The new poch out poll

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Poch out?

  • Yes poch out

    Votes: 172 44.6%

  • No poch stays

    Votes: 214 55.4%
  • Total voters
    386
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MVP said:
A few yeah but that's not really the point.
They are the employers, they take some credit for our progress in the league from when they took over, surely they must take some of the blame for 99% of managers that they employed not winning anything.
If not then they can't take credit for anything that happens on the pitch.
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I’d give the board a minuscule amount of credit for success on the pitch. The least I expect from a board is to provide their manager with the money to buy players, with a stadium of quality to play in, with a quality training ground, all whilst not putting the long term financial health of the club in doubt. I think ENIC have done this and therefore give them the tiny percentage of credit for doing so.

Once they’ve delivered the above, it’s up to the well paid and well travelled scouting team to come up with the right players to add to the squad. It’s up to the manager and coaches to ensure we play form players in the right formation and allow rotation to guard against injuries and lack of form. And it’s up to the players to defend and attack effectively.

Who is due credit for success or derision for failure?

1. Players
2. Manager
3. Coaches
4. Scouts
5. Board

In that order.
 
pipes said:
I’d give the board a minuscule amount of credit for success on the pitch. The least I expect from a board is to provide their manager with the money to buy players, with a stadium of quality to play in, with a quality training ground, all whilst not putting the long term financial health of the club in doubt. I think ENIC have done this and therefore give them the tiny percentage of credit for doing so.

Once they’ve delivered the above, it’s up to the well paid and well travelled scouting team to come up with the right players to add to the squad. It’s up to the manager and coaches to ensure we play form players in the right formation and allow rotation to guard against injuries and lack of form. And it’s up to the players to defend and attack effectively.

Who is due credit for success or derision for failure?

1. Players
2. Manager
3. Coaches
4. Scouts
5. Board

In that order.
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Good post.
The players have been appalling but if a manager can lose a while dressing room to this extent then I don’t see how I can back him.

It will just happen again.
I know the talent in the squad and it needs a new manager to unlock it again.
 
sammyspurs said:
Every time you bring this up (once a week) you are told by people that our goals 15 years ago were not the same as today.

So the managers up until now have improved us, by and large, bar Ramos ( who at least won a cup) and AVB.

Even Poch improved us.

Now it’s time to improve again and reach that fabled next level.
Some people believe Poch is not the man to do that anymore despite him being a good appointment and doing a good job for 4 and half seasons.

Wanting to win trophies under Jol or Harry, doesn’t make any of the above void.
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Hoddle improved us? Sherwood improved us?
The next level is 1st in the prem and CL winners, realistically Howe isn't going to do that is he?
 
MVP said:
Hoddle improved us? Sherwood improved us?
The next level is 1st in the prem and CL winners, realistically Howe isn't going to do that is he?
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Yes Hoddle improved us. Then it went downhill and he was rightly sacked for (eventually) Jol, who was wrongly sacked.
But Ramos won a trophy, so somewhat redeemed.
Then he was rightly sacked for Redknapp who improved us and was wrongly sacked.

Levys biggest mistake in my opinion and set us back five years, to get back to where we was under Redknapp.

AVB was rightly sacked for Poch who improved us.
As I just explained some people now believe it’s time to repeat the process, as they feel we have reached the end of this era.

Your next level might be the PL and CL, but my next level is challenging for the title regularly and winning some domestics along the way until we can actually win a bigger trophy.
 
pipes said:
I’d give the board a minuscule amount of credit for success on the pitch. The least I expect from a board is to provide their manager with the money to buy players, with a stadium of quality to play in, with a quality training ground, all whilst not putting the long term financial health of the club in doubt. I think ENIC have done this and therefore give them the tiny percentage of credit for doing so.

Once they’ve delivered the above, it’s up to the well paid and well travelled scouting team to come up with the right players to add to the squad. It’s up to the manager and coaches to ensure we play form players in the right formation and allow rotation to guard against injuries and lack of form. And it’s up to the players to defend and attack effectively.

