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History The Greatest Ever Spurs Team 2.0

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Kid Chameleon

In 1989, Terry Venables did a video called The Greatest Ever Spurs Team where he picked a first XI from all the players in the club's history. The film is available on YT:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKB9wtKcLlU

Venables went with a 4-3-3 with Ditchburn in goal, Ramsey, England, Mackay and Knowells in defence, Burgess, Blanchflower and Hoddle in midfield and Greaves, Chivers and Jones in attack.

The thing that strikes me with this team choice is that in the 38 years between Arthur Rowe's 1951 team and the production of this video, there aren't many players beyond the Bill Nick years that are in realistic contention of making the team (Glenn Hoddle is the only player from the 80s who made it). If we compare that to the 34 years between this video and today, we have so many players who would need to be discussed for possible inclusion in the team:

Paul Gascoigne (Tel refused to consider him at the time because he was too new)
Teddy Sheringham
Jurgen Klinsmann
Darren Anderton
David Ginola
Ledley King
Dimitar Berbatov
Luka Modric
Gareth Bale
Harry Kane
Hueng-Min Son
Christian Eriksen
Jan Vertonghen
Toby Alderweireld
Hugo Lloris
Kyle Walker
Jermain Defoe
Rafael Van der Vaart

I'm thinking that it's still possible for Terry Venables to do another Greatest Spurs XI that takes the past 34 years into account. The days of VHS (or even DVD) are gone but I could see someone like Alasdair Gold or Chris Cowlin having an interview with him and posting it on YT. It could even be done with Michael Dawson through the official Spurs podcast.

What do you guys think? I wouldn't know where to begin in terms of who to ask to get something like this done but I think it's something that's worth doing. Terry Venables is one of the few people left who can remember players from the 50s and it's unlikely that we'll ever have another manager so steeped in the club's history. Tel turned 80 in January of this year so there may not be much time left for him to do it.
 
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It's so hard to build an all time great XI nowadays tbh, right up to the 90s when the money came flooding in it was like an entirely different sport, do you measure up an XI like that on pure individual talent, in which case the likes of Bale, Modric, Kane have to be in the starting XI because they're easily 3 of the best footballers we've ever had here on individual ability, or do you have to factor in what they achieved at the club? Because if that is the case, I don't think you can really have any modern great players in there barring maybe Ledley King, on account of him being a 1 club man, supremely talented, and actually won a cup. I guess the fairest way to consider something like this is to see what would have become of players like Jimmy Greaves and Martin Chivers if they'd been born in 1996 and had access to the diet, training facilities and radically different football culture of the modern day, are they THEN better players than the likes of Kane or Bale?
 
Kid Chameleon said:
In 1989, Terry Venables did a video called The Greatest Ever Spurs Team where he picked a first XI from all the players in the club's history. The film is available on YT:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKB9wtKcLlU

Venables went with a 4-3-3 with Ditchburn in goal, Ramsey, England, Mackay and Knowells in defence, Burgess, Blanchflower and Hoddle in midfield and Greaves, Chivers and Jones in attack.

The thing that strikes me with this team choice is that in the 38 years between Arthur Rowe's 1951 team and the production of this video, there aren't many players beyond the Bill Nick years that are in realistic contention of making the team (Glenn Hoddle is the only player from the 80s who made it). If we compare that to the 34 years between this video and today, we have so many players who would need to be discussed for possible inclusion in the team:

Paul Gascoigne (Tel refused to consider him at the time because he was too new)
Teddy Sheringham
Jurgen Klinsmann
Darren Anderton
David Ginola
Ledley King
Dimitar Berbatov
Luka Modric
Gareth Bale
Harry Kane
Hueng-Min Son
Christian Eriksen
Jan Vertonghen
Toby Alderweireld
Hugo Lloris
Kyle Walker
Jermain Defoe
Rafael Van der Vaart

I'm thinking that it's still possible for Terry Venables to do another Greatest Spurs XI that takes the past 34 years into account. The days of VHS (or even DVD) are gone but I could see someone like Alasdair Gold or Chris Cowlin having an interview with him and posting it on YT. It could even be done with Michael Dawson through the official Spurs podcast.

What do you guys think? I wouldn't know where to begin in terms of who to ask to get something like this done but I think it's something that's worth doing. Terry Venables is one of the few people left who can remember players from the 50s and it's unlikely that we'll ever have another manager so steeped in the club's history. Tel turned 80 in January of this year so there may not be much time left for him to do it.
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I'd watch.....

As for others pre-90s/post-Bill....

P.Jennings
R.Clemence
Ossie
S.Perryman
G.Mabbutt
C,Waddle
C.Allen
 
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Mostly wrong said:
It's so hard to build an all time great XI nowadays tbh, right up to the 90s when the money came flooding in it was like an entirely different sport, do you measure up an XI like that on pure individual talent, in which case the likes of Bale, Modric, Kane have to be in the starting XI because they're easily 3 of the best footballers we've ever had here on individual ability, or do you have to factor in what they achieved at the club? Because if that is the case, I don't think you can really have any modern great players in there barring maybe Ledley King, on account of him being a 1 club man, supremely talented, and actually won a cup. I guess the fairest way to consider something like this is to see what would have become of players like Jimmy Greaves and Martin Chivers if they'd been born in 1996 and had access to the diet, training facilities and radically different football culture of the modern day, are they THEN better players than the likes of Kane or Bale?
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Tel based his team on the quality of football he believed they would achieve together as a unit. I think Kane would walk into that 4-3-3 ahead of Chivers to the point that there is no real discussion in the comparison and Bale would definitely give Cliff Jones a run for his money on the left. Tel seems to have gone for Greaves in the right attacking slot because of his extreme pace and ability to slip past players on the turn - not a conventional right-sided forward by any stretch of the imagination but you can definitely see the potential in his game.

