Player Yves Bissouma

[TheSpurEst]

Becoming a mess? The mess kicked in around the same time as the fall-out form the chav game and was compounded by cards, further injury and AFCON........ The MF has been in turmoil since game 8 or 9 of the season.

We're only just getting players back....

Bentancur been out for virtually a year and had 1 good game in 3
Maddison finding his feet again.
Sarr half a game.

Rather than that start of a mess we (hopefully) should be finally seeing the return to a settled MF line-up.

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I don't know if you just want to argue for arguing sake or what...

Just look how Ange himself has chopped and changed and substituted and all in midfield, sometimes during half-time intervals. Sometimes between the games.
Then go and watch back the City game in the cup. We had one shot within 90 minutes.
After you have finished that, watch us concede 2 goals in 2 games against relegation-fighting teams that both overplayed us for majority of the game.

Our midfield in past 3 games is as bad as it has ever been under Ange. Agreed - it has been obviously impacted by Bissouma and Sarr being away at AFCON, but we managed to play well without them in some other separate occasions (like ManU for example).

That includes Bentancur that, I agree has been out for long time, but despite that, never looked as bad as this run of games. That includes Skippy who still does not seem to have a real place in that side.

So yes, midfield has been becoming more and more of a mess recently. But with Biss and Sarr returning, there is hope situation will turn around.

 

[Airfixx]

Yeah maybe, anyway my overarching point is that the refs are always gonna be inconsistent and bias in some respect, what can we do to change the narrative? Not give them an excuse to be like that and we certainly don't need to act like diving on a booking is being hard done by.

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Much like Richard Arlison already conceded.... Biss shouldn't have dived. Take that to the bank.

That doesn't mean we're not unfortunate to have been the only team to have been punished as such.

Ditto with his red card v Forest.


Luck v conspiracy? I'm not sure I really care to spend energy on speculating the latter, so perhaps at least grant people the former of the two.

Fair?

 

[Herclueless]

The same manager that just this weekend criticised the refs for expecting VAR to do their job for them?

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There's a really obvious flaw with VAR whereby it's an easy option for refs to just ignore any contentious incident/difficult decision, as it will be looked at by VAR and so the guys in the room will get all the flack, but the nature of VAR only intervening where something is "clear and obvious" means that it's totally impotent for the cases it should be most useful for.

They aren't looking for a foul for the most part, they're looking to see if a refereeing mistake is excusable.

The situation is ref can ignore stuff because of VAR, and VAR is looking to agree with the on field decision to protect their mates, and because clear and obvious gives them an easy escape.

It's pathetic. It's all absolute BS as well, as there is as much contention over decisions/refereeing now as there ever was pre-VAR, only there isn't the old excuse of ref only having one chance to see something live and in real time, so it's even worse.

 

[Shadydan]

Much like Richard Arlison already conceded.... Biss shouldn't have dived. Take that to the bank.

That doesn't mean we're not unfortunate to have been the only team to have been punished as such.

Ditto with his red card v Forest.


Luck v conspiracy? I'm not sure I really care to spend energy on speculating the latter, so perhaps at least grant people the former or the two.

Fair?

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Haven't said anything to the contrary, whilst it's unlucky that's he's been sent off for diving it's hard to have sympathy for him, I'm certainly not sitting here trying to justify it just because other players have gotten away with it.

 

[Airfixx]

I don't know if you just want to argue for arguing sake or what...

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No, I just don't agree with how you evaluated our situation. Meant in the politest sense; I think you've got it ass-backwards.

Equally you clearly don't welcome your opinion being challenged; so lets just cut the psycho-analysis and stay on topic, yeh?

Just look how Ange himself has chopped and changed and substituted and all in midfield, sometimes during half-time intervals. Sometimes between the games.

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Yeh; most of it has been forced by availability issues and yet the few times it's been a tactical decision to change a game it's worked... i.e the HT changes v City away & Brentford at home.

So yes, midfield has been becoming more and more of a mess recently. But with Biss and Sarr returning, there is hope situation will turn around.

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And again; this is where I disagree...... Portraying it as a "recent" development essentially mis-casts the root problem. It's a scenario of disruption that started in October.

Wolves away being depleted and rubbish is the perfect reference point.......

We've barely managed to field the same 3 twice in a row since Luton away. It's not a recent (or begining) phenomena ("mess") and we should realistically see things improve again when Ange has a settled pool to pick from.

 

[Airfixx]

There's a really obvious flaw with VAR whereby it's an easy option for refs to just ignore any contentious incident/difficult decision, as it will be looked at by VAR and so the guys in the room will get all the flack, but the nature of VAR only intervening where something is "clear and obvious" means that it's totally impotent for the cases it should be most useful for.

They aren't looking for a foul for the most part, they're looking to see if a refereeing mistake is excusable.

The situation is ref can ignore stuff because of VAR, and VAR is looking to agree with the on field decision to protect their mates, and because clear and obvious gives them an easy escape.

