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Match Tottenham vs Forest Monday 21 April 8pm

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Matt1882 said:
Even if we did win the ropey league, it's not "the most successful" is it?
What are we?
We're a premier league team. The first objective is always to finish as high as possible. He replaced Conte who got 4th in 2022 and was 3rd when sacked in 2023. Ange finished 5th in 2024 and will finish in the lower bottom half in 2025.
So he's a failure as a premier league coach.
Success for me is winning a cup AND finishing as high as possible in the league.
Theoretically speaking, could anyone say Ange is a success if we won a cup and got relegated?
Of course not. That's fucking stupid.
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I know it's not just you that calls it that, but calling the UEFA CUP the 'Ropey League' really DOES demean its' importance.

It also makes us sound SO privileged as a fan base, as if nothing less that the Premier & Champions Leagues will do, and any other trophies are somehow beneath us...

Beggars can't be choosers' an' all that... and I'm on bended knees right now!!

Gmspurs said:
People remember

George Graham and Ramos aren't considered successful managers.


Despite them winning cups, the Redknapp and Poch eras were far more enjoyable.
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Hard to disagree, but I do remember having quite an enjoyable time on the day of the Finals in 1999 & 2008...
however briefly!

1991 was the Cup Run and Final I enjoyed the most as an adult... was too young to fully appreciate 1981 & 1982 ...but anything before that, and we're entering BLACK & WHITE/SEPIA territory!
 
1882 said:
I know it's not just you that calls it that, but calling the UEFA CUP the 'Ropey League' really DOES demean its' importance.

It also makes us sound SO privileged as a fan base, as if nothing less that the Premier & Champions Leagues will do, and any other trophies are somehow beneath us...

Beggars can't be choosers' an' all that... and I'm on bended knees right now!!


Hard to disagree, but I do remember having quite an enjoyable time on the day of the Finals in 1999 & 2008...
however briefly!

1991 was the Cup Run and Final I enjoyed the most as an adult... was too young to fully appreciate 1981 & 1982 ...but anything before that, and we're entering BLACK & WHITE/SEPIA territory!
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nah - it was in colour

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDo26Wlkj3I
 
Bloodbath said:
It seemed at the start of the season that most supporters wanted a trophy more than anything else.

Now it seems that most supporters actually wanted a good PL season more than a trophy.
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That's a bit extreme IMO; if we were 10th-12th, then I would take that if it meant us winning the EL.
However being in a position of only avoiding relegation because there are three bloody awful teams below us (with two of them winning on our home turf) is just not good enough.
I'm so pessimistic that I cannot see us winning another game this season - it is that bad. (Obviously and goes without saying, I want to be so wrong about this).
 
1882 said:
I know it's not just you that calls it that, but calling the UEFA CUP the 'Ropey League' really DOES demean its' importance.

It also makes us sound SO privileged as a fan base, as if nothing less that the Premier & Champions Leagues will do, and any other trophies are somehow beneath us...

Beggars can't be choosers' an' all that... and I'm on bended knees right now!!


Hard to disagree, but I do remember having quite an enjoyable time on the day of the Finals in 1999 & 2008...
however briefly!

1991 was the Cup Run and Final I enjoyed the most as an adult... was too young to fully appreciate 1981 & 1982 ...but anything before that, and we're entering BLACK & WHITE/SEPIA territory!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's a legacy habit from decades of there being no CL qualification and it being dominated by CL failures. It was never glamorous after the rise of the Champions league in the 90's.
It really was more of a curse than a gift. It left us in a cycle of it hurting our league form and the league demands preventing us from actually challenging to win it. Outcome was always missing out on the bigger prize of CL football AND not even winning the "ropey league" to take any solace from. And the reward would only have been the same burden the next season. the money us still poor as well. So much so that I doubt Levy would see a 16th place finish as success even if we won it.

Current estimate is £14m for finishing 16th.
2 places up to 14th would be almost £6m more.
How much Premier League prize money will each team get?

