#WeAreAllIdrissa is the #1 Worldwide Trend on Twitter, after many Muslims went to Twitter to show their support for Idrissa Gana Gueye after he refuse

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Darnswim said:
Same goes for a foreign flag in Albania. Serbians used to be oppressed in Albania, Albanians used to be oppressed in Serbia, Greece etc. I wouldn't care if I would see a Serbian flag in the middle of Tirana (bear in mind that the war happened in 1999, so it's extremely recent and tensions are still high), however if you'd ask me to hold that flag I'd categorically refuse.
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Because it's a national flag and there are valid reasons you might have opinions on what that flag represents.

There are no valid reasons to dislike the rainbow flag. It represents the rights & freedoms of a community, not a country. They've not been part of any wars or invasions, they just want to exist freely in the world without persecution.

And BTW I don't think Gueye should be forced to wear it. I just think people are very much free to label him as a massive dick for not doing so.
 
Darnswim said:
Racism is not the same because you're insulting another person based on his appearance.

Idrissa is not doing that. He's not making hate speeches about gay people, he's refusing to wear the rainbow color. Real life scenario: I have a Serbian friend that I recognised from living in France, however, would I wear the Serbian flag or do the 3 finger symbol? Absolutely fucking not.
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If he wants to sit out based on his personal beliefs that’s fine. Kouyate supporting him is ok but calling him a real man is not ok and could be interpreted as insulting gay men.

But racism isn’t always a verbal insult. It could be changing laws to benefit voting privileges for white people. Maybe someone’s belief is that only white people should vote. But that’s not an ok belief to me and they deserve to be canceled for that nonsense. That was where I didn’t fully understand your initial post.
 
Darnswim said:
Racism is not the same because you're insulting another person based on his appearance.

Idrissa is not doing that. He's not making hate speeches about gay people, he's refusing to wear the rainbow color.
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His refusal strongly suggests a homophobic outlook (see below....)

Darnswim said:
Real life scenario: I have a Serbian friend that I recognised from living in France, however, would I wear the Serbian flag or do the 3 finger symbol? Absolutely fucking not.
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That doesn't translate mate..... Rainbow iconography in this context isn't a pledge of allegiance; just a pledge of support for tolerance and inclusivity.

If one actively refuses to support that notion then it begs obvious questions.
 
Airfixx said:
It's not a Muslim thing..... That's religion for you.
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Indeed. Pointing the finger at one religion/group is a really easy way to cop out from facing the reality that homophobia is still pretty endemic throughout society. Even people who are areligious will often come up with the 'as long as they keep to themselves' or 'why are they in our face?' lines and are disgusted by it.

There are still plenty of LGBT people in this country who are assaulted and abused in public by people from all backgrounds, you can't point the finger at any one community.
 
Dogstar said:
Just so we know where we going with this. What you have written is a tautoligal messs of sentences that tries to give you the right to prejudge people of Islamic faith..
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First, feel free to point out the contradiction. I've give you plenty of explanation, you can do more than two sentences that amount to no more than calling me a bigot.

Second, Islam is a religion, it's a choice it's not an immutable trait. Would you argue with being biased against scientology/scientologists on certain issues/scenarios?
 
KaneIsAble said:
First, feel free to point out the contradiction. I've give you plenty of explanation, you can do more than two sentences that amount to no more than calling me a bigot.

Second, Islam is a religion, it's a choice it's not an immutable trait. Would you argue with being biased against scientology/scientologists on certain issues/scenarios?
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You are a bigot mate. If you were honest you would just say so and move on
 
Some Muslims hate gay people some, some Christians hate gay people some atheists hate gay people. The first two pretty much for the same reasons. Some Muslim and Christians and atheists are gay people ( I know right!). None of them are representative of all of these belife systems. Its not even confusing.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Indeed. Pointing the finger at one religion/group is a really easy way to cop out from facing the reality that homophobia is still pretty endemic throughout society. Even people who are areligious will often come up with the 'as long as they keep to themselves' or 'why are they in our face?' lines and are disgusted by it.

There are still plenty of LGBT people in this country who are assaulted and abused in public by people from all backgrounds, you can't point the finger at any one community.
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Yeh, fair fucks.... That's a significant omission from my OG sentiment.

