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Management Levy / €NIC. In or Out

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Levy / ENIC. In or Out

  • Levy / ENIC. We want you to stay

  • Levy / ENIC. Get out of our club

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Raumdeuterz said:
Yeah thanks for that patronising Sherlock. Considering a team who were promoted in the last decade managed to win one and Woolwich did it four fucking times with around the same revenue (whilst beating City/Chelsea in these games) I'm gonna go ahead and say us winning it once should probably have happened.

Especially when both those clubs will probably also boast a league title on top of that at the end of this season, whilst we've still got apologists on their knees crawling about trying to justify the empty cabinet because we're too poor.
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You don’t seem particularly responsive to facts and evidence. You just cut out bits you don’t like and steam ahead with your narrative.

Woolwich had less revenue than us in 2020 when they won it. In their previous year of winning (2017) they had 35% more revenue. In 2015 they had 69% more revenue. And in fact they had a significant advantage in revenue every single season of ENIC’s reign until 2018/19. So whilst the differences in revenue are stark, they actually tend to compound over time.

We’ve had 4 years of higher revenues (for which we can thank Enic) but before that Woolwich had 20 years. And that has resulted in some FA cups, yes. And that has made them significantly more likely to win a trophy than us under ENIC.
 
LeParisien said:
You don’t seem particularly responsive to facts and evidence. You just cut out bits you don’t like and steam ahead with your narrative.

Woolwich had less revenue than us in 2020 when they won it. In their previous year of winning (2017) they had 35% more revenue. In 2015 they had 69% more revenue. And in fact they had a significant advantage in revenue every single season of ENIC’s reign until 2018/19. So whilst the differences in revenue are stark, they actually tend to compound over time.

We’ve had 4 years of higher revenues (for which we can thank Enic) but before that Woolwich had 20 years. And that has resulted in some FA cups, yes. And that has made them significantly more likely to win a trophy than us under ENIC.
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I swear to god if you say 'facts and evidence' one more time.

Ok, now go check their transfer spending back then. Were they buying those cups? Were they spending money we couldn't dream of? No, they weren't. And then even when revenue levelled out they still won a trophy and we didn't.

They're still significantly more likely with the revenue gap closed, in fact they're looking likely to claim the ultimate prize despite a massive revenue gap, whilst you're still acting like it's some impossibility. So yeah, thanks ENIC.

And fucking Leicester, a club whose revenue we dwarfed and we were dining out on CL football while they were in the championship, shat out two of the biggest trophies in England. But you have no explanation for that, right? Just a fluke.

Wish we'd fucking 'fluke' something under these charlatans.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I swear to god if you say 'facts and evidence' one more time.

Ok, now go check their transfer spending back then. Were they buying those cups? Were they spending money we couldn't dream of? No, they weren't. And then even when revenue levelled out they still won a trophy and we didn't.

They're still significantly more likely with the revenue gap closed, in fact they're looking likely to claim the ultimate prize despite a massive revenue gap, whilst you're still acting like it's some impossibility. So yeah, thanks ENIC.

And fucking Leicester, a club whose revenue we dwarfed and we were dining out on CL football while they were in the championship, shat out two of the biggest trophies in England. But you have no explanation for that, right? Just a fluke.

Wish we'd fucking 'fluke' something under these charlatans.
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I wish we’d fluke something too. We almost fluked the champions league - would have been glorious!

I think you missed my comment about HUGE revenue differences compounding over time.

The best correlation between inputs and success are wages. I checked and in 2017 Spurs had a wage bill of £120m and Woolwich hs a wage bill of £234m - so almost double. So yes, Woolwich’s huge advantage in revenue for two decades was being used to ensure success on the pitch.

This is a bit embarrassing for you now.

Would you like a lesson in probability? Unlikely events sometimes transpire but they doesn’t mean slightly more likely (but still relatively unlikely) events should therefore happen more often. I can give a nice visual example if you’d like.
 
Kid Chameleon said:
Ipswich Town, Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest were also big players in the late 70s/early 80s but I guess the difference between them and the clubs you mentioned is that their success began and ended with the specific managers they had (Bobby Robson, Ron Saunders and Brian Clough) and once those managers were out of the picture there was no pedigree or heritage to keep them at the top.
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Provincial clubs have died a slow painful death since the inception of the Premier League.

