Match Ratings - Swansea (H)

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Most were pot-shots, but being in the box for rebounds is something I do think Defoe is very good at. He also was very good at looking for the 3-4 yards in front of the keeper every time we had a finish on target.

However, Defoe shoots a lot. Even when he should not have. That is what you call decisionmaking, and unfortunately that is where he lacks a bit, yet.



He was very flat by his own standards, but he was also crucial for our play in breaking down the opposition, because he is so very good at finding space even in tight spaces and holding up the ball. And he is proactive, creating plays and chances, not waiting for them to fall to him.

We need that. People talk about our problems breaking down defending teams. Adebayor is a key to that, so much more after we sold VdV and Modric.



Correct. Which a modern striker has to deal with, no discussion.



They are supposed to shift and turn every other monent to constantly find a yard or two for the wall pass, then shift and move again. As opposed to standing between Chico and Williams, in the shadow of Britton, waving your arms when passes elude one. Sorry if harsh, but this point needs to be made.



No. That's just a straw man.



... and that's another straw man.



Neither do I. He is not a poor player. He is just not performing well right now and not responding well to the demands of the system, the formation changes and the way defences play him.

The problem is, that despite having true strikers quality of getting a goal out of nowhere, he is burdened by not contributing much to the team apart from said goals. He is difficult to put in a team, because it has to built around him, and even if you do the goal count is erratic and defences can still shut him down.



If every other footballer needs to adapt, why not strikers generally - and why not Defoe specifically ?

You accuse me of jumping on a bandwagon. I could easily accuse you of being on a different one, but that doesn't get us very far, does it ?

Regards

I take it you play the manager games on your pc a lot.
Adebayor wooulkd be crucial if he did the things that he was good at, more than once or twice a game - as would Defoe.
I have better things to do at the momenmt than to simply trot out tactical cliches, I know what I saw happen on the pitch, and sadly your analysis of what happened doesn't match up to reality.

I do agree with the fact that some of your synopsis is correct, but there are flaws in every player we have in our team, and I don't see any other players being gutted for the things they did wrong.
Defoe has attempted to change his game to suit the team needs, but he will always revert to type when he has an Ade on the pitch with him, because its in his DNA. Unlike the rest of the pro evolution analysers, I accept that and value him for what he does for the side - and stop hoping that he will transform into a cross between Pele.Cruyff and Muller overnight, because you - and people like you have swallowed the uber analysis pap wholesale.

What bandwagon am I on? the only one you could logicsally accuse me of being is the reality, heads up and watch the game you see and not the game you imagine bandwagon. I'm happy to ride that one?

You need to work out what a straw man argument is, becauyse there is a world of difference between me constructing arguments you never articulated, and just simply taking the mickey out of what you say.

Your point about Defoes play wasn't harsh at all, it was just wrong.

I see you are committed to denouncing Defoe as being rubbish, so its your right to hold that opinion, I'm not trying to persuade you to change your mind, but it would be nice if you tried watching what happens, instead of searching for incidents that might fit into your preconceptions.

Which ever way you look at it - Defoe wasn't a 1/10, and Dembele was well short of a 10/10
 
I take it you play the manager games on your pc a lot.
Adebayor wooulkd be crucial if he did the things that he was good at, more than once or twice a game - as would Defoe.
I have better things to do at the momenmt than to simply trot out tactical cliches, I know what I saw happen on the pitch, and sadly your analysis of what happened doesn't match up to reality.

I do agree with the fact that some of your synopsis is correct, but there are flaws in every player we have in our team, and I don't see any other players being gutted for the things they did wrong.
Defoe has attempted to change his game to suit the team needs, but he will always revert to type when he has an Ade on the pitch with him, because its in his DNA. Unlike the rest of the pro evolution analysers, I accept that and value him for what he does for the side - and stop hoping that he will transform into a cross between Pele.Cruyff and Muller overnight, because you - and people like you have swallowed the uber analysis pap wholesale.

What bandwagon am I on? the only one you could logicsally accuse me of being is the reality, heads up and watch the game you see and not the game you imagine bandwagon. I'm happy to ride that one?

You need to work out what a straw man argument is, becauyse there is a world of difference between me constructing arguments you never articulated, and just simply taking the mickey out of what you say.

Your point about Defoes play wasn't harsh at all, it was just wrong.