The Europa League pays out
£3.6m for group/league stage qualification
£1.5m for R16 success
£2.1m for 1/4 final
£3.5m for a semi win
£5m for winning the final .
I make that around £16m IF we win it.
It's currently £8.5m

Just a top 10 finish in the PL is worth more. Top 4 gets Champions League football, a lot more PL money and CL money next season.
It's not hard to see why this is the preferred route for pretty much ALL premier league teams into the CL, rather than a bottom 6 league finish and trying to win a cup.

The English PL is kind of unique, too, in that there are 2 domestic cups, and strength in the league itself not allowing a team with upper league aspirations to rest.
Look at PSG for example. They've already won the league. They can now focus solely on training for the CL games.
Wouldn't you rather say we've already won the PL, or qualified for next seasons CL or even the ropey league again and for that reason, we can now focus on the Europa League. You know, rather than "we can't go down now, so we can lose more games than we've ever lost before in maybe, with a bit of luck, we might win the Europa league" ?
 
Mrs Perryman said:
That's a bit extreme IMO; if we were 10th-12th, then I would take that if it meant us winning the EL.
However being in a position of only avoiding relegation because there are three bloody awful teams below us (with two of them winning on our home turf) is just not good enough.
I'm so pessimistic that I cannot see us winning another game this season - it is that bad. (Obviously and goes without saying, I want to be so wrong about this).
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For me, I've always maintained, top 6 at worst plus a cup is the goal.
If no cup, top 6 is a minimum requirement or else a manager and a team is failing. As shit as Levy is as a chairman, I don't think he's left any coach so short that we can't finish top 6 almost every season.
 
Be interested to know the attendance last night as it was weirdly quiet. I struggled to stay till the whistle but I haven’t left early yet and I’m sticking to that! That was fucking awful and just so boring! next season can’t be worse!
 
1882 said:
I know it's not just you that calls it that, but calling the UEFA CUP the 'Ropey League' really DOES demean its' importance.

It also makes us sound SO privileged as a fan base, as if nothing less that the Premier & Champions Leagues will do, and any other trophies are somehow beneath us...

Beggars can't be choosers' an' all that... and I'm on bended knees right now!!


Hard to disagree, but I do remember having quite an enjoyable time on the day of the Finals in 1999 & 2008...
however briefly!

1991 was the Cup Run and Final I enjoyed the most as an adult... was too young to fully appreciate 1981 & 1982 ...but anything before that, and we're entering BLACK & WHITE/SEPIA territory!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1991 was incredible


The season after the best world cup ever and then the first semi against Woolwich......and then we slap them in the face full force.....

Gazza free kick is etched in my memory forever......

Then the tragedy of the final with gazza injuring himself......before we go on and do the business
 
Matt1882 said:
It's a legacy habit from decades of there being no CL qualification and it being dominated by CL failures. It was never glamorous after the rise of the Champions league in the 90's.
It really was more of a curse than a gift. It left us in a cycle of it hurting our league form and the league demands preventing us from actually challenging to win it. Outcome was always missing out on the bigger prize of CL football AND not even winning the "ropey league" to take any solace from. And the reward would only have been the same burden the next season. the money us still poor as well. So much so that I doubt Levy would see a 16th place finish as success even if we won it.

Current estimate is £14m for finishing 16th.
2 places up to 14th would be almost £6m more.
How much Premier League prize money will each team get?

The Europa League pays out
£3.6m for group/league stage qualification
£1.5m for R16 success
£2.1m for 1/4 final
£3.5m for a semi win
£5m for winning the final .
I make that around £16m IF we win it.
It's currently £8.5m

Just a top 10 finish in the PL is worth more. Top 4 gets Champions League football, a lot more PL money and CL money next season.
It's not hard to see why this is the preferred route for pretty much ALL premier league teams into the CL, rather than a bottom 6 league finish and trying to win a cup.