Who is due credit for success or derision for failure?

1. Players
2. Manager
3. Coaches
4. Scouts
5. Board

In that order.
Click to expand...
I think you're letting off ENIC pretty easy there and certainly there are many past managers who can lay claim to not getting the players they were promised. Where should we be as a club with the money ENIC has provided?
 
sammyspurs said:
Yes Hoddle improved us. Then it went downhill and he was rightly sacked for (eventually) Jol, who was wrongly sacked.
But Ramos won a trophy, so somewhat redeemed.
Then he was rightly sacked for Redknapp who improved us and was wrongly sacked.

Levys biggest mistake in my opinion and set us back five years, to get back to where we was under Redknapp.

AVB was rightly sacked for Poch who improved us.
As I just explained some people now believe it’s time to repeat the process, as they feel we have reached the end of this era.

Your next level might be the PL and CL, but my next level is challenging for the title regularly and winning some domestics along the way until we can actually win a bigger trophy.
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So 1st and 2nd place in the prem plus league cup or FA cup? This is after you expected to win nothing for 13+years, we get the new man in you expect to win nothing again for a year or two, then if he doesnt win anything at the end of that period, you start complaining he should be sacked and the whole process starts again. You might as well stick to the 20 year project idea.
 
MVP said:
Hoddle improved us? Sherwood improved us?
The next level is 1st in the prem and CL winners, realistically Howe isn't going to do that is he?
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ENIC certainly deserve blame for Sherwood. That was a horrible decision. One which was so bad I’ve sort of wiped from my memory. So yes, fuck Levy for that one, in that we are in agreement.
 
MVP said:
So 1st and 2nd place in the prem plus league cup or FA cup?
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Really? Well that’s funny because I said next level would be:

sammyspurs said:
challenging for the title regularly and winning some domestics along the way
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Coming 1st is not challenging for the title, it’s winning the title.
You can come 4th and have realistically mounted a serious title challenge.

That’s why I said the money spent by ENIC is good enough for:
sammyspurs said:
Top 4 and a few Carabous and FA cups
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sammyspurs said:
Really? Well that’s funny because I said next level would be:



Coming 1st is it challenging for the title, it’s winning the title.
You can come 4th and have realistically mounted a serious title challenge.

That’s why I said the money spent by ENIC is good enough for:
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Well Poch has achieved half of what you're asking for.
 
MVP said:
I think you're letting off ENIC pretty easy there and certainly there are many past managers who can lay claim to not getting the players they were promised. Where should we be as a club with the money ENIC has provided?
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Maybe so, but on the other hand, they get very little credit from me for our on pitch successes. It wasn’t Levy that scored against Ajax to get us to the final. On the same token, it wasn’t him playing like a corpse that lost us the final.

As sammyspurs sammyspurs said just now, I’d expect us to be in the top four, maybe top six and winning our usual trophy per decade. We’ve hit higher than that (brilliant Poch) and are now well below that (Apocalypse Now Poch).
 
pipes said:
ENIC certainly deserve blame for Sherwood. That was a horrible decision. One which was so bad I’ve sort of wiped from my memory. So yes, fuck Levy for that one, in that we are in agreement.
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It would be nice if Poch took a page out of Sherwood’s playbook and trusted our youngsters.

Is there any player we can point to and say “Poch definitely made him better”?

I used to think it was Dele. Then I thought it was Winks.

Both have gotten stale at a very young age
 
pipes said:
Maybe so, but on the other hand, they get very little credit from me for our on pitch successes. It wasn’t Levy that scored against Ajax to get us to the final. On the same token, it wasn’t him playing like a corpse that lost us the final.

As sammyspurs sammyspurs said just now, I’d expect us to be in the top four, maybe top six and winning our usual trophy per decade. We’ve hit higher than that (brilliant Poch) and are now well below that (Apocalypse Now Poch).
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So why blame them only for appointing Sherwood and no one else if what happens on the pitch is not down to them?
 
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