I see you are committed to denouncing Defoe as being rubbish, so its your right to hold that opinion, I'm not trying to persuade you to change your mind, but it would be nice if you tried watching what happens, instead of searching for incidents that might fit into your preconceptions.

Which ever way you look at it - Defoe wasn't a 1/10, and Dembele was well short of a 10/10

"Playing PC games", "commited to denouncing", "tried watching", "the game you imagine". Seriously, what is all that about on a football forum for commons fans ?

For the reasons I hightlighted, I am exiting this debate now.

Safe to say we should agree to disagree.

As a parting shot, I'd mention that I never rated Defoe as a 1. But I presume that was a void fact, as it is pretty have already made up your mind more about me than I have ever regardingDefoe ...
: ostrich:
 
Mmmm
Defoe 5
The same Defoe that ran his bollocks off for the entire time he was on the pitch, was a constant noightmare to their defence, but for a couple of great stops and blocks could have had a hattrick, and the guy who set up several opportunities for colleagues and carried the Spurs attack all on his own.

and you gave him 5/10 and want to see him benched

WHO FUCKING FOR EINSTEIN?

Jesus, did you start watching football at the start of december?
Strikers aren't paid to run around the pitch like a headless chicken
 
So, adding the scores so far - three won 'Man of the Match'

:dembele: :sandro: :llorishuh:


And we'd like to see lots of goals against Stoke on Saturday from


:defoe2: and :adegrin:


And it could be a Merry Christmas all round with a proper THIRD in the table,
instead of THIRD equal on points with Chavski.

PS Best of luck to Reading at home tonight
 
"Playing PC games", "commited to denouncing", "tried watching", "the game you imagine". Seriously, what is all that about on a football forum for commons fans ?

For the reasons I hightlighted, I am exiting this debate now.

Safe to say we should agree to disagree.

As a parting shot, I'd mention that I never rated Defoe as a 1. But I presume that was a void fact, as it is pretty have already made up your mind more about me than I have ever regardingDefoe ...
: ostrich:
I haven't made my mind up about you at all, you are irrelevant to the discussion. I have made up my mind about the comments that you offered up for debate, and I disagree with some of them - and am fed up with seeing the erroneous rubbish that gets puked up and you chose to regurgitate.

The comments that you so histrionically are flouncing off to avoid are merely responses to your posts, you are responsible for what you write so you (like me) have to deal with the fact that what you say is not gospel (just because it came from you) and neither is it guaranteed to be right.

You and I have differing opinions but I'm not proclaiming you to be a lesser supporter, or less of a man because I believe you to be wrong. I'm simply standing up for my opinions.
 
I haven't made my mind up about you at all, you are irrelevant to the discussion. I have made up my mind about the comments that you offered up for debate, and I disagree with some of them - and am fed up with seeing the erroneous rubbish that gets puked up and you chose to regurgitate.

The comments that you so histrionically are flouncing off to avoid are merely responses to your posts, you are responsible for what you write so you (like me) have to deal with the fact that what you say is not gospel (just because it came from you) and neither is it guaranteed to be right.

You and I have differing opinions but I'm not proclaiming you to be a lesser supporter, or less of a man because I believe you to be wrong. I'm simply standing up for my opinions.
Jermaine Defoe is in the team for one reason and one reason only: he knows how to score. Sure he works hard but there comes a point when thats not good enough. When he is not scoring, he is harming the team. Someone pointed out earlier that he gave the ball away 9 times off of his first touch. That is not good enough. He does nothing to break down defenses, and shoots when he should pass.

You said earlier that he set up many of our attacks and lead the attack on his own, this simply not true. Adebayor was right with him supporting him and the way Dempsey cut in he was basically playing behind him during attacks. He did nothing to set up attacks, that was all done by Ade, Dempsey, Dembele, Lennon, and Siggy at the end. He is one dimensional and quite frankley, deserved a 5/10. Wasted opportunities, losing possession, bad decision making, all that he did well was that he ran around a lot, which isnt good enough.

Dont get me wrong, I like Jermaine Defoe. He is one of the best finishers in the league and gives us a huge boost because of that. But when he is not scoring goals, saying that he worked hard is not good enough because he does not bring enough else to the table.
 
Adebayor wasnt fit, we didnt have any other option, and he bagged some goals so now it seems wrong to drop him?

I for one do not think he should be dropped. Adebayor wasn't fit and now he's possibly injured yet again.

Because I like him and because I still hope he can develop. If only one or two aspects of his game could have a huge impact to his contribution to the team.