Equally, I suspect that there are many people that prefer to practice an evolved sense of their respective religions that aren't so dogmatic when it comes to judging the sexuality of others.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Indeed. Pointing the finger at one religion/group is a really easy way to cop out from facing the reality that homophobia is still pretty endemic throughout society. Even people who are areligious will often come up with the 'as long as they keep to themselves' or 'why are they in our face?' lines and are disgusted by it.

There are still plenty of LGBT people in this country who are assaulted and abused in public by people from all backgrounds, you can't point the finger at any one community.
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As I've said multiple times, these things are not unique or exclusive to any one group, but they are more prevelant in some than others. The severity of how that hate is expressed also varies.

The scale and severity of abuse against LGBT people in this country is on a different plane of existance to what goes on in most of the world. The thing is, no one would dream of defending the catholic church for its homophobic crap, but with Islam there's a contigent of people who instantly get defesive.

My point is, how do you get to the heart of the problem? Why do people hate gay people so much? What drives such visceral reactions? Surely it's indoctrination?

Almost all religions have this, society and religion are deeply interconnected, so that bleeds through to general society. The reason I point out Islam specifically is because of my experience with it. Islam demands far more from its adherents than other religions, so it's harder to fight the bigoted ideas it spreads.

It doesn't help when people like yourself spreads simple truisms like "all people have good/bad in them", and dilutes the disucssion, then others like Shotgunofmichalebrow Shotgunofmichalebrow can easily dismiss me as a bigot.
 
RomanzoCriminale said:
You do know there are gay Muslims right?
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I know not really the thrust of this thread but....I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure you can be any of the Abrahamic religions and be gay.

NB* not an idea I'm particularly wedded to, but I've always thought it's at least odd, if not downright 'impossible' to be gay and jewish/christian/muslim. The texts the religions are built on are pretty clear - homosexuality is a sin. No ifs or buts.

Unless of course any religion can be anything to anyone, so it's all just interpretation then fair enough.

Not quite the same, but it's bit like saying oh I'm christian but I steal, oh I'm muslim but I drink, oh I support West Ham and I can breathe through my nose. I kinda feel you're kidding yourself.

Happy to be proven wrong
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
You are a bigot mate. If you were honest you would just say so and move on
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Listen you stupid prick. My own mother is a Muslim. I went to eid prayers two/three weeks ago, as I have done all my fucking life.

I buried my father in a Muslim grave, I went to a mosque to offer Muslim prayers for him. I gave money to a fucking moqsque in his name!

I even fast a few days during ramadan. All for the sake of the Muslims in my life.

So you can shove the biggotry up your arse.
 
bunburyist said:
I know not really the thrust of this thread but....I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure you can be any of the Abrahamic religions and be gay.

NB* not an idea I'm particularly wedded to, but I've always thought it's at least odd, if not downright 'impossible' to be gay and jewish/christian/muslim. The texts the religions are built on are pretty clear - homosexuality is a sin. No ifs or buts.

Unless of course any religion can be anything to anyone, so it's all just interpretation then fair enough.

Not quite the same, but it's bit like saying oh I'm christian but I steal, oh I'm muslim but I drink, oh I support West Ham and I can breathe through my nose. I kinda feel you're kidding yourself.

Happy to be proven wrong
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They have a gay vicar on Corrie. :)

More seriously though; for many religious interpretation will be a personal thing that will also evolve with life experience... Particularly when you consider there will be religious people who awaken to their sexuality after they embrace X or Y faith. Not everyone will be a fundamentalist from birth til death.
 
One of my daughters (the one who sits next to me at Spurs) is part of the Proud Lillywhites group as she's gay.

Apparently the Spurs Rainbow flag in the away end has only been damaged twice this season at a PL game - Man City and Burnley.

Who knew they were all Muslims.
 
KaneIsAble said:
Almost all religions have this, society and religion are deeply interconnected, so that bleeds through to general society. The reason I point out Islam specifically is because of my experience with it. Islam demands far more from its adherents than other religions, so it's harder to fight the bigoted ideas it spreads.

It doesn't help when people like yourself spreads simple truisms like "all people have good/bad in them", and dilutes the disucssion, then others like Shotgunofmichalebrow Shotgunofmichalebrow can easily dismiss me as a bigot.
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One thing I'm sure you've noticed in the UK - the experience the public has of Islam is seriously detached from the experience in muslim countries. I spent a year working in a moderate muslim nation....it is nothing, nothing like it is in the West, so I can understand your frustration.
 
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