-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Tactics TFC's Tactical Autopsy Thread
- Thread starter bus-conductor
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
This is great, why don’t we fix the league table according to these jokers metrics. We might win something after all.
He’s calculating exactly 1 metric. Just breaking it up into zones.
I grew up loving statistics but when those that lack the understanding try to interpret statistics, it all goes wrong.
Man City must also be as shit as us then?
Still blows my mind that people are studying the league tables after only 9 games.
Debatable. Against Leicester we should’ve scored a second goal before half time then after they equalised, we shat the bed and didn’t play well for the rest of the game.
Against Newcastle I don’t know, I haven’t watched it.
Against Arse no, we created fuck all. They created fuck all aswell but lucked out from a corner.
Against Brighton no, good first half then absolutely fucking shit second half. How exactly we deserved something from that game I don’t know, we gave up a 2 goals lead.
has anyone tally how many mishaps/goals have occurred since we played this type of "pivot" angeball..?
- is there an advantage playing it so consistently? (other than the oomph factor )
Inquiring mind would like to know
- is there an advantage playing it so consistently? (other than the oomph factor )
Inquiring mind would like to know
Anyway it seems to boil down to stupid mistakes by our defence (I still can't forgive Bambi for that Carrierb
Explain why
Get with the program Brian you are not allowed to quote the table after only 9 games according to GeekoAll interesting but the most important one is here
Played 9 won 4 drawn 1 lost 4 - eighth and bang fucking average
Premier League Table and Standings - Football - BBC Sport
Find out which football teams are leading the pack or at the foot of the table in the Premier League on BBC Sportwww.bbc.co.uk
Which I as a gnarled old cvnt find ironic as all I hear from the Angelistas is about the first ten games last season.
Last edited:
Because it's ONLY 9 games into a 38 game season!!!! eg there is only 6pts separating teams 3rd to 12th! 6 point swings can happen in a very short period of time (easily in achieved across just 4 games). Fixating on the table now is utterly pointless, just focus on how the teams are playing. The table tends to reveal itself post-Christmas/new year.
xG Creation Index...
I started looking at this on the Maddison thread but have extended it. Basically it's the sum of the xG's of all of the shots that a player has been involved in, as shooter, assist or secondary assist. The only thing I don't count is the penalty taker for penalties, since they weren't involved in "creating" the chance. I do count whoever won the penalty, and whoever passed it to them.
All the underlying data is published on fbref but they don't do a total, so here it is:
Top 30 from the EPL last season:
It reads like a bit of a who's who which suggests it's a pretty useful stat. Not too many surprises, thought Rodri might be a bit higher.
Top 50 from the "Big 5" leagues last season:
Spurs last season (minimum 500 minutes played):
Spurs this season (9 rounds in, minimum 300 minutes played):
EPL top 20 this season so far:
I started looking at this on the Maddison thread but have extended it. Basically it's the sum of the xG's of all of the shots that a player has been involved in, as shooter, assist or secondary assist. The only thing I don't count is the penalty taker for penalties, since they weren't involved in "creating" the chance. I do count whoever won the penalty, and whoever passed it to them.
All the underlying data is published on fbref but they don't do a total, so here it is:
Top 30 from the EPL last season:
| Player | xGC | 90’s | xGC/90 |
| Mohamed Salah | 38.75 | 28.2 | 1.38 |
| Cole Palmer | 36.53 | 29.0 | 1.26 |
| Ollie Watkins | 34.52 | 35.7 | 0.97 |
| Erling Haaland | 34.05 | 28.4 | 1.20 |
| Anthony Gordon | 33.93 | 32.1 | 1.06 |
| Bukayo Saka | 31.98 | 32.4 | 0.99 |
| Nicolas Jackson | 31.97 | 31.1 | 1.03 |
| Alexander Isak | 29.82 | 25.1 | 1.19 |
| Bruno Fernandes | 29.30 | 34.6 | 0.85 |
| Martin Odegaard | 29.10 | 34.3 | 0.85 |
| Darwin Nunez | 28.46 | 22.7 | 1.25 |
| Phil Foden | 28.39 | 31.7 | 0.89 |
| Luis Diaz | 28.21 | 29.2 | 0.97 |
| Son Heung-min | 28.16 | 32.6 | 0.86 |
| Julian Alvarez | 25.81 | 29.4 | 0.88 |
| Dominic Solanke | 25.17 | 36.9 | 0.68 |
| Kai Havertz | 24.19 | 29.3 | 0.83 |
| James Maddison | 23.94 | 23.7 | 1.01 |
| Morgan Gibbs-White | 23.85 | 35.1 | 0.68 |
| Bruno Guimaraes | 22.65 | 36.3 | 0.62 |
| Jarrod Bowen | 22.28 | 33.5 | 0.66 |
| Alejandro Garnacho | 21.94 | 28.5 | 0.77 |
| Leon Bailey | 21.77 | 23.0 | 0.95 |
| Brennan Johnson | 21.64 | 23.2 | 0.93 |
| Joao Pedro | 21.33 | 22.7 | 0.94 |
| Rodri | 20.96 | 32.6 | 0.64 |
| Pascal Gross | 20.87 | 34.6 | 0.60 |
| Dejan Kulusevski | 20.51 | 30.7 | 0.67 |
| James Ward-Prowse | 20.38 | 33.3 | 0.61 |
| Yoane Wissa | 19.93 | 27.7 | 0.72 |
It reads like a bit of a who's who which suggests it's a pretty useful stat. Not too many surprises, thought Rodri might be a bit higher.