Right now, though, I think the critics are fair, when pointing towards the obvious facts.
 
I love Defoe to bits and am amazed at just how well he has played this season, he has done things I never credited him as able to do.

That said, all things being equal, for this team Adebayor is the only and obvious choice.

I expect this to be the way things pan out eventually.
 
Jermaine Defoe is in the team for one reason and one reason only: he knows how to score. Sure he works hard but there comes a point when thats not good enough. When he is not scoring, he is harming the team. Someone pointed out earlier that he gave the ball away 9 times off of his first touch. That is not good enough. He does nothing to break down defenses, and shoots when he should pass.

You said earlier that he set up many of our attacks and lead the attack on his own, this simply not true. Adebayor was right with him supporting him and the way Dempsey cut in he was basically playing behind him during attacks. He did nothing to set up attacks, that was all done by Ade, Dempsey, Dembele, Lennon, and Siggy at the end. He is one dimensional and quite frankley, deserved a 5/10. Wasted opportunities, losing possession, bad decision making, all that he did well was that he ran around a lot, which isnt good enough.

Dont get me wrong, I like Jermaine Defoe. He is one of the best finishers in the league and gives us a huge boost because of that. But when he is not scoring goals, saying that he worked hard is not good enough because he does not bring enough else to the table.
I disagree, he isn't in the team to set up attacks or break down defences at all, neither is Gallas or Loris. In a team everyone has a part to play, and Defoe did that throughout the game. He set up a gilt edged opportunity for Walker who fell as he tried to shoot, and I saw him tackling back on more than one occasion, as well as the movement that he showed on several occasions where he had opportunities saved or blocked. He had one clear opportunity that for some reason he went for power when he could have chipped the keeper like his goal against Fulham (IIRC) - which given his overall play and contribution hardly marks him out as average and in need of dropping.

I fucking hate getting dragged into discussions like this, as I don't want to be seen as some blind myopic fanboy - but neither do I want to see him castigated and condemned simply because he didn't score a hat-trick.

Your comment "when he's not scoring he is harming the team" is possibly one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever seen.
 
Mmmm
Defoe 5
The same Defoe that ran his bollocks off for the entire time he was on the pitch, was a constant noightmare to their defence, but for a couple of great stops and blocks could have had a hattrick, and the guy who set up several opportunities for colleagues and carried the Spurs attack all on his own.

and you gave him 5/10 and want to see him benched

WHO FUCKING FOR EINSTEIN?

Jesus, did you start watching football at the start of december?

No reason to name-call here.............Its just a POV.

When i look at a Strikers performance, I want Goals and strong hold-up play --> Defoe was pretty terrible at both vs Swansea.

But thats pretty awesome he actually gave an effort the entire game.......I mean, considering he makes what in wages a week and he worked his arse off is such an accomplishment these days..

Maybe you should expect more out of Spurs......I certainly do.

J Jenas used to work his socks off as well............In the end, its about the end product of quality that matters. And Defoe didn't supply it on any level vs Swansea

Super Sub for me............One moment of brilliance. And plenty of spot starts through out the year ..........that is Defoe's ideal role for me.
 
I disagree, he isn't in the team to set up attacks or break down defences at all, neither is Gallas or Loris. In a team everyone has a part to play, and Defoe did that throughout the game. He set up a gilt edged opportunity for Walker who fell as he tried to shoot, and I saw him tackling back on more than one occasion, as well as the movement that he showed on several occasions where he had opportunities saved or blocked. He had one clear opportunity that for some reason he went for power when he could have chipped the keeper like his goal against Fulham (IIRC) - which given his overall play and contribution hardly marks him out as average and in need of dropping.

I fucking hate getting dragged into discussions like this, as I don't want to be seen as some blind myopic fanboy - but neither do I want to see him castigated and condemned simply because he didn't score a hat-trick.

Your comment "when he's not scoring he is harming the team" is possibly one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever seen.


Exactly on Defoe.........Its feast or famine w/ him.

When he isn't scoring , he isn't doing much else.

If the Spurs are serious about a possession-oriented like last year, he is a bad fit...........
 
I disagree, he isn't in the team to set up attacks or break down defences at all, neither is Gallas or Loris. In a team everyone has a part to play, and Defoe did that throughout the game. He set up a gilt edged opportunity for Walker who fell as he tried to shoot, and I saw him tackling back on more than one occasion, as well as the movement that he showed on several occasions where he had opportunities saved or blocked. He had one clear opportunity that for some reason he went for power when he could have chipped the keeper like his goal against Fulham (IIRC) - which given his overall play and contribution hardly marks him out as average and in need of dropping.