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...Indeed. It's a scenario which is mimicking the lino's no longer flaggin for offside in realtime.

I agree; it's a self-defeating loop.

It's pathetic. It's all absolute BS as well, as there is as much contention over decisions/refereeing now as there ever was pre-VAR, only there isn't the old excuse of ref only having one chance to see something live and in real time, so it's even worse.

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.....BUT (and this is where our opinions differ) it needn't be this way. VAR ultimately isn't the problem..... It's a tool that should be a net benefit that can HELP the ref's; but the focus is lost in optics and PGMOL politics.

 

[Airfixx]

Haven't said anything to the contrary, whilst it's unlucky that's he's been sent off for diving it's hard to have sympathy for him, I'm certainly not sitting here trying to justify it just because other players have gotten away with it.

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My "sympathy" lies with our club; not the player.... Now maybe one could argue that irrespective of ref consistency I should be angry with the dive; but to me the same doesn't apply to the red v Forest.

 

[Shadydan]

My "sympathy" lies with our club; not the player.... Now maybe one could argue that irrespective of ref consistency I should be angry with the dive; but to me the same doesn't apply to the red v Forest.

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I'd proabably feel the same if we ar being hard done by on a weekly basis, we're not.

 

[Airfixx]

I'd proabably feel the same if we ar being hard done by on a weekly basis, we're not.

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We were not too far back.

 

[Shadydan]

We were not too far back.

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Says every other fanbase in the Premier League, spare me

 

[James78]

.....BUT (and this is where our opinions differ) it needn't be this way. VAR ultimately isn't the problem..... It's a tool that should be a net benefit that can HELP the ref's; but the focus is lost in optics and PGMOL politics.

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Are there any leagues where VAR does actually work well and the fans mostly like it ? Genuine question.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Says every other fanbase in the Premier League, spare me

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Which kind of holds up there's a systemic issue with how the refs are applying the rules thing..

 

[Airfixx]

Are there any leagues where VAR does actually work well and the fans mostly like it ? Genuine question.

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No idea....... I've seen it work better than this in the Russia world cup tho'.

 

[Shadydan]

Which kind of holds up there's a systemic issue with how the refs are applying the rules thing..

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Refs are bad, not just for us - for everyone, this is not news.

 

[Block252]

Refs are bad, not just for us - for everyone, this is not news.

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100%. Never known so much whining about refs in a season.

 

[TheSpurEst]

No, I just don't agree with how you evaluated our situation. Meant in the politest sense; I think you've got it ass-backwards.

Equally you clearly don't welcome your opinion being challenged; so lets just cut the psycho-analysis and stay on topic, yeh?



Yeh; most of it has been forced by availability issues and yet the few times it's been a tactical decision to change a game it's worked... i.e the HT changes v City away & Brentford at home.



And again; this is where I disagree...... Portraying it as a "recent" development essentially mis-casts the root problem. It's a scenario of disruption that started in October.

Wolves away being depleted and rubbish is the perfect reference point.......

We've barely managed to field the same 3 twice in a row since Luton away. It's not a recent (or begining) phenomena ("mess") and we should realistically see things improve again when Ange has a settled pool to pick from.

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Do we speak in different languages or what?

PEH, Skippy, Benta and Kulu have been available throughout last games (Kulu missing 1). What availability issues regarding them? Yet chopping and changing have been between those players.

Yea, sure. Our midfield issues started aaaaaal thee waaay back when Modric left and got amplified when Dembele lost his form. If we go into archeology then why not full in?
Yet we did play well against Bournemouth on 31.12 and ManU 14.01. But following three games have been absolute trainwreck in midfield with 0 control over three game period. One against City (but much worse than away game when we were also missing Bentancur, Sarr and Madders!) and two against relegation-fighting teams.

 

[Airfixx]

Do we speak in different languages or what?

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Meh.

PEH, Skippy, Benta and Kulu have been available throughout last games (Kulu missing 1). What availability issues regarding them? Yet chopping and changing have been between those players.

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If you think Sarr, Benta & Maddison are all sharp and all back to normal then more fool you.

Yea, sure. Our midfield issues started aaaaaal thee waaay back when Modric left and got amplified when Dembele lost his form. If we go into archeology then why not full in?

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Meh.

 

[TheSpurEst]

If you think Sarr, Benta & Maddison are all sharp and all back to normal then more fool you.

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Thank you for proving that you argue for arguing sake and 100% ignoring that issues have worsened when in fact Benta and Madders have had MORE time to gather form.

Bringing Sarr into it is next level bullshittery given he has like 15 minutes played in this 3 game spell.

Jog on.

 

[Airfixx]

Thank you for proving that you argue for arguing sake and 100% ignoring that issues have worsened when in fact Benta and Madders have had MORE time to gather form.

Bringing Sarr into it is next level bullshittery given he has like 15 minutes played in this 3 game spell.

Jog on.

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You were right... We must be speaking a different language.

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

Does he start this weekend?