What Should Our Realistic Expectations For This Season Be ?

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4th and CL on a regular basis was what we craved little under 3 seasons ago we'd have gave anything for what the goons had what's wrong with it now?

Really that’s news to me? Funny because I seem to recall our supporter base mocking Wengers top 4 is a trophy obsession but seemingly the situation is different when it is us somehow.

The CL is the biggest con of the modern era - it’s deluded a whole generation of supporters into believing it’s the gate way to the elite and that domestic cup tournaments no longer matter.
 

Airfixx

Fucking pay me!!!
And what next year? And the year after that?
We aren’t Everton.

This clubs aim is to join the elite. That is our target, and to do that we need to win stuff. It really is that simple.

Winning stuff is the outcome, not the process. Winners = The Elite.

I don’t think Poch should be sacked

Then what are you so vehemently rallying towards/against?

It is what it is....Poch is a good manager and he will get there in the end.
But don’t sit there and tell me no one else could have won something with this squad by now.

Maybe Simeone would have got the CL over the line last year, but by the same token, who's to say the same players who 'bottled' it under Poch wouldn't have bottled it under DS?

It's not like you haven't currently got beef with Eriksen, Dele and a such afterall. Haven't you condoned dropping the stars and playing the kids on numerous occasions of over last season?

As I already said both in my prev post and directly above... Fuck what others think for a moment (and comments about Everton), what are YOU driving towards here?

It's easy to shout from the roof top that we "should" have won a trophy, but "should" is a pretty hollow concept when it comes down to it.....

How are we (you) gonna ENSURE it happens, mate?



(Pls don't cast me as just another nemesis... I have time for your opinion.... Chill and have the discussion with me.)
 
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Really that’s news to me? Funny because I seem to recall our supporter base mocking Wengers top 4 is a trophy obsession but seemingly the situation is different when it is us somehow.

The CL is the biggest con of the modern era - it’s deluded a whole generation of supporters into believing it’s the gate way to the elite and that domestic cup tournaments no longer matter.
Why would we mock? We're huffing and puffing mid table our highlight of the season playing them and hoping for a result which were far and few between while Wenger was there! They were having glamour European nights whilst if we scraped top 6 and we had trips to the middle of nowhere........Our ridicule was possibly aimed at the fact they didn't go any further than top 4 and CL. As we are now and I'd the majority are satisfied with the exception of a few! And I agree the CL is a money making scam of the highest order.
 
Why would we mock? We're huffing and puffing mid table our highlight of the season playing them and hoping for a result which were far and few between while Wenger was there! They were having glamour European nights whilst if we scraped top 6 and we had trips to the middle of nowhere........Our ridicule was possibly aimed at the fact they didn't go any further than top 4 and CL. As we are now and I'd the majority are satisfied with the exception of a few! And I agree the CL is a money making scam of the highest order.

In the last 15 years we have only finished below 5th place 3 times and one of those placings was 6th. We haven’t been a mid table team for a very long time and we have had consistent European football in that time and have played the likes of Inter, Lyon, Sevilla, PSV, Leverkusen, Feyenoord in the UEFA most of who we have played in the CL so hardly unknown sides in the middle of no where. We mocked them because from 2007 onwards they had little interest in challenging it was all about qualification. We mocked them because Wenger actually said that finishing 4th was like winning a trophy and they actually celebrated like such when they qualified in 2013.
 
The main issue with the Goons comparison is of momentum.....

They won the league 98, 02, 04.... CL Final 06, new stadium..... then it was all about top 4 and paying the bills.

They went from title winners to top 4 “winners”.

We went from nowhere, to top 6, to top 4.... whilst building the stadium.... so our few years of top 4 stability have come from upward momentum whereas there’s was downward momentum......

But we never got to the summit, they did.

So we have to keep aiming high.
 
Had we got Dybala and a right back over the line I would say we have to go toe to toe with city and win the title.

If we have a decent injury record this year I would still say we need to aim to be as close as possible to them and hope Lady Luck is on our side to the same end.

As it is being realistic, anything below 3rd and a domestic cup will be disappointing. However I will not be calling for poch’s head if we don’t win something, I still have faith this team of his will come good.

Any sort of noticeable change in our mental approach to big games would be nice. Today at 5:30 will be an indicator of if the CL final loss has changed us for the better.

If we panic and concede with in the first 15 minutes like we do against most elite opposition over the past few years, then I myself will start to ask questions. I don’t know if fingers should be pointed at the players, or Poch or maybe even us fans have something to do with it.

However I will not be campaigning negativity or calling for an individuals head. I will just want to target the problem and deal with it.

We have to start thinking big now, a loss against an elite team is fine, a panicky self inflicted early goal conceded is not.
 

