot of deadwood to shift, but the answer to getting up and running again next season isn't some 10out/10in window.
 
nicoclaesen said:
We need a central midfielder that is comfortable taking it under pressure and doesn’t hide when things aren’t going right. That makes our back 3 when passing out delay and gives teams that extra second to get at them.
Having a Jorginho,Kovatic or Gundogan type player that can always take the ball and make everything seem calm when it’s frantic around them. We don’t have that.
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We already have 2 of them, both injured
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
352 could work if Rich’s form improves as he could play up front with Kane.

Also to: Deuterz Deuterz Macch

The concerns I have with moving to back 4 is Udogie and Porro’s talents being wasted. I also worry more about Romero’s rashness with only 1 CB to cover him rather than 2 (although right now Dier is so shit he doesn’t cover anyone).

Ideally I’d like Nagelsmann who pioneered the modern progressive 3-4-3 system.
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I’ve hated everything about Richarlison since he has came in but playing up in a front pairing with Harry is probably the only way to use him. Harry will naturally drop and Richarlison can occupy two centre backs and stretch them in behind.
 
Macch said:
Here we go again with Spurs being Spurs. Just invested all this money into WingBacks. Let’s hope they can handle playing FBs too.

We have 1 good CB. We’d be lucky to find another at Romero’s level. Impossible to get in 2.

I’m also over the 2 man midfield. I know things look worse since Bentancur and Bissouma are out but it takes 2 special players to be able to hold it down.
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Major disconnect between Spurs fans, the English football media and our 3-4-3 with 2 CM's is that it's not designed to control the game the way we think of games being controlled.

Spurs was built under the Poch style most recently and we were used to dominating the ball and winning it back quickly.

We have had decent results with 2 CM and allowing opponents to have the ball but needs the CMs to be smart and pick the moments. It's hard to watch at times and only really works when you are clinical up front.

Just not the product the premier league wants to see.
 
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