Top 50 from the "Big 5" leagues last season:
Player | xGC | 90s | xGC_90 | League |
| Mohamed Salah | 38.75 | 28.2 | 1.38 | EPL |
| Harry Kane | 38.63 | 31.54 | 1.22 | Bundesliga |
| Cole Palmer | 36.53 | 29.0 | 1.26 | EPL |
| Ollie Watkins | 34.52 | 35.7 | 0.97 | EPL |
| Erling Haaland | 34.05 | 28.4 | 1.20 | EPL |
| Anthony Gordon | 33.93 | 32.1 | 1.06 | EPL |
| Kylian Mbappe | 33.20 | 23.98 | 1.38 | Ligue 1 |
| Serhou Guirassy | 32.42 | 24.53 | 1.32 | Bundesliga |
| Bukayo Saka | 31.98 | 32.4 | 0.99 | EPL |
| Nicolas Jackson | 31.97 | 31.1 | 1.03 | EPL |
| Lois Openda | 31.86 | 29.97 | 1.06 | Bundesliga |
| Leroy Sane | 31.67 | 23.74 | 1.33 | Bundesliga |
| Rafael Leao | 31.43 | 27.91 | 1.13 | Serie A |
| Deniz Undav | 31.08 | 23.21 | 1.34 | Bundesliga |
| Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang | 30.59 | 29.13 | 1.05 | Ligue 1 |
| Alexander Isak | 29.82 | 25.1 | 1.19 | EPL |
| Bruno Fernandes | 29.30 | 34.6 | 0.85 | EPL |
| Marcus Thuram | 29.16 | 29.86 | 0.98 | Serie A |
| Martin Odegaard | 29.10 | 34.3 | 0.85 | EPL |
| Darwin Nunez | 28.46 | 22.7 | 1.25 | EPL |
| Iago Aspas | 28.39 | 30.08 | 0.94 | La Liga |
| Phil Foden | 28.39 | 31.7 | 0.89 | EPL |
| Luis Diaz | 28.21 | 29.2 | 0.97 | EPL |
| Son Heung-min | 28.16 | 32.6 | 0.86 | EPL |
| Artem Dovbyk | 27.73 | 28.74 | 0.96 | La Liga |
| Khvicha Kvaratskhelia | 27.68 | 30.41 | 0.91 | Serie A |
| Xavi Simons | 27.18 | 29.48 | 0.92 | Bundesliga |
| Lautaro Martinez | 26.80 | 29.51 | 0.91 | Serie A |
| Alex Baena | 26.59 | 28.66 | 0.93 | La Liga |
| Nico Williams | 26.49 | 25.14 | 1.05 | La Liga |
| Donyell Malen | 26.01 | 19.79 | 1.31 | Bundesliga |
| Julian Alvarez | 25.81 | 29.4 | 0.88 | EPL |
| Florian Wirtz | 25.76 | 26.36 | 0.98 | Bundesliga |
| Jonathan David | 25.65 | 29.21 | 0.88 | Ligue 1 |
| Jonas Hofmann | 25.39 | 24.49 | 1.04 | Bundesliga |
| Dominic Solanke | 25.17 | 36.9 | 0.68 | EPL |
| Robert Lewandowski | 24.92 | 30.56 | 0.82 | La Liga |
| Nicolo Barella | 24.89 | 31.62 | 0.79 | Serie A |
| Savio | 24.85 | 33.07 | 0.75 | La Liga |
| Ilkay Gundogan | 24.23 | 33.27 | 0.73 | La Liga |
| Kai Havertz | 24.19 | 29.3 | 0.83 | EPL |
| Alexander Sorloth | 24.07 | 27.66 | 0.87 | La Liga |
| Chris Fuhrich | 23.97 | 28.52 | 0.84 | Bundesliga |
| Jamal Musiala | 23.95 | 19.50 | 1.23 | Bundesliga |
| James Maddison | 23.94 | 23.7 | 1.01 | EPL |
| Rodrygo | 23.85 | 26.44 | 0.90 | La Liga |
| Morgan Gibbs-White | 23.85 | 35.1 | 0.68 | EPL |
| Marvin Ducksch | 23.43 | 29.96 | 0.78 | Bundesliga |
| Vinicius Junior | 23.40 | 20.71 | 1.13 | La Liga |
| Antoine Griezmann | 22.78 | 29.38 | 0.78 | La Liga |
Spurs last season (minimum 500 minutes played):
| Player | xGC | 90s | xGC_90 |
| Son Heung-min | 28.16 | 32.6 | 0.86 |
| James Maddison | 23.94 | 23.7 | 1.01 |
| Brennan Johnson | 21.64 | 23.2 | 0.93 |
| Dejan Kulusevski | 20.51 | 30.7 | 0.67 |
| Pedro Porro | 16.70 | 34.3 | 0.49 |
| Richarlison | 13.22 | 16.6 | 0.80 |
| Timo Werner | 9.50 | 9.0 | 1.06 |
| Pape Matar Sarr | 8.91 | 23.0 | 0.39 |
| Destiny Udogie | 8.68 | 26.6 | 0.33 |
| Cristian Romero | 6.74 | 31.0 | 0.22 |
| Rodrigo Bentancur | 5.92 | 11.2 | 0.53 |
| Yves Bissouma | 5.56 | 23.0 | 0.24 |
