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Management Levy / ENIC

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Levy In or Levy Out

  • Total voters
    368
stevee said:
Mate, you're wasting your time.

He does this with everyone, claims to be open to an honest debate.
Then when someone either disagrees with him him, or posts something that he can't disagree with , he accuses them of "arguing in bad faith" and puts them on ignore .
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Hmmm, thanks for the warning, I’ve certainly had some vibes of that at various points earlier today, but I believe in giving everyone a fair chance, and todd1882 seems to be willing extend me the same courtesy, so after a dubious beginning but perhaps improved recent exchanges, let’s see where it goes next. Either way, I certainly won’t be putting anyone on ignore just because they disagree with me or we can’t find any common ground etc – each to their own, but that goes against everything I believe in (and a lot of what I’m trying to get across in that very conversation somewhat ironically… ;) ).
 
Billy Bob said:
Anyone that thinks they can force ENIC to sell is living in a dream world.

They sell if we get a stupidly large offer or they start losing money and there aren't enough fans that'll stop giving Spurs money to make the second one happen.

People been chanting for Poch for months...he really listened to that didn't he?
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No but you can force a couple of alts

1) Pinhead sells his own stake to Lewis or someone else and bails

2) Pinhead stands down and employs a CEO and retains his stake

We just need the cunt and his echo chamber of stale, inexperienced bastards like Donna /Collecot out and a culture and strategy revamp. Read the Athletic piece - it’s an incredible piece of journalism and articulates exactly how and why this fucking bastard needs to go. ROTTEN far deeper than the shit first team, it’s endemic at all levels
 
Zomb said:
No but you can force a couple of alts

1) Pinhead sells his own stake to Lewis or someone else and bails

2) Pinhead stands down and employs a CEO and retains his stake

We just need the cunt and his echo chamber of stale, inexperienced bastards like Donna /Collecot out and a culture and strategy revamp. Read the Athletic piece - it’s an incredible piece of journalism and articulates exactly how and why this fucking bastard needs to go. ROTTEN far deeper than the shits first team, it’s endemic at all levels
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Why would they though?

You all think he's about the money and doesn't care about the fans. He's happy then. He's making money and he doesn't care what you think about it.
 
Billy Bob said:
Why would they though?

You all think he's about the money and doesn't care about the fans. He's happy then. He's making money and he doesn't care what you think about it.
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I think there’s a balance. Lewis no care in the world. Sells at his price. Levy isn’t as wealthy as him and has to endure the pies being chucked and self doubt. I think we can get him
 
Zomb said:
I think there’s a balance. Lewis no care in the world. Sells at his price. Levy isn’t as wealthy as him and has to endure the pies being chucked and self doubt. I think we can get him
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Nah I don't see it. He's had thick enough skin for a long time. He's only going when he decides.

Everyone can do what they want of course but when he goes, it won't be because of chants or protests.
 
Billy Bob said:
The narrative is you all get worked up having cunt offs about things that, at the end of the day, you have absolutely no control over.

When they eventually sell or Levy steps down, you'll be on here claiming that I was wrong and that your campaign worked. The reality will be that they made a decision that suited them, at the time it suited them.

It's a fruitless endeavour to keep getting worked up about.
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You can always put people on ignore
 
scarletjim said:
Hmmm, so perhaps we are chancing upon a fundamental point where we disagree (which for me would be some type of progress maybe :) ). Whilst I agree that I think my criteria are the 'best' (for want of a better expression) from the way I see things, I do nevertheless appreciate that other people have their own criteria which are just as valid as mine. I admit not everyone can do this - for closed-minded people, your assertions above are correct, but for open-minded people, i.e. those willing to accept that other people can have different, but equally valid opinions to their own, your assertions above don't apply in my opinion. So again, it would be unfair for me to criticise performance given my criteria, but perfectly fair in my opinion for you to criticise given your criteria, as I recognise and respect that you have different criteria to me, and for me there is nothing inconsistent or incongruent about that (perhaps for you there is).
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So now we have YOUR answer to the question...
todd1882 said:
So, for you, the answer is NO...it is unfair to criticize the chairman/owners of a club established in 1882, viewed as part of a big 6 clubs in a country and, as such, was part of the establishing of the PL, for suffering the first trophy-deficient decade?
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And that's based on your criteria...which I believe everyone on the ENIC OUT side would say is totally fair for you to have your own set of performance criteria. Taken us a few back and forths but we got there in the end.

And your criteria is:
scarletjim said:
Just realised I've not answered your first question there, what does 'success' or 'good football results performance' look like for me. I'll be honest, I've not pinned or penned a precise criteria on it before as it could be impacted by many variable drivers, but roughly speaking nowadays it's something like:
- being in the race for top 4, achieving it let's say 2-3 times every 5 years, knowing that sometimes we will miss out, and sometimes we may be in the race for the title.
- ideally winning a trophy say every 5 years, but appreciating that sometimes luck plays a part in single games, so therefore at least getting close to winning a trophy (say semi-finals at least) once every 2/3 years.
- we may of course over or under perform for a couple of years within any given period, so the above would be judged over a medium to long term timeframe, let's say 3-5+ years.

