Tottenham Hotspur - Financials

[hiatus]

I agree yes but you have to look at the flip side. We compete for four Champions League slots in the most competitive league in the world regarding those four positions. Liverpool are incredible st the moment, Man U one of the wealthiest money spinners, Man City owned by someone with silly bollocks money and Chelsea owned by a guy who has nonchalantly forked out a fortune, along with the £240m loan he gave them last year. We have Woolwich who despite us overtaking the, in revenue this year financially dominated us since what was it 1997 that kind of time? Plus we have new money clubs like Leicester, Everton and Wolves (owners are insanely rich) and even the likes of Sheffield zunited these days, owned by either King or Prince Abdullah so you know where they are heading.

We all have our own opinions on the matter, some say spend, some say be prudent but to be cautious with spending whereby you don't have to sell at a discount to stay in the black just makes sense to me.

Be ambitious yes but then I see a commitment to spending up to c£150m in the summer as being ambitious (£62m for Ndombele, c£50m Lo Celso, C£25m Sessegnon, £10m Clarke) as being so. Investment is required but I just don't see how we can focus on mad spending like others do due to their circumstances.

The revenue made this year is skewed by our run to the final, that's probably aced a further £30m-£40m onto what we expected so we can't commit to long term purchases + wages like it is a given this will occur each season. I think we need to be braced for a 2-3 year building spell, to go and buy 4-5 big players at once just comes with too much risk.

I don't disagree, but we need a better organizational structure to support these efforts in my view. We have not had a coherent transfer policy in place for some time, or it least it seems that way, last summer notwithstanding.

Mousa Dembele, Kyle Walker, Danny Rose, Jan Vertonghen, Erik Lamela, Chirstian Eriksen, Hugo Lloris and Harry Kane were all here before Poch was hired.

Eric Dier and Ben Davies arrived before Poch's first game and Dele was bought in January his first year. Son Heung-min, Toby Alderweireld, and Kieren Trippier the summer after that in 2015.

Harry Winks was an academy product and basically the only one Poch successfully brought into the first team in five years.

After the summer of 2015, we have bought 3(!) players that are regulars today: Sanchez, Sissoko and Lucas. Over seven windows. We also never properly replaced Walker or Dembele until it was far too late. The rosters of City, Liverpool, etc.. look nothing like they did 5-6 years ago.

This is a combination of multiple factors (Levy, Poch, scouting, structure, etc..), but really what it means is that we don't have the personnel to manage a club of this size when it comes to player acquisition. The only way to survive without the extra money from the Champions League, both prize and sponsors, is to recruit better and we don't seem to have a strategy to do that.

 

[skywalker68]

I agree yes but you have to look at the flip side. We compete for four Champions League slots in the most competitive league in the world regarding those four positions. Liverpool are incredible st the moment, Man U one of the wealthiest money spinners, Man City owned by someone with silly bollocks money and Chelsea owned by a guy who has nonchalantly forked out a fortune, along with the £240m loan he gave them last year. We have Woolwich who despite us overtaking the, in revenue this year financially dominated us since what was it 1997 that kind of time? Plus we have new money clubs like Leicester, Everton and Wolves (owners are insanely rich) and even the likes of Sheffield zunited these days, owned by either King or Prince Abdullah so you know where they are heading.

We all have our own opinions on the matter, some say spend, some say be prudent but to be cautious with spending whereby you don't have to sell at a discount to stay in the black just makes sense to me.

Be ambitious yes but then I see a commitment to spending up to c£150m in the summer as being ambitious (£62m for Ndombele, c£50m Lo Celso, C£25m Sessegnon, £10m Clarke) as being so. Investment is required but I just don't see how we can focus on mad spending like others do due to their circumstances.

The revenue made this year is skewed by our run to the final, that's probably aced a further £30m-£40m onto what we expected so we can't commit to long term purchases + wages like it is a given this will occur each season. I think we need to be braced for a 2-3 year building spell, to go and buy 4-5 big players at once just comes with too much risk.

I thought we would wait until the end of the season at least to here your annual address to the fan's Mr chairman.

 

[TheRealTI]

Yikes Everton

Alisher Usmanov’s links with Everton grow stronger as he eyes potential new stadium deal

Alisher Usmanov has strengthened his links with Everton after the company he owns with business partner Farhad Moshiri spent £30 million acquiring an option to purchase naming rights for the club’s

www.thetimes.co.uk

At least we are not in a situation like that.