The Premier League is a world league now. The old first division was mostly made up of clubs whose squads contained British players.

Players from abroad want to live in London and earn big money as their preference.

If Spurs had the ambition to pay the best players the biggest salaries they are now the best positioned English club to dominate.

Everything is in place for success but the wage structure.

ENIC and Levy deserve credit for their efforts in enabling the stadium to be built. Now it is there Spurs are back in the big time.

It's just unthinkable that ENIC could even consider attempting to cheap it out at the new stadium with their noughties fiscal policy.

If we allow them to get away with it; they will.

If we demand better; it will come whether they like it or not.
 
LeParisien said:
I wish we’d fluke something too. We almost fluked the champions league - would have been glorious!

I think you missed my comment about HUGE revenue differences compounding over time.

The best correlation between inputs and success are wages. I checked and in 2017 Spurs had a wage bill of £120m and Woolwich hs a wage bill of £234m - so almost double. So yes, Woolwich’s huge advantage in revenue for two decades was being used to ensure success on the pitch.

This is a bit embarrassing for you now.

Would you like a lesson in probability? Unlikely events sometimes transpire but they doesn’t mean slightly more likely (but still relatively unlikely) events should therefore happen more often. I can give a nice visual example if you’d like.
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Except it didn't .. because they won something when the wage bill/revenue evened up & are on course to do it again.. this is a bit embarrasing for you now, you patronising fucking bore. And now we're in a similar place that Woolwich were in when they won those FA cup titles, we're still no closer to winning shit all. In fact we've gotten further away to the point where Newcastle needed 200 million to catch up with us. Incredible, what they didn't need a 30 year plan to get here?

Would you like a lesson in not being a twat? Just fuck off and blame jet-lag again please, do everyone a fucking favour. I don't think anyone wants to hear how Woolwich/Leicester are just lucky and all we need is another 20 years to win something.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Except it didn't .. because they won something when the wage bill/revenue evened up & are on course to do it again.. this is a bit embarrasing for you now, you patronising fucking bore. And now we're in a similar place that Woolwich were in when they won those FA cup titles, we're still no closer to winning shit all. In fact we've gotten further away to the point where Newcastle needed 200 million to catch up with us. Incredible, what they didn't need a 30 year plan to get here?

Would you like a lesson in not being a twat? Just fuck off and blame jet-lag again please, do everyone a fucking favour. I don't think anyone wants to hear how Woolwich/Leicester are just lucky and all we need is another 20 years to win something.
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There I was thinking ENIC-OUT clan were civil.

I know you don’t want to hear it but luck does play a part in experimental outcomes. This is exactly what maths tells us. If you replayed the season where Leicester won the league 100 times then Leicester would not win 100 times. In fact I’d wager we would win more times than Leicester.

Your fundamental perspective is emotional and reactionary though so logic and facts will not be enough to persuade you.

I think this conversation has run it’s course. Neither of us will change our stance given the way the conversation is going and anyone else who is amenable to evidence and argument has more than enough to go on already.
 
LeParisien said:
There I was thinking ENIC-OUT clan were civil.

I know you don’t want to hear it but luck does play a part in experimental outcomes. This is exactly what maths tells us. If you replayed the season where Leicester won the league 100 times then Leicester would not win 100 times. In fact I’d wager we would win more times than Leicester.

Your fundamental perspective is emotional and reactionary though so logic and facts will not be enough to persuade you.

I think this conversation has run it’s course. Neither of us will change our stance given the way the conversation is going and anyone else who is amenable to evidence and argument has more than enough to go on already.
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Yes, 85% of the forum has already made their mind up. The fanbase has woken up, they aren't tolerating the excuses any longer whilst watching other clubs continually climb the ladder faster than us and claim silverware. They're sick of being told that we've just had 15 years of bad luck.

As for being 'civil' - like I said, you're not so I'm not. I'm matching your passive aggressive, patronising energy. Just like in the other ENIC thread you're making snidy little comments and expecting someone to be nice in response .. not happening.
 
