#WeAreAllIdrissa is the #1 Worldwide Trend on Twitter, after many Muslims went to Twitter to show their support for Idrissa Gana Gueye after he refuse

[Darnswim]

Freedom of speech is for everyone to have his beliefs. As long as he doesn't harm anyone, he's free to have his beliefs as well. People that advocate "free speech" and then try to cancel anyone that doesn't agree with them are the worst type of hypocrites, and there's a lot of them out there.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

“Crystal Palace's Cheikhou Kouyate and Watford's Ismaila Sarr have posted on social media in apparent support of their Senegal team-mate's stance.

Kouyate posted a picture of himself alongside Gueye on Instagram, with a caption calling Gueye "a real man". Watford winger Sarr posted a picture of him and Gueye accompanied by three heart emojis and the caption "100%".

Idrissa Gueye refuses to wear PSG shirt featuring rainbow symbol

Sir Elton John will want that Watford player of the season award back I think.

 

[LuckyMe]

I hope, he is signed by the same club as Lacazette

 

[Airfixx]

So Muslims (and others) make a "brave" stand against anti-homophobic t-shirt in a sport known for homophobia but in this thread Muslims are the real victims.

Apparently I have to take care to explain clearly that Islam is EXACTLY the same as every other religion in the world. As if that's the big problem.

........."The same"???

"I keep warning people about Muslim but people don't want to listen."

"Muslims/Islam is far more strident in this regard."

"to not label all Muslims as bad people [is] misguided and counterproductive"

No-one here has said Gueye has been brave either (nor defended him in any way).

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

That's true, but Muslims/Islam is far more strident in this regard.

You do know there are gay Muslims right?

I think you need to be more specific about whether you have a problem with Muslims or Islam itself. There are many tolerant Muslims, just as there are many tolerant catholics or Hindus. Lots of Muslims I know couldn't give a shit if someone's gay, trans or whatever.

In all religions there are factions of extremists that hate anything that doesn't adhere to their religious 'book' verbatim. I know I was brought up Catholic, but have no belief or respect for the church, which is the most bigoted institution there is.

I think you're coming across pretty bad on this.

Why not just see people as people, good and bad.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Freedom of speech is for everyone to have his beliefs. As long as he doesn't harm anyone, he's free to have his beliefs as well. People that advocate "free speech" and then try to cancel anyone that doesn't agree with them are the worst type of hypocrites, and there's a lot of them out there.

He is free to have his views, which we are free to criticise. Others may disagree, but I've not called for him to be sacked, or officially santioned in any way.

It's also not a simple case of freedom of speech because his stance is essentially an infringement on the rights of another minority. Gay people are oppressed even in the liberal west, never mind places like Senegal, so his stance perpetuates this oppression.

Him, and those who support him will ensure that Jake Daniels will remain alone as an openly gay player in the UK.

 

[paddy spur]

Society and religion are not two disjoint sets. They both influence each other, and especially in Muslim countries they are practically one and the same.

Try being out and about on a Friday noon in Bangladesh, Pakistan etc. Or trying to eat something in public during Ramadan.

I get where your instinct to not label all Muslims as bad people comes from but it's misguided and counterproductive. No one is saying all Muslims or exclusively Muslims are homophobes.

I don't want to miss represent you but are you really saying what the below sentence implies.

"I get where your instinct to not label all Muslims as bad people comes from but it's misguided and counterproductive"

Are you really saying muslims should be pre judged. From my experience homophobia comes from all walks of life. It certainly wasn't a Muslim who blew up the Admiral Duncan. Would it be "counterproductive" not to label all white loners as bad people.

You are on some thin ice here and I suggest you take a long hard look at what you are posting.

 

[Darnswim]

He is free to have his views, which we are free to criticise.

Doesn't that mean that he is free to criticize your views too? It should go both ways.

Personally, I'm against scapegoating people just because of their views. You can't force someone to wear the rainbow colors, or the poppy, or the double-headed eagle if they don't agree with it.

 

[bonaspur23]

I get where your instinct to not label all Muslims as bad people comes from but it's misguided and counterproductive.

Are you saying someone that says all Muslims are not bad people is misguided and counterproductive or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Deleted member 15314]

You do know there are gay Muslims right?

I think you need to be more specific about whether you have a problem with Muslims or Islam itself. There are many tolerant Muslims, just as there are many tolerant catholics or Hindus. Lots of Muslims I know couldn't give a shit if someone's gay, trans or whatever.

In all religions there are factions of extremists that hate anything that doesn't adhere to their religious 'book' verbatim. I know I was brought up Catholic, but have no belief or respect for the church, which is the most bigoted institution there is.

I think you're coming across pretty bad on this.

Why not just see people as people, good and bad.

There are black white supremacists, a few exceptions don't really mean anything.

Again, as I've said in several earlier posts, homophobia is not universal among Muslims nor is it unique to them.

I concede that I should be more specific, I do mean that ISLAM, not Muslims need to be attacked. I don't want to dehumanise Muslims, like you, I've got Muslim friends, and my own family is Muslim. I'd rather attack the ideology than the person, but unfortunately, Muslims almost universally have the opposite view, "bad people corrupting the true message of Islam".

All religions have extremist factions, but Islam is extremist at the source, the moderates are the "impure" ones. Islam's great problem that other religions don't have is just how strongly it is able to influence its adherents.

It's hard for a Muslim to leave Islam because of threats of violence, social exclusion, prison sentences etc. which is not really as significant a problem in any other religious group.

