This is it chaps, same as last year, time to shit these cunts up on and off the pitch, Partey is getting it today
Having my first beer at 10am
See you on the high road
Having my first beer at 10am
See you on the high road
-
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Match Tottenham Hotspur v Woolwich Scum (15th Jan - 4.30pm)
- Thread starter thinktank
- Start date
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We need our fans to intimidate the scum from minute one, be on their back and not settle and we need our team to do the same.
What is this preoccupation the media has with youth? They are always going on about it. Really, who cares?
When Harry Kane broke through at Tottenham Hotspur in 2014, they had the youngest squad in the Premier League and had gained a reputation as a club where fresh-faced players would be given a pathway to the first team.
Nearly a decade on and Spurs supporters may reasonably ask where the next Kane is coming from. Tomorrow’s derby against a youthful, resurgent Woolwich will be a clear reminder of how far the club have fallen when it comes to nurturing their own talent.
Woolwich’s matchday squad for the derby is likely to include Bukayo Saka, 21, Emile Smith Rowe, 22, and Eddie Nketiah, 23, all of whom graduated from the club’s Hale End academy. Gabriel Martinelli, the Brazil forward, joined at 18 and, like Saka, has become an established international and appeared at the World Cup.
Contrast this with Tottenham, where no one has made a similar impact of late. Oliver Skipp, 22, has made three starts in the league this season, having been hindered by injury, while Japhet Tanganga, 23, has been used sporadically since his promising debut against Liverpool three years ago.
The rival clubs, five miles apart, have been on different paths. Over the past four Premier League seasons, Woolwich have given five times more minutes to players aged 21 or under than Tottenham. Mikel Arteta, appointed as a rookie manager in December 2019, was fortunate to inherit a good crop of academy players but has made it his mission to use them. “It is part of the project and it is part of our DNA,” Arteta has said. “Our academy players have to have opportunities in this club and we want to give them opportunities.”
Until now, Woolwich have not been serious title contenders, which gave Arteta more licence to promote youth. During the past four years, Spurs have appointed three head coaches in José Mourinho, Nuno Espírito Santo and Antonio Conte who wanted to work with established players rather than emerging talents.
Dilan Markanday was rated by coaches but the winger joined Blackburn Rovers a year ago, frustrated by one senior substitute appearance. Luis Binks, who joined Spurs aged six, rejected a professional deal and joined Montreal Impact in 2020 after failing to receive assurances from Mourinho that he would get game time. Noni Madueke, an attacking midfielder and England Under-21 international, left for PSV Eindhoven in 2019.
A number of prospects such as Madueke, now at PSV, have left Spurs in recent years
GEERT VAN ERVEN/GETTY IMAGES
Mourinho did hand debuts to Alfie Devine and Dane Scarlett in 2021, then both 16, but critics argued that he was simply box-ticking. Devine became Tottenham’s youngest player, at 16 years and 163 days, when he came on against non-League Marine in the FA Cup but the attacking midfielder waited two years for another go as a last-minute substitute in a 1-0 win over Portsmouth in the same competition last Saturday.
Scarlett played a handful of times and Tottenham have high hopes for the forward, who has scored five times on loan at Portsmouth this season. Troy Parrott, 20, got some game time under Mourinho but his attitude and application were questioned in the under-23 side. In his four loan moves the forward has scored 14 goals, two fewer than Kane managed in the same number of spells away from the club between 2011 and 2013.
Kane and others such as Nabil Bentaleb got their big break when thrown into the side by Tim Sherwood and Les Ferdinand. Mauricio Pochettino, who succeeded Sherwood in 2014, picked Bentaleb and Andros Townsend prominently in his first season. He later became more conservative in his selections although he used six academy players in a 5-0 win over Gillingham in the League Cup in 2016. Of those players, only Harry Winks is still contracted to the club. His career has nosedived and he is yet to make an appearance on loan at Sampdoria where he has struggled with injury.
Marcus Edwards made his one and only Tottenham appearance that night too. Pochettino came to regret comparing Edwards to Lionel Messi and perhaps the attacking midfielder’s recent progress at Sporting Lisbon — where he impressed in both matches against his old club in the Champions League this season — suggests a lack of patience on all sides when he left.
Edwards left Spurs in 2019 and is now impressing at Sporting
CARLOS RODRIGUES/GETTY IMAGES
Pochettino’s problem was that as expectations grew, he became under more pressure to sign established stars. He did not persevere with the likes of Kyle Walker-Peters, who made 12 league appearances in three seasons and was sold by Mourinho to Southampton in 2019. He has kicked on since. and, ironically, Tottenham’s priority for this transfer window is a right wingback — the position he most regularly plays. One target, Sporting’s Pedro Porro, has a £36.7 million release clause.
