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Guido said:
He's not saying "Manc". There isn't any confusion here. Do you think he's saying Manc?

Last week there was an initial still photograph of a banana skin lying on the edge of a football pitch with Aubameyang 20ft in the background, a few hours later another was released showing it on the floor in front of a bunch of Woolwich players. There wasn't a single piece of "live" footage of the act of it being thrown from the Spurs fans let alone from the individual culprit. Whilst it would have been odd for it to have been thrown by a Woolwich fan there was no proof from the photograph that it wasn't. My defence (it wasn't actually a defense it was a call to wait and see before pointing the finger) last week was you need to see the act taking place, then you need to prove it was racially motivated and I said if the guy that's thrown it shouted something racist then that's him banged to rights. None of which was in anyway evident to anyone viewing a still photograph. As it turned out, it was right to stand back and wait until it was investigated.
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I don't believe he said manc.

But if, take Sterling out of this for now, he came out saying he said manc, and those around him backed him up, would you take him at his word?

Because that is all we did last week. Took a man and people around him at his word.
 
Spursdem said:
I don't believe he said manc.

But if, take Sterling out of this for now, he came out saying he said manc, and those around him backed him up, would you take him at his word?

Because that is all we did last week. Took a man and people around him at his word.
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Last week there was a still photograph of a banana on the edge of the pitch, no act of it even being thrown, could have been a cameraman dropped it for all we know.

This week we have live footage and you can clearly see him shouting racist abuse. Why take the victim out of it? It's all about the victim(s).
 
sammyspurs said:
Also, that guy was also abusing Sterling, along with hundreds of others. May not have heard it, and may not have fancied getting his head kicked in.

Difference here is that Spurs fans wouldnt stand for it, en masse, and Chelsea fans would/have/do/will
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How many Spurs fans (in the ground) took a stand against the twat that threw the banana skin last week?
 
Guido said:
Last week there was a still photograph of a banana on the edge of the pitch, no act of it even being thrown, could have been a cameraman dropped it for all we know.

This week we have live footage and you can clearly see him shouting racist abuse. Why take the victim out of it? It's all about the victim(s).
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I'm taking the victim out of it because the discussion isn't about him.

It's about the hypocrisy shown by those in here who were scandalised that someone could make the horrifying decision that banana from crowd + black footballer = racism.

You say you clearly see him say black. And I'm telling you there are others that think he said manc. But you are just lucky enough to be right.

If it turned out that Sterling came out saying I don't know what was said and the bloke denied it, would you take his word for it?

Somehow, I imagine you wouldn't. That is my issue.

I was battered for taking historical context into account last week, yet before Sterling's post, that's what people were doing. Taking Chelsea's history into account.
 
Spursdem said:
I'm taking the victim out of it because the discussion isn't about him.

It's about the hypocrisy shown by those in here who were scandalised that someone could make the horrifying decision that banana from crowd + black footballer = racism.

You say you clearly see him say black. And I'm telling you there are others that think he said manc. But you are just lucky enough to be right.

If it turned out that Sterling came out saying I don't know what was said and the bloke denied it, would you take his word for it?

Somehow, I imagine you wouldn't. That is my issue.

I was battered for taking historical context into account last week, yet before Sterling's post, that's what people were doing. Taking Chelsea's history into account.
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Not me mate, didn't say a thing until there are more facts out, namely Sterlings evidence, no different than last week.

But sterling did hear, I don't see the point on commenting on a different scenario than the one that actually played out.
 
I find it funny people are pointing fingers about which club is "racist" and which club has more "tolerant" fans. After all, this is football we are talking about. There's no surprise racism is taking place in England or any other European countries, as football is a sport mostly watched, followed and played by the working class, who tend to be uneducated.

Now, if these racism stories were taking place during Wimbledon or a rugby match, then that would be a crazy thing to hear.
 
worsted said:
I find it funny people are pointing fingers about which club is "racist" and which club has more "tolerant" fans. After all, this is football we are talking about. There's no surprise racism is taking place in England or any other European countries, as football is a sport mostly watched, followed and played by the working class, who tend to be uneducated.

Now, if these racism stories were taking place during Wimbledon or a rugby match, then that would be a crazy thing to hear.
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Right, so only working class people can be guilty of racism? Fucking troll.
 
worsted said:
I find it funny people are pointing fingers about which club is "racist" and which club has more "tolerant" fans. After all, this is football we are talking about. There's no surprise racism is taking place in England or any other European countries, as football is a sport mostly watched, followed and played by the working class, who tend to be uneducated.

Now, if these racism stories were taking place during Wimbledon or a rugby match, then that would be a crazy thing to hear.
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Most ethnic minorities are working class people. I grew up in Broadwater farm (council estate in Tottenham) I would say that being working class results in people being more tolerant of other people’s cultures (most of the time), because we are all in the shit together.

I also wouldn’t say that working class means you are uneducated, it doesn’t work that way any more, we are all entitled to an education and the ciriculums are practically identical country wide.

In fact I would argue that because working class people go to school in deprived areas where ethnicities are diverse, they are far more educated in the matter of other people’s cultures, than middle class people are in “better schools” where the attendees are predominantly Caucasian.
 
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worsted said:
I find it funny people are pointing fingers about which club is "racist" and which club has more "tolerant" fans. After all, this is football we are talking about. There's no surprise racism is taking place in England or any other European countries, as football is a sport mostly watched, followed and played by the working class, who tend to be uneducated.