Rodger

Looking down at Woolich again
4th and CL on a regular basis was what we craved little under 3 seasons ago we'd have gave anything for what the goons had what's wrong with it now?
'What's wrong with it now' is that we'd like to think we've crossed that bridge. In fact I reckon we're still crossing it.
Plus, there's that little word, 'ambition'.

We need to win something proper this season - or maybe next season, once we're fully bedded into NWHL. To tell the truth, we're DESPERATE to win something.
 
6 seasons and still no critique from Stevee about our manager. Shame I can’t be such a soft touch like you.
Good lad, I knew you wouldn't let me down.

Seriously though, I haven't seen you on here for a while*. I know you were banned for a while but I hope everything's ok with you.

*Our opinions are polar extremes but our interactions have always been respectful.
 
Winning stuff is the outcome, not the process. Winners = The Elite.

Yet people are content to not win anything again.....I dont understand that.
How many times are people going to avoid the question?
What did they expect from the new signings and why is large scale investment in the team always such a hot point. To the point people want the chairman to “fuck off” for “neglecting” the side and “not backing” the manager..

Then when we hold onto all our key players, plus sign the number one CM (most peoples MUST HAVE player) plus an long term target AM and winger/LB (which most people highly rate) for a combined £130M, suddenly people are ok with the same outcome as last season.

Last season which had the most “disastrous and shambolic” window in the history of the club and which saw Dembele leave and not be replaced. Which was on the back of a World Cup leaving the whole squad “fatigued” and which saw over 50 injuries.
We can also take out the Wembley factor and playing away for two years. Now we have a home.
But our targets shouldn’t be a little higher?

Be honest, we all know it’s damage limitation because if Poch doesn’t win anything this year, then people can’t have old posts dragged up where they said “we need to win something now......”
Because god forbid you look like a “Poch hater” online eh...

:bentley:


Then what are you so vehemently rallying towards/against?

My point is simply that I would like Spurs to win something and I feel this team has been capable of a domestic in the 6 years Poch has been here.
He has said himself in the past they are worth fuck all, and for me that’s a really shit reason to be sitting here without a trophy.

The manager says only the PL and CL are worth winning, then when fans say they expect silverware we are called entitled.
When the club lowers its expectations then so will I.

It is possible to appreciate our progress, but still see our flaws. It’s called balance.

Maybe Simeone would have got the CL over the line last year, but by the same token, who's to say the same players who 'bottled' it under Poch wouldn't have bottled it under DS?

It's not like you haven't currently got beef with Eriksen, Dele and a such afterall. Haven't you condoned dropping the stars and playing the kids on numerous occasions of over last season?

They may have “bottled it” under Simeone but for me Simeone would be playing a style of football that would suit our key players, thus getting the best out of them more often.

And I absolutely condone dropping the stars.
You might find this interesting


As I already said both in my prev post and directly above... Fuck what others think for a moment (and comments about Everton), what are YOU driving towards here?
Point is that Everton don’t shout about titles and the elite every season......yet we win the same amount as them.
Why should we be content with no silverware when we are constantly told that’s what this club and these players want.

It's easy to shout from the roof top that we "should" have won a trophy, but "should" is a pretty hollow concept when it comes down to it.....

How are we (you) gonna ENSURE it happens, mate?
But then you can apply that concept to anything.......lose 8-0 to City, is it hollow to say we should have done better?
Don’t sign any players......”we should have”.....is that an empty statement then?

It’s not my job to ensure we win something....it’s the managers. Give me 8M a year and I’ll give it a damn good try though.

First job would be to scrap the diamond and play Dele up top.....see, I’ve already won over the fan base

:harryhmm:


(Pls don't cast me as just another nemesis... I have time for your opinion.... Chill and have the discussion with me.)
And I have time for yours which is why we don’t do cunt offs, and can have good and heated debate
 
Good lad, I knew you wouldn't let me down.

Seriously though, I haven't seen you on here for a while*. I know you were banned for a while but I hope everything's ok with you.

*Our opinions are polar extremes but our interactions have always been respectful.


If you had actually read the thread you would know I was here before you asked where I was.

You’re right i haven’t been here in the last couple of months because firstly I got banned for a month for asking this very question when we signed Tanguy.

I was then banned for another month for challenging the suggestion that our training ground was a game changer when middle of the table PL clubs are building similar complexes.

Outrageous behaviour on my part - clearly. I need to remember it’s feelings over facts

But a heads up expect to see me when difficult questions are asked .

You see I don’t give free passes so readily - You won’t see me admitting publicly that I haven’t criticised the manager not once in the time he has been here for instance
 
If you had actually read the thread you would know I was here before you asked where I was.