It all means that while Spurs have the fourth-oldest squad in the Premier League, Woolwich’s has been the youngest over the past two seasons. Arteta’s plan has been to sign players aged 24 or under who can be developed, having had his fingers burnt when he signed a 32-year-old Willian at the end of his first season.
Arteta has reaped the rewards of the work in the academy that began with Liam Brady in 1996, who helped develop English players in Ashley Cole, Kieran Gibbs and Jack Wilshere. For Arsène Wenger, the academy became more of a finishing school for youngsters from overseas, including Cesc Fàbregas, Wojciech Szczesny and Nicklas Bendtner.
Woolwich replaced Brady with Andries Jonker in 2014, to try to close the gap on the big-spending academies of Chelsea and Manchester City, who have dominated youth football in the past decade. Jonker’s philosophy jarred with some coaches and he was replaced by Per Mertesacker in 2017.
In September, Ethan Nwaneri became Woolwich’s youngest player in top-flight history when he made his debut aged only 15 years and 181 days. The club also have high hopes for Charlie Patino, the 19-year-old midfielder on loan at Blackpool.
Nwaneri became the Premier League’s youngest-ever player at 15 years and 181 days when he came on for Woolwich against Brentford in September
STUART MACFARLANE/GETTY IMAGES
Chelsea have shown that having a good academy can boost transfer coffers. In 2021 alone they generated £90 million from the sale of players they developed, which effectively paid for Romelu Lukaku, who cost £97.5 million from Inter Milan.
Woolwich and Tottenham cannot match that. Since 2016, Woolwich have sold Alex Iwobi, Emiliano Martínez and Joe Willock for a combined £70 million and raised another £40 million from Szczesny, Francis Coquelin, Gibbs, Krystian Bielik and Chuba Akpom. In the same period, Tottenham have made £55 million from sales of Bentaleb, Ryan Mason, Walker-Peters, Alex Pritchard and Cameron Carter-Vickers. One obvious benefit of giving young players minutes in the Premier League is that, if they perform well, it increases their value.
Tottenham have been competitive at under-18 level in recent seasons but the under-21 side are bottom of Premier League 2 Division One. They have hopes for Jamie Donley, 18, a forward from Northern Ireland who has been at the club since the age of eight. Last summer they signed Will Lankshear, a promising 17-year-old forward from Sheffield United, who, like Kane, had previously been released by Woolwich.
Will they break through and allow the fans to claim them as one of their own? That depends on whether Tottenham find a coach to trust them.
Other than one second half when Biss subbed in, we’ve never looked good with a 3 man midfield. We don’t have the playmaker. We could match them 1 to 1 but then we lose most of our threat the other end.First 20 minutes are key.
They normally start fast and we are slow. We can't go down early, it'll play into their hands on the counter.
Central midfield is where this game is won and lost.
Odegaard makes them tick. We need 3 in the middle here. Bissouma needs to have a solid game here. I've seen him be lazy a few times not tracking runners, he can't afford to give Odegaard time and space. Get in his face and stick to him all game.
Xhaka is playing a similar role to PEH for us. They are getting forward more into the opposition box. I imagine they'll be directly up against each other. Both have poor defensive instincts IMO. That leaves Bentancur v Partey.
If we match them and win these 1v1 battles, then this games is ours for the taking.
If we play 2 in midfield not only does it mean we are overrun, it allows Partey to block our access into Kane. Additionally it allows Partey to venture forward, you only have to see his goal in the first game this season. Bentancur and PEH can't patrol the edge of the box themselves.
I would play this:
Lloris
Spence Romero Dier Davies
Bentancur Bissouma PEH
Kulusevski Kane Son
Think we will see this:
Lloris
Doherty Romero Dier Davies Perisic
PEH Bissouma
Kulusevski Kane Son
Think we need a smart defender against Saka, Sess and Perisic don't have the defensive ability. I'd go for Davies. But don't be surprised to see Doherty play on the left. With Sake playing inverted, Conte may combat that with an inverted fullback too.
Spence's extra speed is invaluable against Martinelli.
Romero v Nketiah, on paper only one winner. But I really hate Pawson as a ref and I can see Romero getting sent off.
Defensively their right side is weak, the pressure is on Son to perform. We never see it, but I'd like Conte to switch Kulusevski and Son during the game. Deki on the other side will cause them problems.
Lastly, Kane v Saliba and Gabriel. I know people are waking over Saliba and Gabriel, but I really don't rate them. There's a Sanchez type mistake in each of them. Kane will do what Kane always does, it's the one thing that I can bank my money on in a NLD which is super volatile and more unpredictable than previous encounters. The home team normally wins this fixture but let's see, the other lot are better than they have been - we have to respect that but let's not do what we did in the first game and cede possession and territory. Have a fucking go at em! I'm sure us as fans will manhandle them into throwing down the gauntlet.
