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Ex-Spurs Player Lucas Moura

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dmize1 said:
My issue with a lot of the posters complaining about Lucas: You want players so we can rotate our top players against lesser clubs.

But also, the guys who perform against lesser clubs are terrible and shouldn't be on the team? Lucas' success against the lower teams IS valuable as a squad player. Squad players are necessary.
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Part of my issue with Lucas is the overall state of our wingers in total which is not his fault but a lot of it also has to do with him as well.

We lack youth, creativity and HG players in our squad, wingers especially and Moura obviously supplies none of this. Squad players are necessary but when they are foreign, older and add nothing it is frustrating.

Perhaps if we replaced Bale and Lamela with say Olise and Mane (or similar staring level PL talent) then Moura as a squad player would work. He wouldn't be expected to start in the PL and we would have Olise to bring on against parked buses or to provide creativity when needed.

Right now Moura really provides us with nothing but a warm body with experience. He isn't a good option to put on when down a goal because he doesn't create chances, kills our attack, doesn't make runs to open up the defense, doesn't score near enough in the PL, He isn't good to throw on when we are up because he isn't defensively.

So yes part of the problem is that we need better players ahead of him so he can properly be a squad player but even at that he offers very little that helps us out and could easily be replaced by someone who brings something we need at that position.
 
bonaspur23 said:
What a terrible post. I’ll start off by saying, I don’t dislike Lucas at all but your reasoning is just pathetic.

Lucas has 1 goal and 1 assist (last Sunday) in 17 premier league games. (To be fair to Lucas it’s in about 610 minutes).

He has 4 goals/2 assists in Europa. None against royal antwerp, the other team to qualify. They are against LASK, ludogrets, and some Israeli team from qualifying (whose transfer record fee is 913K).

He has 1 goal/2 assists against Marine (lol) and Wycombe (LAST in the championship).

And that’s it.

You’re comparing these teams to Brighton and Everton. It’s a laughable failure of logic.

If you want a player that puts up decent (not even amazing) stats against Europa league drop outs, championship relegation fodder, and the weakest team to ever make the 3rd round of the FA cup, then we better sign this guy to an extension.
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You're clearly having a sense of humour failure as my post is obviously tongue in cheek.

Nobody is saying Lucas is a top class player. While capable of some good performances, he is flawed and inconsistent (like 98% of footballers). Yes he could be improved upon, but being brutally honest he is about the level of quality for a squad player that we can expect and need. His attitude is first class, he's almost never injured and contributes to points and wins over the course of the season.

If his role is as backup to the first team players then of course his goals are mostly going to come against the lesser opposition. That's his job, and personally I'm fine with it.
 
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Well.. that was surprising to some extent.
That since Aug18 Moura has got 88 starts in all competitions...
 
Zomby DDS said:
Coincides with our demise

he’s a destroyer (of our attacking play)
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I agree, he should be squad player to be used for rotation generally. But of course out of those 88 many came in EL / Cup games as well.

But based on past 2 games... well, has his issues, but unfortunately we don't have better options either. Bergwijn seems at least one step behind him, and Alli (though reportedly returning from injury) came on and was absolutely invisible...

But in that sense your comment is very accurate, that yesterday he was working hard and winning back the ball multiple times, though when it came to final pass or putting away chances then... he was not there.
 
TheSpurEst said:
I agree, he should be squad player to be used for rotation generally. But of course out of those 88 many came in EL / Cup games as well.

But based on past 2 games... well, has his issues, but unfortunately we don't have better options either. Bergwijn seems at least one step behind him, and Alli (though reportedly returning from injury) came on and was absolutely invisible...

But in that sense your comment is very accurate, that yesterday he was working hard and winning back the ball multiple times, though when it came to final pass or putting away chances then... he was not there.
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I’m actually ok with players missing chances and taking risks in the final third.

