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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
sudoku said:
If you take away Frank's first 10 games.

P 8 W 2 D 1 L 5 .
Points 7.
Points per game .875
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AberdeenYid said:
I always love a “stat” that removes games you just don’t want to include as it fucks up your argument. Let’s see one with Ange’s first 10 games included please? Unless there’s a viable reason for not including them that doesn’t rhyme with Bagenda.
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The issue is that the first 10 games were an anomaly and heavily pad out the other 90% of his games.

It's not like dissecting the middle of his era - those first games and the style also heavily skewed (and continue to do so) the view of his time here, when it was really a very brief period of other teams not having sussed out that he was playing suicidal football you could simply counter
 
CJJ said:
It isn't really an argument of whether Frank is "the one" for me, it's the preposterous idea that is regularly put forward that it was a mistake to get rid of Postecoglou, or to bring him back. That seems to be the narrative that is used to criticise Frank, when by all means we could put a baked potato in charge and be better off managerially
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I don’t think it was a mistake to get rid of Ange , I’m also grateful that he was able to win us a trophy , which apparently doesn’t mean much as it was just “the ropey league” probably down to the fact we have won shit loads of trophies the last 17 years .
I also don’t think TF is anything other than a Mid table manager , and even though the PL football last season was shit it ultimately led to one of the best nights I have had supporting spurs so I will always be grateful for that , and I’m not the kind of cunt that would discredit the manager in achieving
That , something Poch, Jose and Conte failed to do, however with TF I just don’t see him ever being anything more than a mid table manager , maybe he will surprise us all though and win a trophy and cement himself in our History.
 
CJJ said:
It isn't really an argument of whether Frank is "the one" for me, it's the preposterous idea that is regularly put forward that it was a mistake to get rid of Postecoglou, or to bring him back. That seems to be the narrative that is used to criticise Frank, when by all means we could put a baked potato in charge and be better off managerially
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100%.

Frank has offered little to suggest he was the right pick but replacing the previous manager should not have any right-thinking Spurs fan in despair.

The necessity of change could not have been more clear, and much as the club needs stability I don't think we are necessarily too far from requiring another managerial appointment.
 
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Ive made this point before, but here's why Im Frank Out - just sit and consider:

What does a peak Thomas Frank Spurs team look like?

Think that through, and I think its hard to justify him being in the job another day, let alone all the "give him time" comments.

Franks football comes from a place of inferiority. Never the strengths of his own team, but worrying about the strengths of the opposition. He doesnt want the ball in the middle of the pitch. He doesnt really want his team to have the ball at all. He wants to counter, spam crosses, and win corners.

He has had a full preseason and half a season of football to imprint his ideas on the team, and watching Spurs right now its hard to even say what those ideas are in terms of team structure / shape / intentions.

Id forgive things not working if I could see what he was aiming for.

As it is, we seem to be more an absence of ideas than ideas failing.

What do we do? We refuse to pass the ball forward through the lines, we refuse to pass forward generally - preferring a safer side or backwards pass. We go long when this runs out of steam. We try to attack only via the wings, but those wingers are rarely supported properly. We isolate our forwards, who are really only there to get on the end of crosses/corners/throws.

There is very little footballing identity at all, and at this stage, for me, that tells the whole story.

Peak Frank, IMO, is likely a poor facsimilie of Peak Mourinho. Low block, defensively resolute, dont want the ball, a bunch of runners waiting to pounce on opposition errors/transitions. I think the brutal reality is if Frank does the job as well as he possibly can - itll never be proper Spurs.


EDIT: That aside, his continued comments about 17th, about it being such a big repair job, about things needing time - all the gaslighting - really grinds my gears. I dont have to like the manager, but it certainly helps, especially in periods where things arent going well
 
Saw a comment in the match thread I think, Glasner will go elsewhere and Frank will replace him - and I just thought that was so perfect.

It sums it up perfectly (I should have gone with this instead of the wordy post)
 
Think Brentford is a huge game for Frank

There will be some confidence to build on from the points at Palace. If he’s brave with his team selection, he could send them out there with the confidence to really go at them. Odobert looks like he’s in form, give him a start and see what happens. Maybe move Kudus into the 10 so we can play through the middle.

Sidebar: Cochrane came in with loads of fuss but he’s our attacking coach. Every week we play like a bunch of Strangers who have no clue where or next pass is. Is that Frank’s system? Or is Cochrane a load of hot air and fake hype?
 
