• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Ex-Spurs Player Toby Alderweireld

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Airfixx said:
He subseqently explained to you: "the only game we are/were favourites for on that list [of 'big' teams] is Woolwich in 2 weeks time".



LOL... No. Anything but actually.......
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I said I didn't understand betting odds. I still don't get how "3/1 on" against City translates to them being favourites. Please don't answer or explain that (I don't bet nor do I have plans to) so I hold my hands up and accept that the bookies didn't have us as favourites for that game. I DID though which is the opinion I started with in this thread. IMO we were favs for the others too (for reason already detailed). I don't follow odds or bookies, never have never will, so wasn't claiming what bookies thought of us, just giving my opinion.

If you think those three games we weren't favourites, I'm more than OK with, they are difficult games. However, you've done absolutely nothing to dispel us not being favourites in the other 13 games we've played. Which points directly to the fact that we've had a fairly easy run of fixtures so for this season.
 
bfwolf said:
Imagine bleating on for multiple pages of a thread about how we were favorites in every game of the season and then when being shown we were severe underdogs in multiple games, admitting you don’t even know how odds work.

If you don’t want to get into odds and all that, it’s fine. But don’t write manifestos about who was favored in what game then. Your rationale for why we should have been the favorites in all those games is laughable and meaningless. People putting their actual money on the line (which determines the odds) are the people to be taken seriously. If you know more than those people, you could make an easy fortune becoming a professional gambler. Spoiler: you don’t.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because I don't bet doesn't exclude me from a conversation or an opinion of what I think our chances are against another team, that's utterly ridiculous.
 
Guido said:
Because I don't bet doesn't exclude me from a conversation or an opinion of what I think our chances are against another team, that's utterly ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But not understanding how odds work or what our odds were in some of our toughest games should give you pause before you write a manifesto about how we were favorites in all our games and you dare anybody to come up with a rationale to disagree with you. At least if you want anybody to take you seriously.

I recommend learning how odds work btw. You don’t have to bet on them to gain an appreciation for them and how bettors see the likelihood of different events occurring.
 
Guido said:
I said I didn't understand betting odds. I still don't get how "3/1 on" against City translates to them being favourites. Please don't answer or explain that (I don't bet nor do I have plans to) so I hold my hands up and accept that the bookies didn't have us as favourites for that game. I DID though which is the opinion I started with in this thread. IMO we were favs for the others too (for reason already detailed). I don't follow odds or bookies, never have never will, so wasn't claiming what bookies thought of us, just giving my opinion.

If you think those three games we weren't favourites, I'm more than OK with, they are difficult games. However, you've done absolutely nothing to dispel us not being favourites in the other 13 games we've played. Which points directly to the fact that we've had a fairly easy run of fixtures so for this season.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
:mourfacepalm:
We were 3/1 against vs City, not 3/1 on!
 
Mick Cooper said:
In the can we win the league thread a whole pile of indignant posters were rubbishing the opinion of Steve Nichol (4 league winners medals, 3 FA cups, European cup, international etc) for saying that this uber defensive, hit them on the break game is unsustainable and the players will get tired of it - he was belittled for his age and weight by some (nice.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See this is where I think you are wrong ,
We are top of the league and Jose is a proven winner and one of the most successful managers of all time , do you think Kane and Son are going to be getting bored of playing this kind of football while sitting top of the league with the best attack and defence in the whole league? I think it’s the complete opposite and they will buy into Jose’s philosophy even more, knowing that if they run through walls for him then the league is possible.
 
Guido said:
I said I didn't understand betting odds. I still don't get how "3/1 on" against City translates to them being favourites. Please don't answer or explain that (I don't bet nor do I have plans to) so I hold my hands up and accept that the bookies didn't have us as favourites for that game. I DID though which is the opinion I started with in this thread. IMO we were favs for the others too (for reason already detailed). I don't follow odds or bookies, never have never will, so wasn't claiming what bookies thought of us, just giving my opinion.

If you think those three games we weren't favourites, I'm more than OK with, they are difficult games. However, you've done absolutely nothing to dispel us not being favourites in the other 13 games we've played. Which points directly to the fact that we've had a fairly easy run of fixtures so for this season.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It means bettors gave us a 25% chance to win the game. City were 4/5 which gave them a 55.6% chance of winning. We can safely assume the remaining ~20% was for a draw.

If you understood odds just a little instead of continuing to argue that which you don’t understand, you’d have seen that Totti Totti showed we were similar underdogs vs Chelsea and Man U. So your whole argument really carries no weight.

I actually agree with you that we’ve had a relatively easy run of games. But your argument for why it’s true is doing you no favors.
 
bfwolf said:
But not understanding how odds work or what our odds were in some of our toughest games should give you pause before you write a manifesto about how we were favorites in all our games and you dare anybody to come up with a rationale to disagree with you. At least if you want anybody to take you seriously.

I recommend learning how odds work btw. You don’t have to bet on them to gain an appreciation for them and how bettors see the likelihood of different events occurring.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They are my opinions mate. I don't need bookies odds to form an opinion.

I clearly explained my rationale for why I thought we were favourites for those games, people are free to agree or disagree with them.

I don't need to know bookies odds to influence this opinion of whether I think City's press has disappeared and how this might affect their performances. I don't need bookies odds to influence me that OGS is a poor manager or that until last weekend that they were yet to win at home this season and that they've been in the main crap.

