We sacked him because we started the PL season off like shit and levy didn’t want to admit it was his fault for not rebuilding the squad.Oh, ok... so why did we sack him if everything was so wonderful?
And you didn't answer the question.
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We sacked him because we started the PL season off like shit and levy didn’t want to admit it was his fault for not rebuilding the squad.Oh, ok... so why did we sack him if everything was so wonderful?
And you didn't answer the question.
Maybe this is just a question of defining terms.I think the closest would be Liverpool but even then you might be able to stretch it out to 4 years if you go to the year before Klopp came and they sold Suarez, but none of the guys they brought in were major factors in the current run, so it is more likely a 3 year build starting in 2015-16 and ending in 2018-19 when they won the CL.
Haven't considered that possibility, it would suck if he was just stringing us along to force PSG to meet his demands.It's a massive long shot, one thing I've not seen considered is if Poch is also using this as leverage to wrestle some ground at PSG. It's abundantly clear how divisive and political Leandro and PSG are, it's the actual reason Tuchel gave and why we walked out on them.
Reports show that Poch is unhappy with the politics already, no surprise here, but what if Poch could walk away, leave them in the shit but the hierarchy say don't go, how can we keep you?
In any event, right now Poch can relax, as he might have PSG, Spurs and Real Madrid all falling over him, he's in the box seat in this that's for sure.
Maybe this is just a question of defining terms.
"Rebuild", to me, is getting worse on purpose in order for there to be future gains. Which I think is simply not a thing at this level of this sport.
You just try to get better, and whether it happens in three months or five years or never is ultimately down to the quality of the plan and the people implementing it.
The Liverpool blueprint was not "Sell Philippe Coutinho". They just brought in the best people they could find and did the best they could in every window until they found the formula that worked. It wasn't a five year plan, it was a right now plan that got iterated upon as circumstances changed.
And I think where the rubber meets the road here, and the thing I'm ultimately pushing back on is the very toxic notion of "you know the rebuild is working BECAUSE we suck". Utter nonsense.
We need to turn over the squad to get better, and getting better is the stepping stone to getting better still.
I just think in general that the guys who you are mooting as "the better player in 3 years" is actually most likely the better player now.I think that a rebuild would have elements of both in football. Obviously there isn't the added benefit of getting a top pick like in NA sports, but there still is benefit in bringing in young players. I think a proper "rebuild" has aspects of getting worse to get better in the future but in a different way.
I would say an example of this would be bring in Sven Botman, instead of Jerome Boateng. Boateng might be better right now, but if the goal is to have the best team in 2024 then Botman is the better option. So you are technically getting worse now to be better long term.
I think Coutinho is a good example as well, keeping him makes the team better right now, but selling him and using that money on other players makes the team better overall.
Lucas Moura might be better right now than Michael Olise, but Olise is a better option because he is likely to better and has the potential to be top 4 quality while Moura will never be good enough. So if you swap them out you are "getting worse" but probably much better off.
I also think that you have to consider the context. I mean we are getting worse no matter what, so do you want to get worse with 28-32 year olds or 22-24 year olds? To me the latter group looks much more preferable.
Liverpool was a long term plan though. They identified players that weren't good enough and didn't fit their plans and moved them out. They didn't worry if it would make them better or worse, they got rid of players they didn't want and brought in players that fit their system. They were confident enough in their system to think it would work, but they had no problem moving out guys that were "better."
I don't think he would be stringing us along per see, I feel reasonably confident that the PSG politics are real. I think coming back to us is real. I think going to Madrid is also real.Haven't considered that possibility, it would suck if he was just stringing us along to force PSG to meet his demands.
I just think in general that the guys who you are mooting as "the better player in 3 years" is actually most likely the better player now.
And if they aren't, chances are actually pretty high they won't be the better player in 3 years either.
The odd older player on a free doesn't hurt if you're not blocking a younger player with potential, but in general that's definitely not a sound teambuilding strategy for now or later. Boateng is available for a reason.
The right three year plan with the right personnel and the right resources will be very very clearly "working" pretty much immediately. I guess that's my point.I have also yet to see a realistic plan that gets us competitive net season but can think of many that get us there in 3 years.
Pre arranged meetings with who?
The right three year plan with the right personnel and the right resources will be very very clearly "working" pretty much immediately. I guess that's my point.
We're not waiting for the blooming of Watkins and Eze. Those are just really good players and anyone who doubted them because of the league they were playing in is a bad scout.
And great news, we are adding a guy who outclassed the Championship for free.
Nail on the head.We sacked him because we started the PL season off like shit and levy didn’t want to admit it was his fault for not rebuilding the squad.
Another way to put those same facts is that Klopp inherited a mess, made two cup finals and improved as the year went along in his first season, and then got top four and CL qualification in his second.I guess you could argue that this is me using hindsight, but I think at the time you could see that their plans were smart and they were doing the right thing, brining in the players that fit their system and were talented and not rushing to bring in quick fixes to paper over the cracks. They didn't panic when they finished 8th in Klopps first year because they understood that time was needed to make changes. They didn't panic when in the 2nd year they were only 4th with mediocre Cup results and no Europe. They stuck to the plan.
And The Chavs didn’t have European football to worry about unlike us if I remember correctly!Yeh right. Dembele was unfit and often on the bench under AVB and Sherwood, Rose was rubbish, Walker a liability, Eriksen hit or miss. The only players pulling up tree’s where Kane and sometimes Verts or Lloris. Infact back then Bentaleb and Mason where two of the most reliable players. He built that 16/17 team it wasn’t gifted to him.
He got those players playing at or beyond what they where capable of. We know it ran out of steam as it would but don’t change history. As for title winning squad we lost to Conte with peak Hazard and Kante, we got 86 points which would have won the title in many seasons.
And The Chavs didn’t have European football to worry about unlike us if I remember correctly!
Another way to put those same facts is that Klopp inherited a mess, made two cup finals and improved as the year went along in his first season, and then got top four and CL qualification in his second.
Again I think we're largely agreeing. Make a good plan for durable success and stick to it.
Poch's group was not the finished article in his first season, and indeed were quite poor initially. But then we battered Chelsea on New Years Day as Kane exploded onto the scene. It was plain to see there was something there.
Then we brought in Toby, Son, and Dele, and flogged off the deadwood that had accumulated for years. Just keep pushing forward.
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