Based on Greaves's reputation for drinking, bad diet and ducking training, there is a case to say that he wouldn't have made it as a pro in today's game. It certainly caught up with him later in his playing career. I think it all comes down to what they did as players on the pitch and there are some disadvantages to the good old days like the muddy pitches, the medicine balls they used to play with and the altogether more physical game.
 
Jennings
Walker Alderweireld Vertonghen Knowles
Hoddle Dembele Modric
Bale Kane Son

Subs: Lloris, Mabbutt, King, Mackay, Gascoigne, Eriksen, Jones, Sheringham, Defoe

That would be my "all-time" matchday squad.
 
Let's make it an ALL TIME BLOATED SQUAD!

3 players for every position...
33 names....
How hard can it be...?

Get back to me... I'm still thinking!
 
Harry Kane and 10 others.
Jimmy Greaves
Paul Gascoigne
Gareth Bale
Luka Modric
Dave Mackay
Ledley King.
Jan Vertonghen
Kyle Walker
Cyril Knowles
Pat Jennings
Bench: Brad, Bill, Ray, Teddy, Sonny, Jurgen, Ossie, French Dave, Toby, Dimitar, Christian, Glenn, White, Gary, Gary, Maurice, Terry, Allen, Allen.... loads of 'em.
 
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Kid Chameleon said:
Paul Gascoigne (Tel refused to consider him at the time because he was too new)
Teddy Sheringham
Jurgen Klinsmann
Darren Anderton
David Ginola
Ledley King
Dimitar Berbatov
Luka Modric
Gareth Bale
Harry Kane
Hueng-Min Son
Christian Eriksen
Jan Vertonghen
Toby Alderweireld
Hugo Lloris
Kyle Walker
Jermain Defoe
Rafael Van der Vaart
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Teddy, Anderton, , Berba, Eriksen, Defoe wouldn’t get close to a Spurs Greatest XI.
Klinsmann and VdV wouldn’t be considered based on their Spurs careers. Modric and Walker arguably too.

Multiple examples of recency bias.
Can anyone really argue that Teddy and Eriksen were better than Ozzie and Big Chiv?
 
NotThatTedHughes said:
Teddy, Anderton, , Berba, Eriksen, Defoe wouldn’t get close to a Spurs Greatest XI.
Klinsmann and VdV wouldn’t be considered based on their Spurs careers. Modric and Walker arguably too.

Multiple examples of recency bias.
Can anyone really argue that Teddy and Eriksen were better than Ozzie and Big Chiv?
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1) It would depend on the type of team that the manager wanted to go for and how well the players would work together which is how Terry Venables picked the team discussed in the video. There is much discussion to be had with the specific attributes of individual players - including players that don't actually make the team.

2) Klinsmann played the best club football of his career with us. VDV had two excellent seasons with us.

3) Sheringham had much more technical ability than Chivers and was a great creator of goals as well as a marksman. In terms of player combinations, only Kane and Son have created more goals for Tottenham in the Premier League era than Sheringham and Anderton. They had a special understanding and made a mark on Premier League history in much less time than Kane and Son.

4) I never said Eriksen was better than Ardiles or even made any comparison between the two players. I merely observed that Glenn Hoddle was the only player from the 80s that made Terry Venables's team and that there were more players from the last 30 years that would challenge the players from the Bill Nick era and earlier.

5) I feel Berbatov is worthy of discussion because of how little time he needed on the ball to do something with it. Kane generally needs a few touches before he has effective control but with Berbatov that ball was already in the possession of another player or in the back of the net. This is not to say that Berbatov was a better player than Kane overall - just a specific attribute I feel he had.

6) There was no player better at coming up with goals when they were needed than Jermain Defoe. He was our Ole Gunnar Solskjaer (the player, not the crap manager!).
 
English candidates:

GK: Ray Clemence, Ted Ditchburn,

LB: Danny Rose, Cyril Knowles,
CB: Ledley King, Sol Campbell,
RB: Kyle Walker, Alf Ramsey,

DM: Michael Carrick, Gary Mabbutt, Steve Perryman, Alan Mullery,
CM: Terry Venables,
OM: Paul Gascoigne, Glenn Hoddle, Martin Peters, Dele Alli,

CF: Harry Kane, Teddy Sheringham, Gary Lineker, Clive Allen, Martin Chivers, Jimmy Graves, Bobby Smith, Gareth Crooks,
WF: Chris Waddle
 
Scottish, Welsh & Irish candidates

Bill Brown
(Richard Gough)
Dave MacKay
(Greame Souness)
John White
Steve Archibald
Alan Gilzean

Mel Hopkins
Mike England
Ron Burgess
Cliff Jones
Terry Medwin
Garth Bale

Pat Jennings
Joe Kinnear
Danny Blanchflower
Robbie Keane
 
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Kid Chameleon said:
the Premier League era
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That about sums up your post.
Recency bias.

VdV had two good seasons with us and Klinsmann half that. His best season was, arguably, his first at Monaco if not earlier but that’s tangential.

Tony Galvin, Chris Waddle and Steve Archibald were more successful and had greater longevity for Tottenham. Chris Hughton was our best left back since Knowles. Perryman and Mabbutt had far better Spurs careers than either Klinsmann or VdV.

You never said Eriksen was better than Ardiles but by considering that former for Spurs greatest team and not the latter, you heavily implied it.

Chivers scored more goals for Spurs than either Teddy or Defoe. Bobby Smith was better than all of them. Lineker and Clive Allen — one immortal season — arguably as good.

I doubt that Anderton, Defoe nor Sherringham would get near a Tottenham XI.
 
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