You won’t see me admitting publicly that I haven’t criticised the manager not once in the time he has been here for instance
I've been a bit busy of late so if there's a thread with a lot of posts I don't read them all.
Your banning had nothing to do with me, I don't red card anyone anymore for having a contrary opinion. Racism, sexism etc....yes, different opinions ....no.

I also won't see you publicly giving Poch praise when it's due.

Peace out.
 
I also won't see you publicly giving Poch praise when it's due

I have repeatedly stated that he is a good manager that he is the best I have seen at the club. The point is about his level - the narrative from the supporter base doesn’t match the reality of his achievements.

That’s what I point out and draw attention to why he hasn’t been able to win anything with this group of players when inferior sides have. I keep on being told he is an elite manager and yet tell me what differentiates him from the likes of Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Conte, who are all a similar age to him?

When a club manager consistently keeps on failing at the last hurdle surely the supporters have to ask questions? Our loyalty lies with the club not its employees.

We are the only club in the top 6 not to have won anything when have had the second highest points total in the league during his tenure. And yet that question is met with silence.

Sammy has also asked a pertinent question - why after having a huge market spend ( and also now a billion pound stadium) do so many of our supporters have the same expectation level as last season?

There is a complete refusal by some to place any semblance of pressure or expectation on the clubs manager. It is utterly bizarre.
 
I have repeatedly stated that he is a good manager that he is the best I have seen at the club. The point is about his level - the narrative from the supporter base doesn’t match the reality of his achievements.

I must of missed your post where you gave Poch credit for reaching the CL final. An achievement in anyone's book.
Could you re-post it please ?

says he, fully expecting a list of final and semi-final defeats and a long explanation of how Poch failed to motivate the "elite"players we have, as if "elite" players need motivating in a CL final and fully expecting NOT to see the post requested.

I'll leave it there as we always seem to go round in circles. Neither one of us is going to change the other's opinion.
 
Any sort of noticeable change in our mental approach to big games would be nice. Today at 5:30 will be an indicator of if the CL final loss has changed us for the better.

If we panic and concede with in the first 15 minutes like we do against most elite opposition over the past few years, then I myself will start to ask questions.

Yeah I agree with this, it’s a major lesson that needs learning and sorting.

More than a QUARTER of all goals we conceded in UCL were in the first FIVE MINS!!

That’s ridiculous.... and needs rectifying.

:dawsonmean:
 
I must of missed your post where you gave Poch credit for reaching the CL final. An achievement in anyone's book.
Could you re-post it please ?

says he, fully expecting a list of final and semi-final defeats and a long explanation of how Poch failed to motivate the "elite"players we have, as if "elite" players need motivating in a CL final and fully expecting NOT to see the post requested.

I'll leave it there as we always seem to go round in circles. Neither one of us is going to change the other's opinion.


You won’t find it - just like you wouldn’t find me praising Klopp for getting to finals and losing . Simeone is one of my favourites managers - when I list his achievements it will centre on a La Liga win and UEFA cup wins not losing to Real in a CL final.

That is the primary difference here you believe getting to semi finals and finals is enough whereas I don’t. I firmly believe this team is good enough to go all the way and it’s not.

No one cares about the runner up - this isn’t the Olympics, there is no silver medal. You are only remembered if you win. And you know this - if it was Woolwich support let saying this in 2006 or a Liverpool supporter in 2018 you would be saying the exact same thing I am now but somehow it is different when it comes to us.
 

Borodin55

Carpe Diem
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Without wishing to have my head blown off should we not also consider what the players are willing to accept as 'realistic expectations' ?. We have talked on here about regular top four and a good CL run as being acceptable to the supporters but do you think the likes of Harry Kane, Son, Alli etc also feel the same ?

The real estate value of these players has risen dramatically with last season's endeavours as has their earning potential. Kane is now 26 and Son 27 and possibly at their peak powers for demanding lucrative wages. Surely the temptations of a title and trophy laden career on European shores will eventually bring about their departure unless this club shows a genuine financial commitment to try and achieve that success here at Spurs ?

Anybody who 'realistically' puts themselves in Kane's boots will realise he has the future financial stability of his family to consider, together with the natural hunger for silverware. Unless we demonstrate to our top players a similar genuine desire to reach the summit of the Premier league and Europe then surely we have no right to ask for or expect their loyalty.
 
Part of me thinks that if we don't win trophies we'll struggle long term to keep our best players, but at the same time I wonder why these same players didn't turn up in the CL final when they had a genuine shot at winning the best trophy in club football. It was their's for the taking, yet the majority of them played really badly. If they want trophies so bad why aren't they working harder for them?
 
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