He's still here then?
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Manager Thomas Frank
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
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Winning the every third game to finish 10th with a GD of 0 to officially become the most average team in the league is still the most probable outcome under the current trajectory.
It's not very relevant how congested the table is right now; we'll still need to reach a certain threshold of points to achieve a respectable finish at the end of the season. And if I had to pick a round number as that threshold, it would be 50.
Here are some data from the last decade regarding the whereabouts of teams that collected ≈ 50 points
15/16: Stoke and Chelsea got the 9th and the 10th places respectively with 51 and 50 points
16/17: Southampton managed to finish 8th with 46 points; but at the same time the remaining 7 teams all crossed the 60 mark
17/18: Everton finished 8th with 49 points; top 6 crossed the 60 mark
18/19:Watford finished 11th with 50 points
19/20: Everton finished 12th with 49 points
20/21: Even the 11th place Villa finished with 55 points. Brutal.
21/22: Every team inside top 10 crossed the 50 mark, with Newcastle with 49 points finishing just outside at 11th.
22/23: The same as above: Even the 9th place Brentford got 59 points. Fulham got the last spot inside top 10 with 52.
23/24 : Top 8 all reached the 60 mark. West Ham and Palace finished 9th and 10th respectively with 52 and 49.
24/25: 12 teams crossed the 50 mark, with the 13th place Everton also getting 48.
Bleak.
It's not very relevant how congested the table is right now; we'll still need to reach a certain threshold of points to achieve a respectable finish at the end of the season. And if I had to pick a round number as that threshold, it would be 50.
Here are some data from the last decade regarding the whereabouts of teams that collected ≈ 50 points
-------
15/16: Stoke and Chelsea got the 9th and the 10th places respectively with 51 and 50 points
16/17: Southampton managed to finish 8th with 46 points; but at the same time the remaining 7 teams all crossed the 60 mark
17/18: Everton finished 8th with 49 points; top 6 crossed the 60 mark
18/19:Watford finished 11th with 50 points
19/20: Everton finished 12th with 49 points
20/21: Even the 11th place Villa finished with 55 points. Brutal.
21/22: Every team inside top 10 crossed the 50 mark, with Newcastle with 49 points finishing just outside at 11th.
22/23: The same as above: Even the 9th place Brentford got 59 points. Fulham got the last spot inside top 10 with 52.
23/24 : Top 8 all reached the 60 mark. West Ham and Palace finished 9th and 10th respectively with 52 and 49.
24/25: 12 teams crossed the 50 mark, with the 13th place Everton also getting 48.
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50 is the exact pace we could be on tomorrow evening, and that's despite the fact that we're still overachieving our xG like no other team in any of the top leagues does right now.Bleak.
Richardson was the best character in Deadwood ill have you know
There's no validity in saying he cares about the club - he uses his association for exposure.
He's not being payed a bonus to benefit personally while fucking us up though is he?
He's not being payed a bonus to benefit personally while fucking us up though is he?
Is this another one of those "Daniel Levy occupies 90% of my brain" symptoms?
Don't get me wrong;
I was waking up in a cold sweat, remembering Vega's defending, for years after he left the club.
However;
I'd take him over your hero all day long.
Yeah, but we’re looking for him to start a fire and the club have given him two cocktail sticks to rub together!
I don't agree in the slightest amd what players do you think we should gabe bought that we didn't?
I think Frank has been poor to average so far and please don't tell me PL players an only play the way we have since he arrived.
I think we should have bought an oven ready LW rather than Tel and someone creative but built for the prem rather than Xavi.
Decent options in those two positions and I think we’re a very different proposition. The Maddison injury has severely hampered Frank IMHO.
No manager is coming here and doing a decent job with the squad as it stands.
Okay, well I think better managers than Frank at least make us look cohesive.
In addition if Frank hasn't got the players for his preferred system, adapt.
But to have to rely on set-pieces, truncated play and hoofs down the pitch are hardly the qualities I would expect from a PL manager.
So far not good enough, and the excuse of a paucity of resources doesn’t wash with me.
I think if a manager came in, got the team working as a unit - moving up the field together...
...some basic pass and move stuff
...work on some movements to create passing triangles so players are supported
...even our current squad could produce football far better than we are seeing.
Maddison 100% fit and on form would do very little in this team, because the set up just isnt for players who want to attack.
There are no runners. There is no sustained possession. There is a huge disconnect between attack and defence. Maddison would have no choice but to try holywood balls to Kudus/Richarlison or just pass back and sideways same as everyone else
...some basic pass and move stuff
...work on some movements to create passing triangles so players are supported
...even our current squad could produce football far better than we are seeing.
Maddison 100% fit and on form would do very little in this team, because the set up just isnt for players who want to attack.
There are no runners. There is no sustained possession. There is a huge disconnect between attack and defence. Maddison would have no choice but to try holywood balls to Kudus/Richarlison or just pass back and sideways same as everyone else
Exactly right.
who in this squad is doing to make anything happen? Maddison and Kulu have been out long term, and we've otherwise got a history of managers screaming at the players to pass it forwards, whilst they dilly-dally playing to back to the keeper.
It's not something you solve without players to do it. We've got a team that is still basically in the mould of Jose and Conte, with a million defensive players and next to no creative ones
I don't agree and neither am I a PL manager.
I think the notion our players can't be coached to deliver something more progressive than what we are seeing is quite bizarre.
If you think it's only changed by an influx of new players, I think you will be disappointed.
It's called managerial philosophy and I think we can see that Frank prefers the percentage game over a more open,pattern-based approach, and it's mostly boring as well as ineffective.
So what's the answer, if Jose (most successful modern manager), Nuno, Conte, Postecoglou, and now Frank (good reputation with coaching players) aren't doing it?
It's not a manager thing. These players weren't any different over the past 3 or 4 seasons
Good coaching gets teams punching above their weight all the time.
Coaches get superior results against better teams simply by outworking them, let alone anything more nuanced.
We dont have an optimum squad, but we do have a lot more talent than we are showing right now.
We went into the Palace game with 3 CBs on the bench, and brought one on to protect a 1-0 lead with 30+ minutes to go = this tells you all you need to know about Franks philosophy on football.
A more progressive manager would have had us working as a unit, exploiting spaces and getting the ball up the field as a team - this doesnt require a squad overhaul, simply a coaching one.
(and then, of course, improving the squad helps as well! But its not the be all end all)
It's a combination of factors with this club, with:
The wrong manager for the players,
The wrong players signed for systems and positions,
The board not sanctioning appropriate fees/wages for the calibre of player.
On the surface, managers are backed if you look at raw numbers, but it's always the wrong fit. Ultimately, whoever sanctioned what, it's the fault of the players - but it's always the manager that has to take the can.
We have a squad full of players that don't walk into any other top 4/6 team, bar possibly Micky and Romero. We've bought cheap - often not even that cheap, and it leaves us having to buy twice. It's not going to be a cheap fix.
Good coaching can get players over performing, but I think we've already had patches of that from this lot.
Imo frank should have a behind closed doors friendly or two for players like scarlett and Tel against a really crap team so they can smash in a few goals. Scarlett must be getting close to getting the nod for first team.