CJJ said:
It isn't really an argument of whether Frank is "the one" for me, it's the preposterous idea that is regularly put forward that it was a mistake to get rid of Postecoglou, or to bring him back. That seems to be the narrative that is used to criticise Frank, when by all means we could put a baked potato in charge and be better off managerially
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Give me the baked potato... at least we'll play out of skins!!!

Bryan Cranston Mic Drop GIF
 
postbox said:
Ive made this point before, but here's why Im Frank Out - just sit and consider:

What does a peak Thomas Frank Spurs team look like?

Think that through, and I think its hard to justify him being in the job another day, let alone all the "give him time" comments.

Franks football comes from a place of inferiority. Never the strengths of his own team, but worrying about the strengths of the opposition. He doesnt want the ball in the middle of the pitch. He doesnt really want his team to have the ball at all. He wants to counter, spam crosses, and win corners.

He has had a full preseason and half a season of football to imprint his ideas on the team, and watching Spurs right now its hard to even say what those ideas are in terms of team structure / shape / intentions.

Id forgive things not working if I could see what he was aiming for.

As it is, we seem to be more an absence of ideas than ideas failing.

What do we do? We refuse to pass the ball forward through the lines, we refuse to pass forward generally - preferring a safer side or backwards pass. We go long when this runs out of steam. We try to attack only via the wings, but those wingers are rarely supported properly. We isolate our forwards, who are really only there to get on the end of crosses/corners/throws.

There is very little footballing identity at all, and at this stage, for me, that tells the whole story.

Peak Frank, IMO, is likely a poor facsimilie of Peak Mourinho. Low block, defensively resolute, dont want the ball, a bunch of runners waiting to pounce on opposition errors/transitions. I think the brutal reality is if Frank does the job as well as he possibly can - itll never be proper Spurs.


EDIT: That aside, his continued comments about 17th, about it being such a big repair job, about things needing time - all the gaslighting - really grinds my gears. I dont have to like the manager, but it certainly helps, especially in periods where things arent going well
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Nice read. Yes what does peak any manager look like, through the eyes of objectivity? Not enough in relation to Frank.

Nobody is asking him to come out with nonsensical we will win the league in 2 seasons, but 17th was last season. It was history and it was huge underachievement in that regard. Not a fcuking barometer to be judged against.
 
CJJ said:
It isn't really an argument of whether Frank is "the one" for me, it's the preposterous idea that is regularly put forward that it was a mistake to get rid of Postecoglou, or to bring him back. That seems to be the narrative that is used to criticise Frank, when by all means we could put a baked potato in charge and be better off managerially
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Straw man argument. There is a poll on this very forum asking that very question which has Postecoglou at 8%.

You're tilting at windmills and it's getting wearisome.
 
Notabadsquad said:
100%.

Frank has offered little to suggest he was the right pick but replacing the previous manager should not have any right thinking Spurs fan in despair.

The necessity of change could not have been more clear, and much as the club needs stability I don't think we are necessarily too far from requiring another managerial appointment.
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The whole ange cult thing is like one giant strawman. Even in the last page, you can't bring up what a useless manager he was without someone going "but the Europa League".

Someone even said the other day that we played well in that final ffs.

(following bit is not 'you' you, but the people reading)

Even if Frank lost every game 10-0 all season, it wouldn't mean it was a mistake to get rid of the last guy. No event would. Similarly, no event would justify him returning, ever.
People need to get over that and stop lauding a scruffy cup run as some kind of turning of the tides.

Yes, we won a trophy. We had one shot on target. Their keeper made no saves in the entire game. The second half, we had no shots. None at all. No corners. 35% possession all game. Those are the statistics that make up a fact.
If that was "the greatest night" of your spurs supporting life, good for you - but it was a terrible game of football.

You can admit that we had one of our worst managers in recent history, and a worse performance that we've shown all season so far, and yet not be lambasted as "not a real spurs fan". It's actually embarrassing to be cheerleading last season in that way, because we were a scuffed half-shot away from being beaten in a final by the worse man utd team for decades.
 
CJJ said:
The whole ange cult thing is like one giant strawman. Even in the last page, you can't bring up what a useless manager he was without someone going "but the Europa League".

Someone even said the other day that we played well in that final ffs.

Even if Frank lost every game 10-0 all season, it wouldn't mean it was a mistake to get rid of the last guy. No event would. Similarly, no event would justify him returning, ever.
People need to get over that and stop lauding a scruffy cup run as some kind of turning of the tides.

Yes, we won a trophy. We had one shot on target. Their keeper made no saves in the entire game. The second half, we had no shots. Not at all. No corners. 35% possession all game. Those are the statistics that make up a fact.
If that was "the greatest night" of your spurs supporting life, good for you - but it was a terrible game of football.