My hatred of Lucas is because he can’t knock a simple, basic pass in the middle third, he makes bad choices when under little to no pressure and it effects our style of play
 
Redcoast said:
Why does he always try to dribble like he's possessed by Ronaldinho? I just don't understand. He losses the ball 95% of the time, do the math Lucas...Please
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I'm pretty sure his "original position", pre-PSG, and when he was getting into the Brazil squad, was as a CAM. I think his play there lately has looked more natural than as a winger. He's always kinda not fit into LAM or RAM in a 4-2-3-1 though, and we've never really tried him much at CAM from what I recall.

It's nice to have his energy in the team. I have no idea if it's going to work long term though. Why would we if we had a fit Gio and Dele?
 
Igula said:
Part of my issue with Lucas is the overall state of our wingers in total which is not his fault but a lot of it also has to do with him as well.

We lack youth, creativity and HG players in our squad, wingers especially and Moura obviously supplies none of this. Squad players are necessary but when they are foreign, older and add nothing it is frustrating.

Perhaps if we replaced Bale and Lamela with say Olise and Mane (or similar staring level PL talent) then Moura as a squad player would work. He wouldn't be expected to start in the PL and we would have Olise to bring on against parked buses or to provide creativity when needed.

Right now Moura really provides us with nothing but a warm body with experience. He isn't a good option to put on when down a goal because he doesn't create chances, kills our attack, doesn't make runs to open up the defense, doesn't score near enough in the PL, He isn't good to throw on when we are up because he isn't defensively.

So yes part of the problem is that we need better players ahead of him so he can properly be a squad player but even at that he offers very little that helps us out and could easily be replaced by someone who brings something we need at that position.
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I see that you are still pandering to the silly idea that Olise is top PL starting quality. Seems you think PL and Championship are of similar difficulty.
 
El Magnifico said:
I see that you are still pandering to the silly idea that Olise is top PL starting quality. Seems you think PL and Championship are of similar difficulty.
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Good point we never have had any examples of players coming from the championship and doing well in the PL.

Surprising that you were pushing for championship level Rodon to play over Toby, I guess that didn;t suit your agenda so in that case you ignored the fact Rodon is from the Championship.
 
Igula said:
Good point we never have had any examples of players coming from the championship and doing well in the PL.

Surprising that you were pushing for championship level Rodon to play over Toby, I guess that didn;t suit your agenda so in that case you ignored the fact Rodon is from the Championship.
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At no point did I claim that Rodon was a top quality PL starter. I wanted him starting given what he had shown (and the crap defenders we have) and to see what he could offer against stiffer opposition.

That is different from you claiming that a teenage championship player is what we need to upgrade our starting XI. The kid may succeed in the PL and could also flop - both are almost equally likely. The best opposition the kid has played against is championship level but you are making claims like the kids is guaranteed to be a PL star.
 
El Magnifico said:
At no point did I claim that Rodon was a top quality PL starter. I wanted him starting given what he had shown (and the crap defenders we have) and to see what he could offer against stiffer opposition.

That is different from you claiming that a teenage championship player is what we need to upgrade our starting XI. The kid may succeed in the PL and could also flop - both are almost equally likely. The best opposition the kid has played against is championship level but you are making claims like the kids is guaranteed to be a PL star.
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I never said star and actually have him as a bench option not starter ideally.

I have said he was better than Moura and Lamela and that he brings things to our team that we are lacking- creativity, attacking ability- especially on the wings.

And there have been plenty of guys that have come from the championship and done fine in the PL so it is not much of a risk at all.
 
Igula said:
I never said star and actually have him as a bench option not starter ideally.

I have said he was better than Moura and Lamela and that he brings things to our team that we are lacking- creativity, attacking ability- especially on the wings.

And there have been plenty of guys that have come from the championship and done fine in the PL so it is not much of a risk at all.
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and there are many others that have come and flopped. There is a reason most promoted teams end up being relegated back after a few seasons.

You say he is better than Lucas and Lamela when all you have seen of him is against championship level opposition. A 21yr old lucas looked good in ligue 1 and a 20yr old Lamela looked good in Serie A, both leagues being much better than the chsampionship, but we all know how those two have turned out.

My point remains that there is no evidence, beyond your personal delusions, to support your claim that he is currently better than Lucas and Lamela. He might develop to be and he might fade away. That is not the kind of player we should be signing with our current squad problems.
 
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