As I say, I've not been asked to precise that before so I'm not certain about it, but it would be something like that.

Is that helpful? I'm sorry it's not the yes/no answer you were hoping for, but it's more nuanced than that as I suspect we disagree on some of the definitions (e.g. 'unfair') and associated nuances & perhaps to some degree semantics. I am trying my best...
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Ok, so this is success to you...of note, it does include trophies as part of it...which one might suspect for a club of our size/history etc etc. But I'd have to say that it is totally fair and even though I would have thought it from your replies...I can't say that my criteria is a hell of a lot different than yours.

I have, until recently (and haven't fully worked it all out), seen the merit off Tottenham Massive Tottenham Massive ' take but differed on the extent of the cure...but there's only 1 side seeing, arguing, appreciating reality. Though you've thrown around suggestions like close-minded they fall flat. I accept the infrastructure, solid business, etc etc etc. But does the chairman's letters in the gameday program talk about that stuff? If it doesn't there might be a reason.

That said...BY YOUR OWN CRITERIA ENIC IS FAILING!!!!!

Top 4 every 2.5/5 years would be 10x and we've made it 6x I believe and 2/3rds of that was the Poch years. (Redknapp, Poch 4x, Conte?) - FAIL

Trophy/5years - FAIL

Judge over an appropriate timeframe for proper context - what works for you? 2008? 2019?

By this criteria I struggle to see how someone could still be ENIC IN or think it UNFAIR to criticize Levy/ENIC.

I think that's a QED moment, Jim.
 
John Thomas said:
That's absolute bollocks. If he was Catholic, Muslim or any other race or religion the narrative would be the same because it's how he acts. Not his heritage.
There are and have been many Jewish owners and chairman in the Premier League. Abramovich, the Glazers, Gold etc.....
They're not targeted because they're Jewish.

And this debate was started by someone suggesting one or some of the banners were anti semitic. That is a serious allegation to make and should be substantiated.

If not, one can only conclude that people are using disgusting, unsubstantiated slurs to discredit those who want Levy / ENIC out of our club
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I did substantiate it. I'm not sure what the banner's creators were intending but it can certainly be read a certain way. If they want people on their side they would do well to avoid such things
 
todd1882 said:
So now we have YOUR answer to the question...

And that's based on your criteria...which I believe everyone on the ENIC OUT side would say is totally fair for you to have your own set of performance criteria. Taken us a few back and forths but we got there in the end.

And your criteria is:

Ok, so this is success to you...of note, it does include trophies as part of it...which one might suspect for a club of our size/history etc etc. But I'd have to say that it is totally fair and even though I would have thought it from your replies...I can't say that my criteria is a hell of a lot different than yours.

I have, until recently (and haven't fully worked it all out), seen the merit off Tottenham Massive Tottenham Massive ' take but differed on the extent of the cure...but there's only 1 side seeing, arguing, appreciating reality. Though you've thrown around suggestions like close-minded they fall flat. I accept the infrastructure, solid business, etc etc etc. But does the chairman's letters in the gameday program talk about that stuff? If it doesn't there might be a reason.

That said...BY YOUR OWN CRITERIA ENIC IS FAILING!!!!!

Top 4 every 2.5/5 years would be 10x and we've made it 6x I believe and 2/3rds of that was the Poch years. (Redknapp, Poch 4x, Conte?) - FAIL

Trophy/5years - FAIL

Judge over an appropriate timeframe for proper context - what works for you? 2008? 2019?

By this criteria I struggle to see how someone could still be ENIC IN or think it UNFAIR to criticize Levy/ENIC.

I think that's a QED moment, Jim.
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Not to quote myself but I gotta quote myself...I missed the other Redknapp year when Chels won the CL...doens't change my point.
 
John Thomas said:
And you're point is?
Should we all just shut the fuck up and accept our lot? or start singing only one Daniel Levy?
What's the narrative here?
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It’s true though isn’t it, they only way they go is when someone pays what they want, if nobody reaches that number they’ll just hold on. It’s what they’ve done in the past. Man U are doing it now.

I do think the chanting in the crowd has to have a personal effect on him, it has to for any person. But whether it would make him more stubborn to stay or not is probably the question. It would make me want to stay as a two fingers up to the fans, but eventually I’d stop going to games or watch it from inside. I can’t see him doing that though, he’ll stay in his seat hoping it will blow over.
 
todd1882 said:
So now we have YOUR answer to the question...