| Pierre Hojbjerg | 4.91 | 14.6 | 0.34 |
| Ben Davies | 4.28 | 12.1 | 0.35 |
| Giovani Lo Celso | 3.51 | 5.6 | 0.62 |
| Emerson | 2.71 | 12.9 | 0.21 |
| Oliver Skipp | 2.05 | 7.9 | 0.26 |
| Micky van de Ven | 1.52 | 26.0 | 0.06 |
| Guglielmo Vicario | 0.38 | 38.0 | 0.01 |
Spurs this season (9 rounds in, minimum 300 minutes played):
| Player | xGC | 90s | xGC_90 |
| James Maddison | 7.40 | 7.4 | 1.00 |
| Dominic Solanke | 6.08 | 6.9 | 0.89 |
| Son Heung-min | 5.44 | 5.8 | 0.94 |
| Dejan Kulusevski | 5.32 | 7.5 | 0.71 |
| Brennan Johnson | 5.21 | 7.7 | 0.68 |
| Destiny Udogie | 3.05 | 8.3 | 0.37 |
| Cristian Romero | 2.79 | 9.0 | 0.31 |
| Pedro Porro | 2.47 | 9.0 | 0.28 |
| Micky van de Ven | 1.82 | 7.9 | 0.23 |
| Rodrigo Bentancur | 1.60 | 4.4 | 0.36 |
| Yves Bissouma | 0.98 | 4.0 | 0.25 |
| Guglielmo Vicario | 0.32 | 9.0 | 0.04 |
EPL top 20 this season so far:
| Rank | Player | 2023/24 Rank | xGC | 90s | xGC_90 |
| 1 | Mohamed Salah | 1 | 10.52 | 8.7 | 1.21 |
| 2 | Cole Palmer | 2 | 10.08 | 8.6 | 1.17 |
| 3 | Erling Haaland | 4 | 9.67 | 9.0 | 1.08 |
| 4 | Nicolas Jackson | 7 | 9.01 | 7.7 | 1.18 |
| 5 | Bukayo Saka | 6 | 8.80 | 7.2 | 1.22 |
| 6 | Kai Havertz | 17 | 7.61 | 9.0 | 0.85 |
| 7 | Savio | (Girona) | 7.41 | 5.0 | 1.47 |
| 8 | James Maddison | 18 | 7.40 | 7.4 | 1.00 |
| 9 | Bruno Fernandes | 9 | 7.05 | 8.3 | 0.85 |
| 10 | Adama Traore | 279 | 6.96 | 7.7 | 0.91 |
| 11 | Luis Diaz | 13 | 6.85 | 5.9 | 1.16 |
| 12 | Antoine Semenyo | 73 | 6.51 | 8.7 | 0.74 |
| 13 | Eberechi Eze | 32 | 6.26 | 9.0 | 0.70 |
| 14 | Danny Welbeck | 68 | 6.16 | 8.3 | 0.74 |
| 15 | Dominic Solanke | 16 | 6.08 | 6.9 | 0.89 |
| 16 | Marcus Tavernier | 63 | 6.07 | 7.7 | 0.79 |
| 17 | Michail Antonio | 120 | 6.00 | 6.2 | 0.97 |
| 18 | Ollie Watkins | 3 | 5.79 | 7.6 | 0.76 |
| 19 | Harvey Barnes | 137 | 5.76 | 5.3 | 1.08 |
| 20 | Morgan Rogers | 5.72 | 8.2 | 0.69 |
Last edited:
That’s excellent work again.
Reinforces the theory about the actual viability and productiveness of Kulusevski, especially visa vi the Maddison v Kulusevski debate.
This is especially informative, when you consider how much harder Maddison works at making himself available to get on the ball, and also tracking back in defensive transitions.
We have a number of players that suit a low block (defensively) and a counter attacking stance. Ben Davies for example is probably a better low block LCB than VdV. Similar for Dragusin and Romero. Players like Udogie, Kulusevski, Sarr, Solanke, Johnson, Werner, and Son are all better with space to run into on the counter after a transition. We saw this against Man City in the second half when we looked both solid defensively and dangerous on the break - creating 4 really good chances. Will be interesting to see how much of that was by design and how much was by necessity in the coming weeks.
The Prem dominates Europe, massively in attacking metrics, 7 of the top 10.
Makes it clear the higher number of games and intensity here is what holds Prem teams back from utter domination (attacking wise at least).
Semenyo and Tavernier reflects highly on Iraola being a hugely promising coach.
Can you be arsed to do a defensive one?