The English PL is kind of unique, too, in that there are 2 domestic cups, and strength in the league itself not allowing a team with upper league aspirations to rest.
Look at PSG for example. They've already won the league. They can now focus solely on training for the CL games.
Wouldn't you rather say we've already won the PL, or qualified for next seasons CL or even the ropey league again and for that reason, we can now focus on the Europa League. You know, rather than "we can't go down now, so we can lose more games than we've ever lost before in maybe, with a bit of luck, we might win the Europa league" ?
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Yeah, I see your point!!

But still... I'd rather the UEFA CUP still carried some weight... It's a MASSIVE fucking trophy.... Even Graham Roberts struggled to hold it up!!!!😲
 
1882 said:
Yeah, I see your point!!

But still... I'd rather the UEFA CUP still carried some weight... It's a MASSIVE fucking trophy.... Even Graham Roberts struggled to hold it up!!!!😲
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Is it the same one?

CjIvTA2XIAAAN_r.jpg


seville_v_fc_internazionale_-_uefa_europa_league_final.jpeg


two observations
1) the base looks different but the cup looks the same
2) fucking reguillon
 
to me, a game and result like yesterday's shows clearly that Ange is not good enough. He simply struggles to coach a result, even when really we should be winning and the players are good enough. It's part tactical and part detail around players knowing exactly what they should be doing in different phases of play/situations.
 
Mrs Perryman said:
What, a worse fit than Ange?
Nuno was just a stop gap until we could get Conte through the door. He never stood a chance. Don't know why we just didn't stick with Ryan.
I like Nuno, seems a genuine person, and there's not many of those around these days.
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At the risk of starting a dumpster fire, I still think Ange is pretty genuine. I know he regurgitates the usual bollocks in the press conferences; which mostly seems to be deflecting attention away from how bad some players were (which is probably why the dressing room hasn't revolted), but is also just him getting annoyed by loaded questions with the usual narrative - and who wouldn't? The press is a bunch of vultures, waiting for weakness and then ripping you apart when it finds a soft spot. Fuck them.

The first thing I saw of him was him not taking shit from the press, and I still like that about him. We need more of it. It's a shame he's turned out to be so bad for us (as have many players), but I honestly think anyone will struggle here, with this setup, with these players. I just don't see Timo and BJ turning into decent players because someone tells them something different to do. Jury is still out on Tel and Solanke.

One thing is for sure: I'm not going to be celebrating any new manager until well after any bounce.
 
TottsAmazeballs said:
At the risk of starting a dumpster fire, I still think Ange is pretty genuine. I know he regurgitates the usual bollocks in the press conferences; which mostly seems to be deflecting attention away from how bad some players were (which is probably why the dressing room hasn't revolted), but is also just him getting annoyed by loaded questions with the usual narrative - and who wouldn't? The press is a bunch of vultures, waiting for weakness and then ripping you apart when it finds a soft spot. Fuck them.

The first thing I saw of him was him not taking shit from the press, and I still like that about him. We need more of it. It's a shame he's turned out to be so bad for us (as have many players), but I honestly think anyone will struggle here, with this setup, with these players. I just don't see Timo and BJ turning into decent players because someone tells them something different to do. Jury is still out on Tel and Solanke.

One thing is for sure: I'm not going to be celebrating any new manager until well after any bounce.
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Fuck me, any manager worth their salt would be doing far better with this squad than this clown
 
Gmspurs said:
Exactly

Possession for show

Goals for dough



There's people actually saying we deserved to win last night because we 'dominated forest'


They scored two, we scored one

All the domination in the world doesn't count for shit if you can't put it in the back of the net.


Dominated them??? We didn't dominate them, we dominated possession, but that's a totally different thing than dominating a team.
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Of course there are, these people are called "idiots".

Forest let us have the ball because they knew they were two up and could sit in and defend well against us, which is what happened. We had no control of the game and they basically kept us at bay.
 
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