Now, if these racism stories were taking place during Wimbledon or a rugby match, then that would be a crazy thing to hear.
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Working class tend to be uneducated......fuck off!
 
Bill Madrid said:
Sterling has said “Regarding what was said at the Chelsea game, as you can see by my reaction, I just had to laugh because I don’t expect no better”

You'd have thought if it was "Manc" he would have said it wasn't a racist thing.

By the way, I make him right in the comparison he makes here...

Raheem Sterling accuses newspapers of ‘fuelling racism’ after alleged abuse at Chelsea
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I made my comments before I knew what Sterling had said and was giving the benefit if the doubt, innocent till proven guilty etc, to the offender, which has obviously now been proven wrong.

I was looking at the press reports Sterling mention and I have to agree with both him and you.
Here they both are in full.
I hadn't seen either of them before.

Man City footballer a week buys home on market for £2.25m | Daily Mail Online

Manchester City starlet Phil Foden buys new £2m home for his mum | Daily Mail Online

Anyone who has seen my comments on the TR thread knows how I feel about racism.

This raises a further question that's raised in the article you posted.
I didn't know this, but if a player is racially abused he can report it to the referee and the referee can then order the offending person to be ejected from the ground.
I'm in 2 minds about this as in, it could bring a shit load of further abuse onto any player that does it. On the other hand, how else can the offenders be caught and punished. The cameras and stewards can't be at every point in the ground and also most stewards are supporters of the clubs and are not going to grass up one of their own.
 
stevee said:
I made my comments before I knew what Sterling had said and was giving the benefit if the doubt, innocent till proven guilty etc, to the offender, which has obviously now been proven wrong.

I was looking at the press reports Sterling mention and I have to agree with both him and you.
Here they both are in full.
I hadn't seen either of them before.

Man City footballer a week buys home on market for £2.25m | Daily Mail Online

Manchester City starlet Phil Foden buys new £2m home for his mum | Daily Mail Online

Anyone who has seen my comments on the TR thread knows how I feel about racism.

This raises a further question that's raised in the article you posted.
I didn't know this, but if a player is racially abused he can report it to the referee and the referee can then order the offending person to be ejected from the ground.
I'm in 2 minds about this as in, it could bring a shit load of further abuse onto any player that does it. On the other hand, how else can the offenders be caught and punished. The cameras and stewards can't be at every point in the ground and also most stewards are supporters of the clubs and are not going to grass up one of their own.
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Sorry if you thought I was accusing you of anything, I really wasn't, in fact I hadn't read back so didn't know what people were saying
 
Bill Madrid said:
Sorry if you thought I was accusing you of anything, I really wasn't, in fact I hadn't read back so didn't know what people were saying
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Nah it's fine. Nobody was saying anything.
I was just making a general point. in case anyone thought different.

Do you think that Sterling should have reported it to the ref, or would doing that have brought him more grief.
 
stevee said:
Nah it's fine. Nobody was saying anything.
I was just making a general point. in case anyone thought different.

Do you think that Sterling should have reported it to the ref, or would doing that have brought him more grief.
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I really don't know. Maybe, but then he would get a reputation as a snitch perhaps we're brought up to hate. But is it wrong to point out wrongdoers?

It's a credit to Raheem Sterling that he didn't go full Cantona
 
Joe Clash said:
Right, so only working class people can be guilty of racism? Fucking troll.
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Where do I ever say only working class can be guilty of racism?
Racism comes in many forms, and it has nothing to do with one's education or social status. The more educated someone is, the racism becomes more subtle, and this becomes "covert racism".
The difference is that, someone is uneducated and working class, is likely to be openly racist and less able to disguise their views.....as that Chelsea fan or the Spurs fan throwing banana at Auba.
Football in Europe/England doesn't just have issues with racism......also homophobia, misogyny and the list goes on. In other words, football is still very backwards. It's actually nothing to do with the sport itself but rather the followers.
 
Joshking5 said:
Most ethnic minorities are working class people. I grew up in Broadwater farm (council estate in Tottenham) I would say that being working class results in people being more tolerant of other people’s cultures (most of the time), because we are all in the shit together.

I also wouldn’t say that working class means you are uneducated, it doesn’t work that way any more, we are all entitled to an education and the ciriculums are practically identical country wide.

In fact I would argue that because working class people go to school in deprived areas where ethnicities are diverse, they are far more educated in the matter of other people’s cultures, than middle class people are in “better schools” where the attendees are predominantly Caucasian.
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I've already replied back to someone else but someone who is educated, could very well be racist but they are able to be subtle about their views and disguise their hatred.
Someone like that Chelsea fan or the Spurs fan throwing banana at Auba, represent the majority demographic of football fans in the UK, in terms of social status/education.
I am no way suggesting all the working class are racist. There were 41k people at that stadium during the game and I'm sure the racism towards Sterling was only confined to about 1-2 individuals.

I am in full agreement about the working class not being racist....which is true. Your points about deprived areas and ethnic minorities make sense as well. To play devils advocate, a lot of working class support people like Tommy Robinson and UKIP. I'm sure Tommy Robinson prides himself as the "working class hero" yet his views are very racist and he was brought up in a very multicultural area, so I don't think that multicultural point works.
 
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