I fucking hate getting dragged into discussions like this, as I don't want to be seen as some blind myopic fanboy - but neither do I want to see him castigated and condemned simply because he didn't score a hat-trick.

Your comment "when he's not scoring he is harming the team" is possibly one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever seen.


Just like Crouch a few years ago.............Very Productive statistically, but counter-productive to our preferred tactics of possession-oriented attack...........Defoe is in a similar boat currently. Not enough technical ability and not enough depth to his game .
 
@WhoScored: Jermain Defoe: Lost possession due to a poor first touch 9 times vs Swansea yesterday - more than any other player in a PL game this season


Exactly Windy........You nailed it

Throw in all his few attempts w/ the goal gaping..........He had a poor game .
 
Exactly Windy........You nailed it

Throw in all his few attempts w/ the goal gaping..........He had a poor game .
gaping - apart from all the defenders and goalkeeping blocks that prevented him from scoring.........

you like statistics - ignoring the one from the game where his passing was 90+% - how about these stats, that have him as the highest scoring striker we've had in the premiership era and in sight of becoming the 5th highest of all time this season.

He won't score goals whilst sat in the stands, and my point was simple. Who will you play instead?

I've been alive long enough to have seen 7 of them play, and as general principle - it makes no sense whatsoever to bench your top scorer, unless you have a better one.

Greaves Jimmy 266
Smith Bobby 208
Chivers Martin 174
Jones Cliff 159
Hunt GS 138
Duquemin Len 134
Gilzean Alan 133
Defoe Jermaine 131
Sheringham Teddy 124
 
No reason to name-call here.............Its just a POV.

When i look at a Strikers performance, I want Goals and strong hold-up play --> Defoe was pretty terrible at both vs Swansea.

But thats pretty awesome he actually gave an effort the entire game.......I mean, considering he makes what in wages a week and he worked his arse off is such an accomplishment these days..

Maybe you should expect more out of Spurs......I certainly do.

J Jenas used to work his socks off as well............In the end, its about the end product of quality that matters. And Defoe didn't supply it on any level vs Swansea

Super Sub for me............One moment of brilliance. And plenty of spot starts through out the year ..........that is Defoe's ideal role for me.
I've been supporting the club for longer than 5 minutes sunshine, I've seen the best striker in the world play for the club, so I think my expectations are likely to be grounded, real and resonable.
 
Here's a stat, based upon multiple opinions throughout the season i.e. match ratings from forum members.

Excluding this game, Defoe has played 21 games this season. A third of his games have been sub-5.5 performances, only equalled by Dempsey, in all the games he has not scored he's never had an average rating higher than the team average and in a couple of games where he has scored he has still had an average rating lower than the team average.

Throughout the season he has one of the highest standard deviations than any other player, i.e. he has no consistency in his ratings, they vary from anything in the 4s to anything in the 8s. His average rating for the season is also below the average of all games played.

He is also our top scorer and with 4 man of the match performances, joint highest with Vertonghen, he also has the highest rating of the season in a single match with 8.70 when he got his hattrick against Maribor.

What this tells me is exactly what has already been said in this thread and others in that he contributes goals and when he doesn't he has not much else to fall back on.

TommyHarmer TommyHarmer any chance of getting your ratings in games as well or is that something that does not interest you for the purposes of these threads?
 
gaping - apart from all the defenders and goalkeeping blocks that prevented him from scoring.........

you like statistics - ignoring the one from the game where his passing was 90+% - how about these stats, that have him as the highest scoring striker we've had in the premiership era and in sight of becoming the 5th highest of all time this season.

He won't score goals whilst sat in the stands, and my point was simple. Who will you play instead?

I've been alive long enough to have seen 7 of them play, and as general principle - it makes no sense whatsoever to bench your top scorer, unless you have a better one.

Greaves Jimmy 266
Smith Bobby 208
Chivers Martin 174
Jones Cliff 159
Hunt GS 138
Duquemin Len 134
Gilzean Alan 133
Defoe Jermaine 131
Sheringham Teddy 124


Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

This thread here is Match Ratings for the Spurs / Swansea fixure from yesterday......

What does his overall contribution to the club and his performances outside of yesterday have to do w/ his Match rating from yesterday ? LMAO
 
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