 

[Claud601]

Champions of the balance sheet in London! We can raise the Q1 on the final day of the season and feel proud

 

[Blanchflower]

Well look at you. Fancy boy knows how to do math. Why don't you just rub it in a little more.

You disgust me, math boy.

Wtf is 'math'

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

You'd think with it being ready made for NFL that the natural progression for American Football in the capital would be to shift all games to N17.

Some people have beef with how Levy does things, that's up to them for whatever reasons they have but the planning around this and if it comes off to its biggest potential (a permanent NFL franchise) will have been a financial master stroke.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

 

[Bill Madrid]

MBA? I have two degrees both honorary so utterly worthless .... left school at 16 with a pile of 'O' level qualifications which I never used once. (not the skill sets the qualifications)

I call it like I see it - people post shit or act like whining babies then expect to get called out - far to old to worry about offending people, if they're a cunt what's wrong with saying that?

This site is full of other clubs trolls, no real fan spends all their time on a fan site posting against the club they supposedly support, there is plenty of research to show sites like this have as much as 20% of non-home fans on them ... see if you can name a few on here.

You're never shy at saying what you think, even if it's often nonsense, pretty sure the "cunts, thick, ignorant, stupid and so on and so forth" will survive a bit of internet shaming. John Thomas must live for it clearly not a Spurs fan he just comes on hear seeking the abuse, now that is pretty weird?

Believe me pondering on sad internet trolls is not thinking material for a decent massage ....

I would bet my house that none of the regular posters on here supports another team in England, not a single one.

What makes you the arbiter of what a "true supporter" is? I know plenty of decades-long season ticket holders who are critical of various aspects of the club, as is their right as paying customers, what gives you the right to stand in judgement over them and critics on here all the way from Thailand?

 

[John Thomas]

John Thomas must live for it clearly not a Spurs ENIC fan he just comes on hear seeking the abuse, now that is pretty weird?

I was born Spurs and I will die Spurs.
I've corrected your patronising bullshit for you. You know nothing about me.

 

[Art Vandelay]

102m Euros so far - decent amount but in today's market only enough to buy 2 players, but not pay wages !

My guess however is that the exposure Spurs will get from the CL final appearance will add zillions to that amount (and maybe get that bid Stadium Naming Rights deal over the line) plus a few younger hungry players out there might be thinking they'd like to join that 'up and coming side' rather than some of the more established sides such as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Manchester United etc, providing of course the wages are ok.

So its all good.

And did I mention that with the extra UEFA Coefficient points our 5 year average is now the same as ManU ?

 

[Spursidol]

Yeah I think that's closest to the mark. It'll probably be fees paid minus amortisation. After looking at a few other teams in and around us, it can't be based on statistical valuing or a transfer value we may out on a players head, Woolwich have an intangible value of around £270m so now WAY could our squad have a smaller value than them seeing as we've been finishing above them in recent years.

Got to be transfer fee paid -amortisation, I'm pretty sure you're on the money there.

Correct if a player is signed for £50m on a 5 year contract, the £50m is put on the balance sheet on day 1.

In the first year £10m (£50m divided by 5 year contract) is charged to Profit and Loss account leaving £40m as the Net Book Value in the balance sheet.

If that player is sold for £40m at the end of year 2 (when that player has been amortized by a 2nd year so Net Book Value reduced to £30m) then a profit is shown in the accounts if £10m ( being £40m sale proceeds less £30m net book value). And at that point the balance sheet value is zero.

A few complications around renewing a players contract and players like Wanyama losing value through injury), but otherwise the above 3 paras explain the majority of accounting for player transfers both in and out.

 

[Darnswim]

TDLR:
That ten-year coefficient is a bastard.

Won't be after 7 years

 

[hiatus]

TDLR:
That ten-year coefficient is a bastard.

What if it was 5 years instead?

 

[pipes]

Nope, poch got a loan, Ndombele and Clark. Not 114m.

no comment on how the decrease in revenue from this year’s clusterfuck will impact the fairytale?

We signed Sessegnon too. You know less than fuck all.