I think that the game this weekend against Chavs will be a harder game than the game we played in the cup and our hardest game of the season so far. I think this because some of their new signings are starting to click, I think Mendy is better than Kepper and therefore improves them, I think Werner is looking dangerous, as too is Ziyech. They have Pulisic who might be back fit, their weakness was their defence this looks much improved of late. I think their press will be much better than City's and far more intensive, they will not afford us the space City did as a consequence, although they still do have a tendency for this intensity to drop and allow teams back into games.

That's my opinion, formed without consulting the bookies.
 
bfwolf said:
It means bettors gave us a 25% chance to win the game. City were 4/5 which gave them a 55.6% chance of winning. We can safely assume the remaining ~20% was for a draw.

If you understood odds just a little instead of continuing to argue that which you don’t understand, you’d have seen that Totti Totti showed we were similar underdogs vs Chelsea and Man U. So your whole argument really carries no weight.

I actually agree with you that we’ve had a relatively easy run of games. But your argument for why it’s true is doing you no favors.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not nor have I ever tried to guess or even know what the bookies thought about the game. They are irrelevant to me and my opinion. I'm not claiming to know what they thought or how they viewed as favourites or not. I gave my opinion on the matches, the same I would give an opion on Kane.

In my opinion, I've made us favourites for all the games we've played so far this season. For the more marginal matches, I tried to give a broader explanation of why I thought this. We won those games!
 
Surprised by some of the comments in this thread.

We've been more enterprising overall under Mourinho than I thought we might be. Granted, there have been some poor results and performances, as under every manager, but we've often played on the front foot and scored a lot of goals. I have no issue with us keeping it tighter against the likes of Man City if it helps us get results.

Where I do think we can improve is defensively - surprising to me, as I thought this would be an area Jose would excel at organising. In fact he did seem to have settled on a centre back partnership of Toby and Dier, who have been excellent together, by and large. I'm not really a big Dier fan as you will see from my post history but credit where it's due, he's been excellent lately. Toby has also been really good and it's a shame he's out, but thankfully the injury is not as bad as first feared. Rodon will have his chance now and let's hope he grabs it with both hands.
 
Guido said:
I do feel compelled to give an explanation when Airfixx Airfixx takes what wasn't at negative and turns it into one so he can eventually after much time waisting get to the point, that he thinks I'm being anti-Jose (despite actually complimenting him). It happens constantly with him.

I agree and disagree with you equal measure with your points you raise Mick. (I've explained why I thought we were favourites against City, they are struggling big time this season, they can't score for toffee, they no longer press and win the ball back high up the pitch which gives teams time on the ball, but they are still set up as a high-pressing side which exposes their defence by any team almost every game.

I disagree with your assessment of our performance against City, it was fantastic. Opening 15mins we were terrific, locking City out to nothing, whilst we turned them over multiple times and broke well. I wasn't so comfortable in the remainder of the first half, where I thought we were fortunate they didn't get the pen. But they weren't getting behind us, Lloris was more or less a bystander. In the 2nd half we completly controlled them. When people talk of masterclasses (always when it's a manager of a team that plays without the ball for some unknown reason) then absolutely this was. Last year and other encounters with them in the league we've been nothing than lucky to collect points, as they would routinely get behind us, through us, totally outplay us, with us relying on luck for them not to score. This wasn't the case on Sat.

I personally don't know where we because of the favourable fixtures we've had at the start of this season., to compound this there have been some topsy-turvy results from almost every side if anything we perhaps might be the least fluctuating team(??), whilst other have lost (some by big margins) we've either scraped through or drawn but I keep coming back to the fixture list. Safe to say we will 100% know where we are at when we are in Jan as there are some tougher games in them and on the spin.

I do feel the team is playing as to how the manager wants, that's positive, the team feel good and look in a positive mindset, so that too is a far better environment than a toxic one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What a load of old buck-passing, fantasy bullshit....
 
Guido said:
I said I didn't understand betting odds. I still don't get how "3/1 on" against City translates to them being favourites. Please don't answer or explain that (I don't bet nor do I have plans to) so I hold my hands up and accept that the bookies didn't have us as favourites for that game. I DID though which is the opinion I started with in this thread. IMO we were favs for the others too (for reason already detailed). I don't follow odds or bookies, never have never will, so wasn't claiming what bookies thought of us, just giving my opinion.

If you think those three games we weren't favourites, I'm more than OK with, they are difficult games.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well that was my original bone of contention with what you'd originally said...

(......Unless you've been inanely arguing all along that we ought to be playing 'big 6' teams every week???)

So thanks for unnecessarily creating a "Session" out of what was always a very basic contradiction.

The state of these last few pages, you've got people rejecting your blinkered spin all over the place and you've the cheek to point the finger at me.....? Bollocks.

Guido said:
However, you've done absolutely nothing to dispel us not being favourites in the other 13 games we've played. Which points directly to the fact that we've had a fairly easy run of fixtures so for this season.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've no need to; I never said every match was tough.... If you pulled your head out of your ass, you'd realise that (as I've pointed out in my posts since); I was rejecting your notion about there being tougher games to face.....

I've still not the slightest clue what your rant about last season has to do with anything.... I'll be fucked if I care though.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top