Not tagging him because it’s pointless but nobody has claimed 15 years of bad luck. The strongest teams should win most of the trophies. They do in fact win most of the trophies. Occasionally a less strong team gets lucky and wins a trophy.

it’s nice when words have meaning.

Those who are more favourable to ENIC tend to be more rational and calm. The ENIC out argument mostly comes down to frustration and anger - it’s very emotional.

I don’t really know how to cross that divide because I don’t have strong emotions to sway the other side. It also seems to me that the Enic out lot don’t have much more than anger and precious little argument or evidence to sway the other side.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Except it didn't .. because they won something when the wage bill/revenue evened up & are on course to do it again.. this is a bit embarrasing for you now, you patronising fucking bore. And now we're in a similar place that Woolwich were in when they won those FA cup titles, we're still no closer to winning shit all. In fact we've gotten further away to the point where Newcastle needed 200 million to catch up with us. Incredible, what they didn't need a 30 year plan to get here?

Would you like a lesson in not being a twat? Just fuck off and blame jet-lag again please, do everyone a fucking favour. I don't think anyone wants to hear how Woolwich/Leicester are just lucky and all we need is another 20 years to win something.
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To be fair I actually think the poster you're replying to made some good points, don't think you need to resort to keep telling people to fuck off.
 
LeParisien said:
I don’t really know how to cross that divide because I don’t have strong emotions to sway the other side. It also seems to me that the Enic out lot don’t have much more than anger and precious little argument or evidence to sway the other side.
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There's no sides anymore. There's the vast majority of people and a small collection of you who are denying what is in front of your face.

You've lost the argument. The fans don't trust in ENIC any longer, despite your 'eVidEncE'.
 
Cranston said:
Well carry on supporting ENIC and we’ll certainly be out of Europe.

:chicco:
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Haha

However….

Past 20 years - 16 years in europe, 6 in CL.
Previous 20 years - 6 years in europe, 0 in CL.

Definitely easier to get CL now but back then it was easier to get into Europe.

We’ve never had it so good in terms of regular European competition.
 
Feels like the clubs supporters are around 85% Levy/ENIC out. Also seems like Conte's manner and the on-field performances this year have about 50% of supporters wanting him changed as well.

I don't see Levy or ENIC leaving anytime soon. I don't see the supporters mobilizing on a strong or aggressive enough scale to even force the issue into consideration. I think we'll make two decent signings this window, chug along to a 4-6th place finish, and if Conte can find another landing spot he'll be gone in the summer.
 
LeParisien said:
Not tagging him because it’s pointless but nobody has claimed 15 years of bad luck. The strongest teams should win most of the trophies. They do in fact win most of the trophies. Occasionally a less strong team gets lucky and wins a trophy.

it’s nice when words have meaning.

Those who are more favourable to ENIC tend to be more rational and calm. The ENIC out argument mostly comes down to frustration and anger - it’s very emotional.

I don’t really know how to cross that divide because I don’t have strong emotions to sway the other side. It also seems to me that the Enic out lot don’t have much more than anger and precious little argument or evidence to sway the other side.
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I'm not particularly ENIC in or out, largely because I fear what the alternative might be, but there is plenty of evidence to support the animosity towards them.

They have built up the tangible assets such as the training ground and stadium, as investment companies are wont to do. For everything football-related they have been poor or lucky, and we've been going backwards for three years.
 
Man, the cunt-offs these last days!

Awesome Seth Meyers GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
Raumdeuterz said:
There's no sides anymore. There's the vast majority of people and a small collection of you who are denying what is in front of your face.
You've lost the argument. The fans don't trust in ENIC any longer, despite your 'eVidEncE'.
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You're absolutely right mate.

You've schooled him. He's lost the argument. They've lost the argument.

The dwindling hard-core of ENIC fanatics are playing their last cards.

Personal attacks on other posters, arrogant assumptions that over 80% of the forum are either simple of mind or deluded, and, worst of all, belittling the great pre ENIC history of our football club.

It's sad. It's desperate, and it's so fucking predictable :memeokay:
 
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