COYS!
Would prefer to stay aggressive as we are at home but maybe Kulu or Gil playing off the right but drifting into the middle more.
They aren’t great at FB, we should be 2v1 on both sides most of the game if Saka and Martinelli want to try and stay high.
Biggest issue we have is passing through the press to get to those 2v1’s.
Kane almost certainly needs to be more involved in the build up for us to get through the press. He’s our only player that actually gets a whistle when pressing players go through our back and hack.
Who’s shitting it then?
The Ashburton Army who’ve been giving it Bertie Big Spuds on Twitter
Fans don't intimidate opposing players anymore.
What we need is Conte and the players to give the fans plenty to shout about.
We can propel ourselves bsck into the mix if we win and throw all manner of doubt into that other lot.
Its for us to fcuking show-up.
COYFS
Gooner propaganda machine has been
When Harry Kane broke through at Tottenham Hotspur in 2014, they had the youngest squad in the Premier League and had gained a reputation as a club where fresh-faced players would be given a pathway to the first team.
Nearly a decade on and Spurs supporters may reasonably ask where the next Kane is coming from. Tomorrow’s derby against a youthful, resurgent Woolwich will be a clear reminder of how far the club have fallen when it comes to nurturing their own talent.
Woolwich’s matchday squad for the derby is likely to include Bukayo Saka, 21, Emile Smith Rowe, 22, and Eddie Nketiah, 23, all of whom graduated from the club’s Hale End academy. Gabriel Martinelli, the Brazil forward, joined at 18 and, like Saka, has become an established international and appeared at the World Cup.
Contrast this with Tottenham, where no one has made a similar impact of late. Oliver Skipp, 22, has made three starts in the league this season, having been hindered by injury, while Japhet Tanganga, 23, has been used sporadically since his promising debut against Liverpool three years ago.
The rival clubs, five miles apart, have been on different paths. Over the past four Premier League seasons, Woolwich have given five times more minutes to players aged 21 or under than Tottenham. Mikel Arteta, appointed as a rookie manager in December 2019, was fortunate to inherit a good crop of academy players but has made it his mission to use them. “It is part of the project and it is part of our DNA,” Arteta has said. “Our academy players have to have opportunities in this club and we want to give them opportunities.”
Until now, Woolwich have not been serious title contenders, which gave Arteta more licence to promote youth. During the past four years, Spurs have appointed three head coaches in José Mourinho, Nuno Espírito Santo and Antonio Conte who wanted to work with established players rather than emerging talents.
Dilan Markanday was rated by coaches but the winger joined Blackburn Rovers a year ago, frustrated by one senior substitute appearance. Luis Binks, who joined Spurs aged six, rejected a professional deal and joined Montreal Impact in 2020 after failing to receive assurances from Mourinho that he would get game time. Noni Madueke, an attacking midfielder and England Under-21 international, left for PSV Eindhoven in 2019.
A number of prospects such as Madueke, now at PSV, have left Spurs in recent years
GEERT VAN ERVEN/GETTY IMAGES
Mourinho did hand debuts to Alfie Devine and Dane Scarlett in 2021, then both 16, but critics argued that he was simply box-ticking. Devine became Tottenham’s youngest player, at 16 years and 163 days, when he came on against non-League Marine in the FA Cup but the attacking midfielder waited two years for another go as a last-minute substitute in a 1-0 win over Portsmouth in the same competition last Saturday.
Scarlett played a handful of times and Tottenham have high hopes for the forward, who has scored five times on loan at Portsmouth this season. Troy Parrott, 20, got some game time under Mourinho but his attitude and application were questioned in the under-23 side. In his four loan moves the forward has scored 14 goals, two fewer than Kane managed in the same number of spells away from the club between 2011 and 2013.
Kane and others such as Nabil Bentaleb got their big break when thrown into the side by Tim Sherwood and Les Ferdinand. Mauricio Pochettino, who succeeded Sherwood in 2014, picked Bentaleb and Andros Townsend prominently in his first season. He later became more conservative in his selections although he used six academy players in a 5-0 win over Gillingham in the League Cup in 2016. Of those players, only Harry Winks is still contracted to the club. His career has nosedived and he is yet to make an appearance on loan at Sampdoria where he has struggled with injury.
Marcus Edwards made his one and only Tottenham appearance that night too. Pochettino came to regret comparing Edwards to Lionel Messi and perhaps the attacking midfielder’s recent progress at Sporting Lisbon — where he impressed in both matches against his old club in the Champions League this season — suggests a lack of patience on all sides when he left.
