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Competition World Cup 2022

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Tomo said:
Question. Would Southgate win the World Cup with Argentina or France?

We can talk about improving players all we want and while I think Southgate has done a good job for his ability I am not sure we will go anywhere without being tactically better.
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Blaming the manager is the easy option, much harder to have a proper discussion regarding the fact the PL ISN'T set up to help the national team, indeed it does the opposite.

We're never going to win anything until people put country before club, which we never will.

In actuality, Southgate has done as well as can be expected with our players. We have some really good ones (Kane, Bellingham, Foden) but not nearly enough hence why we ended up taking only ONE LB to the tournament simply because the only other option (Chilwell) was injured and had to play Maguire because there was nobody else!
 
Tomo said:
Question. Would Southgate win the World Cup with Argentina or France?

We can talk about improving players all we want and while I think Southgate has done a good job for his ability I am not sure we will go anywhere without being tactically better.
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Dunno. Possibly .. I think other than Messi England's squad is significantly better than Argentina's but he is a total gamechanger. Scolari had the rest of the team set up very well round him, arguably whether Southgate could do that.

BUT we were a penalty shootout away from a Euros win, we have to remember that. And we still have big holes in the team in terms of top class defenders, keepers & midfielders. We have at best one world class player (arguably as well) and our depth of talent is meh in a lot of positions.
 
Col_McCafferty said:
Blaming the manager is the easy option, much harder to have a proper discussion regarding the fact the PL ISN'T set up to help the national team, indeed it does the opposite.

We're never going to win anything until people put country before club, which we never will.

In actuality, Southgate has done as well as can be expected with our players. We have some really good ones (Kane, Bellingham, Foden) but not nearly enough hence why we ended up taking only ONE LB to the tournament simply because the only other option (Chilwell) was injured and had to play Maguire because there was nobody else!
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To be fair though this is a very good squad, we don’t have the depth of France or the worlds greatest player like Argentina but it’s easily one of the best sides.

On paper we have a perfect Pep Guardiola team in players like Kane, Foden, Maddison, Saka, Bellingham, Rice etc. I don’t think we play to our strengths, we play conservative when our players are adventurous.

That’s being said yes we need to develop more English players. Our first 11 minus the GK and Maguire is top quality but we could do with a bit extra depth.
 
Tomo said:
To be fair though this is a very good squad, we don’t have the depth of France or the worlds greatest player like Argentina but it’s easily one of the best sides.

On paper we have a perfect Pep Guardiola team in players like Kane, Foden, Maddison, Saka, Bellingham, Rice etc. I don’t think we play to our strengths, we play conservative when our players are adventurous.

That’s being said yes we need to develop more English players. Our first 11 minus the GK and Maguire is top quality but we could do with a bit extra depth.
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We still have two mediocre centre backs, a decent but unexceptional LB, very little creativity in terms of a playmaker from deep in midfield & an Everton player starting in goal. And beyond that we lack anyone on the Messi/Mbappe level. Kane's good but he's a step down from that.

I think we have a really good squad but I really expected us to go out to France, and would've done even with a better on paper coach.
 
Tomo said:
Question. Would Southgate win the World Cup with Argentina or France?

We can talk about improving players all we want and while I think Southgate has done a good job for his ability I am not sure we will go anywhere without being tactically better.
Click to expand...
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No chance.

Any other manager would have had Maddison in the side, or at least attempted sort of tactical variation.

He’s unbelievably one dimensional. Plan B is the same as Plan A, only with Rashford and Grealish.
 
Cranston said:
No chance.

Any other manager would have had Maddison in the side, or at least attempted sort of tactical variation.

He’s unbelievably one dimensional. Plan B is the same as Plan A, only with Rashford and Grealish.
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We definitely can't say no chance when we were a Kane penalty away from ET with France & got to a Euros final under Southgate. If we had a better squad or Messi then there's a solid chance Southgate could be carried to a trophy.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
We definitely can't say no chance when we were a Kane penalty away from ET with France & got to a Euros final under Southgate. If we had a better squad or Messi then there's a solid chance Southgate could be carried to a trophy.
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Yes, you’re probably right, although I still think he’d fuck it up.

Just really, really fucking bored of Southgate at the moment. And bored of some of our players. Kane, in particular. What exactly is he these days?

Reece James will be a big addition.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Maybe. But we had peak Gerrard and still did fuck all, and Bellingham will have done VERY well if he reaches Gerrard's level.
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Gerrard like Scholes was used terribly by England management. I mean we had Hoddle in the 80’s one of the worlds best players and fucked used him as well. England are a mess in terms of management.

England have Bellingham and Rice, a well balanced partnership, that is at least something to build on
 
FutureSkipper said:
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That Qatar dudes face is priceless.

 
Cranston said:
Yes, you’re probably right.

Just really, really fucking bored of Southgate at the moment. And bored of some of our players. Kane, in particular. What exactly is he these days?

Reece James will be a big addition.
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We need a refresh. Don't think we'll get it till after the Euros where the exact same thing will happen - exit to first top team in good form. Southgate has been a good custodian but we need a more inspirational figure at the helm because we're not a France where a steady pair of hands is really all they needed.

James & the likes of Bellingham, Foden, Saka etc having more years of development could be massive but we really need a GK and some centre backs to come through.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
We need to have a conversation about how the influx of foreign talent hurts the development of our players (Hence the likes of Bellingham & Sancho going elsewhere and thriving) but foreign players in our league have made it better & helped make English football great.

Think we do need quotas and limits to it, sometimes our players just don't get the development time that say young French players do in Ligue 1. But that's what we've traded for a top tier league.
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Sancho and Bellingham (top English players) were courted by some of the biggest clubs in the league, they wanted to play first team football more quickly while the likes of Foden thought staying patient would be best. It's due to the fact top clubs in this league where we have 5-7 genuine CL qualifying contenders at any one time are risk adverse. If it wasn't foreign players it would be older nationals.

No other league has the same issues.

Yes some of the less good English players may be being replaced but not at the top.
 
Col_McCafferty said:
Blaming the manager is the easy option, much harder to have a proper discussion regarding the fact the PL ISN'T set up to help the national team, indeed it does the opposite.

We're never going to win anything until people put country before club, which we never will.

In actuality, Southgate has done as well as can be expected with our players. We have some really good ones (Kane, Bellingham, Foden) but not nearly enough hence why we ended up taking only ONE LB to the tournament simply because the only other option (Chilwell) was injured and had to play Maguire because there was nobody else!
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So how did te argentine league put club before country then .??
Next to none of their players play in Argentina, and there is no chance that any of the clubs in England, Italy, Germany, Spain or France will be trying to help the argentine national team...so I think that's a ridiculous argument...I would say our manager is not good enough and the players not ruthless enough...e.g gutless
 
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