You can admit that we had one of our worst managers in recent history, and a worse performance that we've shown all season so far, and yet not be lambasted as "not a real spurs fan". It's actually embarrassing to be cheerleading last season in that way, because we were a scuffed half-shot away from being beaten in a final by the worse man utd team for decades.
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvLj3Z35yQ8

You don't live here no more, Rodney.
 
CJJ said:
The issue is that the first 10 games were an anomaly and heavily pad out the other 90% of his games.

It's not like dissecting the middle of his era - those first games and the style also heavily skewed (and continue to do so) the view of his time here, when it was really a very brief period of other teams not having sussed out that he was playing suicidal football you could simply counter
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Man, that’s fucking gibberish. Really poor show from you.

One of the most dishonest arguments I’ve seen on here and that’s up against some strong competition.

Post stats if you will, but don’t cherry pick. You’re already just getting laugh emojis for this post. People aren’t taking you seriously. And they are right not to.
 
AberdeenYid said:
Man, that’s fucking gibberish. Really poor show from you.

One of the most dishonest arguments I’ve seen on here and that’s up against some strong competition.

Post stats if you will, but don’t cherry pick. You’re already just getting laugh emojis for this post. People aren’t taking you seriously. And they are right not to.
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It's not - we suffered 2 full seasons of him, and all but the first 10 games show that it was terrible form.

The reason for it is because the person who started this whole thread claimed it was only "the last 6 months", when it was the last 91 games. People have consistently said "but we finished 5th" to suggest, overall, the first season was on par for us. But it wasn't, because the first 10 games were a huge anomoly.

What it means is that there was no 'bad patch', there was no peaks/troughs - it was consistently flat for nearly 2 seasons.

Answer me this: why the denial? How is it a dishonest argument if it is founded statistically?
 
CJJ said:
It's not - we suffered 2 full seasons of him, and all but the first 10 games show that it was terrible form.

The reason for it is because the person who started this whole thread claimed it was only "the last 6 months", when it was the last 91 games. People have consistently said "but we finished 5th" to suggest, overall, the first season was on par for us. But it wasn't, because the first 10 games were a huge anomoly.

What it means is that there was no 'bad patch', there was no peaks/troughs - it was consistently flat for nearly 2 seasons.

Answer me this: why the denial? How is it a dishonest argument if it is founded statistically?
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Enough, already.
In the name of Jesus take this to the Ange thread.
He ain't our manager no more.
I don't want to put you on ignore.
 
CJJ said:
The whole ange cult thing is like one giant strawman. Even in the last page, you can't bring up what a useless manager he was without someone going "but the Europa League".

Someone even said the other day that we played well in that final ffs.

(following bit is not 'you' you, but the people reading)

Even if Frank lost every game 10-0 all season, it wouldn't mean it was a mistake to get rid of the last guy. No event would. Similarly, no event would justify him returning, ever.
People need to get over that and stop lauding a scruffy cup run as some kind of turning of the tides.

Yes, we won a trophy. We had one shot on target. Their keeper made no saves in the entire game. The second half, we had no shots. None at all. No corners. 35% possession all game. Those are the statistics that make up a fact.
If that was "the greatest night" of your spurs supporting life, good for you - but it was a terrible game of football.

You can admit that we had one of our worst managers in recent history, and a worse performance that we've shown all season so far, and yet not be lambasted as "not a real spurs fan". It's actually embarrassing to be cheerleading last season in that way, because we were a scuffed half-shot away from being beaten in a final by the worse man utd team for decades.
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Completely Deranged and obsessive.

You can't stop talking about him. Do you want me to make a list of every post you mention him in? Fuck me... seek help.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Think Brentford is a huge game for Frank

There will be some confidence to build on from the points at Palace. If he’s brave with his team selection, he could send them out there with the confidence to really go at them. Odobert looks like he’s in form, give him a start and see what happens. Maybe move Kudus into the 10 so we can play through the middle.

Sidebar: Cochrane came in with loads of fuss but he’s our attacking coach. Every week we play like a bunch of Strangers who have no clue where or next pass is. Is that Frank’s system? Or is Cochrane a load of hot air and fake hype?
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Been saying since Liverpool Sunderland is the one for me, depending on Palace/Brentford.

First home game in a few - if the run is bad the fans will have the chance to voice their feelings.

I quite expected a loss against Palace, and while Im delighted with 3 points I wonder if the performance is appreciated.

Brentford just didnt turn up against us the other week, they were very poor - but they are strong at home. And Shade running off Porro will be a worry. So Im not exactly confident in a result there.
 
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