 

[scott]

yeah I appreciate that, but the reason I’m not using figures is because my argument is not based on the figures but behaviour.
Anyway thanks for running the numbers and coming to the same conclusion. There will be a deficit. I was talking about the following year too with no CL. So the deficit will be larger then. Still big numbers for our club though, giving us the potential to invest... certainly, however I believe Levy will base the investment on the more certain elements of our income, probably discounting CL revenues completely for instance, so we are not left in a position where failure to qualify will leave us in trouble. He’s probably already patting himself on the back regarding not investing more in the current squad for the same reasoning, only to be proven right in a self fulfilling prophecy.

investing in the squad this Christmas makes perfect sense, I agree. However there have been numerous occasions in the past where it made perfect sense and didn’t materialise.
Based on past history, we are far more likely to do nothing than make the necessary investment.

Yeah I too am surprised so many feel if we have lots to spend on players then we would. Loads of occasions we have needed 1 or 2 players to get us to the next level & each time we chose not to go ahead. You got to admire the faith some have in our owners & their main incentives. But I strongly feel they will never do what's required to make that next step. We were meant to be gradually improving to then become winners that's what I was told. Closing the gap. But now we feel further away from the the likes of city & Liverpool than we have for quite a few years. We seem to be going backwards.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

I thought we would wait until the end of the season at least to here your annual address to the fan's Mr chairman.

Daniel says hi

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Youre correct but dont be so negative

You’re correct but I don’t like facts.

 

[VoiceOfThePoshSeats]

Wtf is 'math'

Think he meant meth

 

[LeeMcl]

Another 'fan' with totally deluded memories ... are you lot breeding? I love this club as much or more than the next guy but I don't pretend we we're something we're not ... that's still to come.

Fallen from where? when were we much bigger?

In the 60's we averaged 4.3 in the League
In the 70's we averaged 10.3 in the League (got relegated, that was a fun season in Div 2)
In the 80's we averaged 7.6 in the League
In the 90's we averaged 10.1 in the League
In the 00's we averaged 9.3 in the League
In the 10's we averaged 4.1 in the League

Where was this massive fall you speak off ... or are you another fantasist for the 'good old days' that in reality never actually existed.

In the real world the last decade was the most successful in the League in our history ... you wouldn't know that from the 'fans' on here .... let's hope the 20's are even better.

I’d refer to the push and run side, the double winners, the first European trophy winners from the U.K, the only non league club ever to win an FA Cup, two time UEFA Cup winners ( in a period that was even harder to win such things ) 8 times FA Cup winners.........

Key word there, Winners. Averaging out league finishes actually diminishes the history of the club, for what purpose ? To heap praise, which is not unmerited by the way, on ENIC.

what is delusional about viewing actual trophy wins and achievements before others in football as evidence of the actual status of THFC ?

The fall off to which I refer is the period between Alan Sugar turning up and circa 2005/6. That was turd for the majority of the time (in my view and I appreciate you don’t agree)

Spurs might have had an average finish of 10.1 in the 90’s but that does not tell the story of how utterly inept the majority of that period was. Strip away when Francis finished top 8 and then what’s the league average then, if it mirrors the late 70’s I would not be surprised.

If you want to argue that the 70’s is the worst period in our modern history, I’d point to the 71-74 period when finals, semi finals and actual trophies were fought for and won. Unlike the majority of the 90’s and into the 00’s.

anyways, we disagree and as far as I can tell that’s allowed.

 

[Ossie Wembley]

Just a thought - in the early 90's Spurs got involved with selling leisure wear and other stuff - before finding lots of problems such as stock accounting which meant these 'non football' revenue streams were loss making, almost sent the club into bankruptcy and Sugar ensured Spurs stopped doing them.

However I suspect these 'non footballing' activities will have been included in gross revenues for 92/3. Best to strip them out if you have access to the 92 accounts, which would mean our 'real' (or sustainable) revenues were a few million less than the figures you have.

Our turnover in 92 was £19,308,000 according to the accounts.

In 91 it was £18,173,000 - the large decline came in 90 so by 92 it wouldn’t have been a factor.

I’m not sure why people are looking to create a narrative to suggest we weren’t one of the largest clubs by turnover for that period.

Even at the decades close we had virtual parity with Liverpool.

Their turnover in 1999 was £45,265,000 whilst ours was £42,585,000.

The expansion of the Champions League to incorporate more teams and the global commercialisation of the league in the following decade is what really did for us.