Edwards left Spurs in 2019 and is now impressing at Sporting
CARLOS RODRIGUES/GETTY IMAGES
Pochettino’s problem was that as expectations grew, he became under more pressure to sign established stars. He did not persevere with the likes of Kyle Walker-Peters, who made 12 league appearances in three seasons and was sold by Mourinho to Southampton in 2019. He has kicked on since. and, ironically, Tottenham’s priority for this transfer window is a right wingback — the position he most regularly plays. One target, Sporting’s Pedro Porro, has a £36.7 million release clause.
It all means that while Spurs have the fourth-oldest squad in the Premier League, Woolwich’s has been the youngest over the past two seasons. Arteta’s plan has been to sign players aged 24 or under who can be developed, having had his fingers burnt when he signed a 32-year-old Willian at the end of his first season.
Arteta has reaped the rewards of the work in the academy that began with Liam Brady in 1996, who helped develop English players in Ashley Cole, Kieran Gibbs and Jack Wilshere. For Arsène Wenger, the academy became more of a finishing school for youngsters from overseas, including Cesc Fàbregas, Wojciech Szczesny and Nicklas Bendtner.
Woolwich replaced Brady with Andries Jonker in 2014, to try to close the gap on the big-spending academies of Chelsea and Manchester City, who have dominated youth football in the past decade. Jonker’s philosophy jarred with some coaches and he was replaced by Per Mertesacker in 2017.
In September, Ethan Nwaneri became Woolwich’s youngest player in top-flight history when he made his debut aged only 15 years and 181 days. The club also have high hopes for Charlie Patino, the 19-year-old midfielder on loan at Blackpool.
Nwaneri became the Premier League’s youngest-ever player at 15 years and 181 days when he came on for Woolwich against Brentford in September
STUART MACFARLANE/GETTY IMAGES
Chelsea have shown that having a good academy can boost transfer coffers. In 2021 alone they generated £90 million from the sale of players they developed, which effectively paid for Romelu Lukaku, who cost £97.5 million from Inter Milan.
Woolwich and Tottenham cannot match that. Since 2016, Woolwich have sold Alex Iwobi, Emiliano Martínez and Joe Willock for a combined £70 million and raised another £40 million from Szczesny, Francis Coquelin, Gibbs, Krystian Bielik and Chuba Akpom. In the same period, Tottenham have made £55 million from sales of Bentaleb, Ryan Mason, Walker-Peters, Alex Pritchard and Cameron Carter-Vickers. One obvious benefit of giving young players minutes in the Premier League is that, if they perform well, it increases their value.
Tottenham have been competitive at under-18 level in recent seasons but the under-21 side are bottom of Premier League 2 Division One. They have hopes for Jamie Donley, 18, a forward from Northern Ireland who has been at the club since the age of eight. Last summer they signed Will Lankshear, a promising 17-year-old forward from Sheffield United, who, like Kane, had previously been released by Woolwich.
Will they break through and allow the fans to claim them as one of their own? That depends on whether Tottenham find a coach to trust them.
all season and now they come with this just before the NLD?Irony here is that this was published in a legacy media pub like the Times. Which young people read the times??
So they basically wrote a hit piece with a fixation on young players that will only be read by old men…. Dodgy af.
Peter Cook relating the story of when he bumped into the Ashburton Army.
Dier knows what it is like when they sing that they love him. “It’s an incredible rush,” he says. “You’re never out of breath. You feel like you could run and play all night.” When it flips the other way, as against Villa, it is draining. “Then you do start to feel your legs and your lungs,”
www.theguardian.com
Eric Dier wants a big atmosphere to silence Spurs’ noisy neighbours
When pacesetters Woolwich visit for the north London derby, vocal backing of will give Tottenham an edge, Eric Dier insisted
www.theguardian.com
Pretty sure the Woolwich players felt intimidated last season, the atmosphere was immense.
Dier knows what it is like when they sing that they love him. “It’s an incredible rush,” he says. “You’re never out of breath. You feel like you could run and play all night.” When it flips the other way, as against Villa, it is draining. “Then you do start to feel your legs and your lungs,”
Eric Dier wants a big atmosphere to silence Spurs’ noisy neighbours
When pacesetters Woolwich visit for the north London derby, vocal backing of will give Tottenham an edge, Eric Dier insisted
Maybe if you stopped making so many mistakes Eric
Fair enough mate. Then more of the same. Let's just be strong and on the front foot for once, and no unforced errors.
The biggest criticism I think you can level at Conte, for such a fiery character is how passive we often appear .
It's a paradox.
Funnily enough me and some mates have been saying that for a while.