And that's based on your criteria...which I believe everyone on the ENIC OUT side would say is totally fair for you to have your own set of performance criteria. Taken us a few back and forths but we got there in the end.

And your criteria is:

Ok, so this is success to you...of note, it does include trophies as part of it...which one might suspect for a club of our size/history etc etc. But I'd have to say that it is totally fair and even though I would have thought it from your replies...I can't say that my criteria is a hell of a lot different than yours.

I have, until recently (and haven't fully worked it all out), seen the merit off Tottenham Massive Tottenham Massive ' take but differed on the extent of the cure...but there's only 1 side seeing, arguing, appreciating reality. Though you've thrown around suggestions like close-minded they fall flat. I accept the infrastructure, solid business, etc etc etc. But does the chairman's letters in the gameday program talk about that stuff? If it doesn't there might be a reason.

That said...BY YOUR OWN CRITERIA ENIC IS FAILING!!!!!

Top 4 every 2.5/5 years would be 10x and we've made it 6x I believe and 2/3rds of that was the Poch years. (Redknapp, Poch 4x, Conte?) - FAIL

Trophy/5years - FAIL

Judge over an appropriate timeframe for proper context - what works for you? 2008? 2019?

By this criteria I struggle to see how someone could still be ENIC IN or think it UNFAIR to criticize Levy/ENIC.

I think that's a QED moment, Jim.
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Whether or not ENIC is failing by my criteria surely depends partly on the timeframe taken into account. You know you mentioned earlier about looking for evidence to support a belief rather than the other way around - are you sure you didn't do that when choosing a 20-year timeframe? ;)

Naturally I appreciate ENIC couldn't make it all happen overnight, they needed time for anything they did to have impact, so considering the last 10 years seem reasonable enough to me - that gives ENIC plenty of years to bed their ways in and show improvement. I don't have the data immediately to hand (and will get beaten up by my wife if I don't put the laptop down for this evening soon... 😂 ) but presumably in the last 10 years or thereabouts we have probably achieved my league expectation above haven't we? With regard to trophies, you've rather conveniently ignored most of that clause - we have had several near misses, and I thought I was quite clear above that whilst ideally we would win a trophy every 5 years, getting into the positions to do so is success for me, knowing that if we keep getting close then on the law of averages we're bound to win one sooner or later (surely we've got to win a bloody final sooner or later! :) ).

With respect, the 'QED moment' comment seems a little arrogant - a 20-year timeframe leads my criteria to suggest failure, a 10-year timeframe doesn't, so that definitely shows not only recent 'success' but also improvement since ENIC arrived - why would this cause a QED moment for me? I'm happy to continue discussing, but I won't be patronised or bullied into agreeing with you. (Apologies if your QED comment was intended to be tongue-in-cheek or something like that - I'm notoriously bad at reading such things, my brain was made wrong haha :) ).

Right, time to give some attention to my wife (that sounded wrong - I mean watching TV together or something :) )- have a good evening and I'll pick up 'the next instalment' tomorrow morning hopefully.
 
Taricco's Tackle said:
Daniel "the rat" levy. Next to another banner of him dressed as the grim reaper gleefully clutching a big bag of money. This may not be intentional but the undertones are there for all to see
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So there are no anti Semitic banners in that video then

Thanks for confirming

The banners are rather unpleasant and I personally wouldn't go with something like that , it's not necessary

But anti Semitic they ain't and I'm Jewish btw
 
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1882 said:
It doesn't need to be obvious
...
Every TIME the media report on Spurs' transfer dealings, it's ALWAYS with the caveat that Daniel Levy drives a hard (Jewish) bargain.... and that he's hard to JEW business with.... and that Spurs always want the best deal and will pay pittance for anyone else, but demand extortionate amounts for their players....

It doesn't take Oswald Moseley to work out the narrative!
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Yeah but every person who has dealings with him says the same thing.
 
McCOYS said:
Why do you post anti Levy/ENIC propaganda over the rest of the forum? It's tedious.

:mourloopy:
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If it's relevant to the debate, I'll post what I like, where I like.
If it's not relevant, I keep it in this thread.
And I think a large percentage of the forum are more than happy for me to do so and find my input both interesting and thought provoking.

:kaneshh:

The fact I have a habit of being proven right also helps, probably.


You're quite new to this thread. Is it because you're feeling rattled by the Levy Out sentiment within the stadium last night?

Do you feel he is ultimately responsible for the alarming downturn in fortunes since failing to back and then firing Pochettino?
 
John Thomas said:
I can't see anything anti - semetic. This allegation has been used abhorrently before to try and tarnish ENIC out protesters. It needs to be substantiated or withdrawn.
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I am struggling to even come up with any argument as to why any of banners could possibly be anti-Semitic. I do know at least one of those was made by a Jewish guy and a few people at the protest are Jewish. I know that because I recognise them from We Are Tottenham TV
 
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