My "warning" is exactly for people like you, who are raised CofE, Catholic etc, have highly westernised liberal "muslim" friends, and so assume that Islam is like every other religion.

 

[Deuterz]

Freedom of speech is for everyone to have his beliefs. As long as he doesn't harm anyone, he's free to have his beliefs as well. People that advocate "free speech" and then try to cancel anyone that doesn't agree with them are the worst type of hypocrites, and there's a lot of them out there.

That entirely depends on what they view as the limits of free speech. I think everyone has a right to an opinion until said opinion infringes on the rights of other people to exist. For example 'gay people are disgusting' isn't free speech, it's hate speech.

As is 'x race is inferior' because again, you're espousing hate, not valid views. We've had these discussions as a society, it's book closed. No interest whatsoever in having 'reasoned debates' about the rights of people to exist as they were born.

 

[bonaspur23]

Freedom of speech is for everyone to have his beliefs. As long as he doesn't harm anyone, he's free to have his beliefs as well. People that advocate "free speech" and then try to cancel anyone that doesn't agree with them are the worst type of hypocrites, and there's a lot of them out there.

So racism is acceptable as long as it’s only words and not insults?

 

[Deleted member 15314]

I don't want to miss represent you but are you really saying what the below sentence implies.

"I get where your instinct to not label all Muslims as bad people comes from but it's misguided and counterproductive"

Are you really saying muslims should be pre judged. From my experience homophobia comes from all walks of life. It certainly wasn't a Muslim who blew up the Admiral Duncan. Would it be "counterproductive" not to label all white loners as bad people.

You are on some thin ice here and I suggest you take a long hard look at what you are posting.

So just to be clear, I'm not saying it's a bad instinct to want to see the good in people. The misguided part is the instinct to see the criticism of Islam/Muslims as generalising all Muslims as bad people. Seeing it in the same terms as racist or homophobia.

Muslims have a choice, Islam is an ideology.

Maybe what I should have wrote is "I get where the instinct to fight the labelling of all Muslims as bad people comes from, but it's misguided and unproductive because that's not what I'm doing".

As for "thin ice", maybe you want to clarify yourself?

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

TFC never fails to amaze me.

Ever decreasing circles.

 

[Airfixx]

Doesn't that mean that he is free to criticize your views too? It should go both ways.

Personally, I'm against scapegoating people just because of their views. You can't force someone to wear the rainbow colors, or the poppy, or the double-headed eagle if they don't agree with it.

TBF, he hasn't been "forced"... He declined.... Thus a debate has ensued.....

As long as the debate is conducted in a suitably civilised fashion that ought to be the most appropriate outcome for both sides of the fence, no?

 

[Darnswim]

So racism is acceptable as long as it’s only words and not insults?

Racism is not the same because you're insulting another person based on his appearance.

Idrissa is not doing that. He's not making hate speeches about gay people, he's refusing to wear the rainbow color. Real life scenario: I have a Serbian friend that I recognised from living in France, however, would I wear the Serbian flag or do the 3 finger symbol? Absolutely fucking not.

 

[Deuterz]

Racism is not the same because you're insulting another person based on his appearance.

Idrissa is not doing that, he's refusing to wear the rainbow color. Real life scenario: I have a Serbian friend that I recognised from living in France, however, would I wear the Serbian flag or do the 3 finger symbol? Absolutely fucking not.

Not remotely the same and you must know that.

The rainbow flag isn't a national flag. It's a symbol of a community which was oppressed throughout history and one which is still fighting for their right to exist peacefully. It should represent all humans who are half decent people.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Racism is not the same because you're insulting another person based on his appearance.

Idrissa is not doing that, he's refusing to wear the rainbow color. Real life scenario: I have a Serbian friend that I recognised from living in France, however, would I wear the Serbian flag or do the 3 finger symbol? Absolutely fucking not.

But the rainbow stuff is meant to send the message that gay people are oppressed for their inherent trait of being gay, and we are against oppression based on immutable traits.

His refusal is tantamount to saying "actually, in this case I disagree with the idea that they are indeed oppressed and need support". More simply put he's making an exception to the idea of universal rights.

His stance means he has no credibility when he wears the "no to racism" badge on his sleeve.

 

[Darnswim]

Not remotely the same and you must know that.

The rainbow flag isn't a national flag. It's a symbol of a community which was oppressed throughout history and one which is still fighting for their right to exist peacefully. It should represent all humans who are half decent people.

Same goes for a foreign flag in Albania. Serbians used to be oppressed in Albania, Albanians used to be oppressed in Serbia, Greece etc. I wouldn't care if I would see a Serbian flag in the middle of Tirana (bear in mind that the war happened in 1999, so it's extremely recent and tensions are still high), however if you'd ask me to hold that flag I'd categorically refuse. It's the same thing there.

 

[paddy spur]

So just to be clear, I'm not saying it's a bad instinct to want to see the good in people. The misguided part is the instinct to see the criticism of Islam/Muslims as generalising all Muslims as bad people. Seeing it in the same terms as racist or homophobia.

Muslims have a choice, Islam is an ideology.

Maybe what I should have wrote is "I get where the instinct to fight the labelling of all Muslims as bad people comes from, but it's misguided and unproductive because that's not what I'm doing".

Just so we know where we going with this. What you have written is a tautoligal messs of sentences that tries to give you the right to prejudge people of Islamic faith..