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Management Levy / ENIC

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Levy In or Levy Out

  • Total voters
    355
Furball man said:
Ruthless & professional. Again you took one word 😔

Ruthless , as Aberdeen said , getting shot of trash quicker not tolerating amateur ish balls ups like the Doherty farce as one example , professional as in getting the right team to run the club as a priority

Romero , contract up in 2027, Porro the same . The status quo will not keep them here , Romero is already moaning

Richarlison? Eh? The others have talent but no consistency, maybe that’s due to over playing , weak squad , maybe it’s mindset but let’s be honest, how many of them walk into a top team?

Our best performers of late have been teenagers

Anyways you seem fairly content with the situation
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OK ruthless and professional - not mutually exclusive - it was ruthless to get rid of Jose but professional - not so much.

Absolutely we struggle to be the club you and many others want us to be - I get it, I see where it comes from, but I also think there is nuance there our failings are not a binary for me.

That being said, I would as 99% of fans would, welcome new owners who can sort it - this, for me, would be best if it came from people who have run sports franchises before and understand what it actually takes to realise that balance - offering a cushy experience to the players without allowing them to coast for example.

Im not fairly content with our place in the league and performance of the team on the pitch but again, for me it doesnt scream of players and staff resting on their laurels.

Sacking the manager the last month without a good replacement would again seem ruthless but pretty unprofessional.
 
Dudski said:
We appear to have passed a critical point where Tottenham Hotspur Football Club was the focus of the business. THFC still exists, of course, but the primary focus is commercial projects. The NFL is much more profitable than the Premier League and getting an NFL franchise (and being able to afford to buy in when the time comes) is probably now the focus. Spurs could eventually be the secondary tenant of the stadium. Spurs would never have had to build the stadium they did if their focus was on the football club.
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ENIC don't need Spurs supporters on board any more do they?

They can do what they want to us now the megadome has been built.

By the looks of it ENIC & Levy will sell tickets to anyone; for any event at the megadome and exploit them to the max.

If the supporters of the tennant football club don't like it; they don't have to come.

Tickets can be sold to anyone who wants to come.

The only concession I expect from ENIC going forward is a reduction in the ticket price once people stop paying top dollar for ENIC's jam tomorrow.

It's shit; but that's what it looks like to me.
 
Cranston said:
The club should be more ambitious than this.

Some good players listed. They might come good, but they might not. Udogie and Sarr are already starting to struggle. We’ve seen nothing of Odobert or Moore. VdV and Gray look the business.

There’s always the risk of tricking ourselves into thinking that young players are guaranteed to develop simply by affording them more time at an earlier stage. In fact, all you work out is whether they’re good enough quicker.

ENIC love this profile of player because you don’t have to pay them high wages.

It’s not good enough. If we have any even remote intention of competing, we need to transfer in players that demand 200k plus a week. Yes, Solanke was £65 million. But we got him because he’s on 125k a week. There are Chav players you’ve never heard of that earn that.
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But clubs that are having success right now didn't need to do that at all - Liverpool haven't - their players earning that have all been there for years - Chavs finished 12th and 6th respectively the last couple of years - Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth are seeing a very consistent season without spending that - This year, we will likely see the top 6 being a mixture of teams that are bringing in players on those wages, and teams that have not.

Also, every single club loves that profile of player - Arsneal have built a title challenging team on players that they brought in on wages under 100k and only added in players for more than that, and increased the wages of the lesser paid players once they were happy with the direction the manager was taking them.

SO its a balance for me, one we are not getting right but I don't think the answer is as simple as 'pay the wages'
 
dudu said:
SO its a balance for me, one we are not getting right but I don't think the answer is as simple as 'pay the wages'
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Not all the teams who pay top wages achieve success. I agree with that.

However; the serious teams that achieve success do 'pay the wages'

ENIC and Levy charge premium prices but do not pay the wages to the very best players.

The chairman at THFC has more often than not been one of the best paid chairman in the Premier League and paid himself a bonus for delivering one League Cup in 24 years.

It's obvious and inexcusable.

How much longer can it be defended?
 
Kosher Kid said:
Not all the teams who pay top wages achieve success. I agree with that.

However; the serious teams that achieve success do 'pay the wages'

ENIC and Levy charge premium prices but do not pay the wages to the very best players.

The chairman at THFC has more often than not been one of the best paid chairman in the Premier League and paid himself a bonus for delivering one League Cup in 24 years.

It's obvious and inexcusable.

How much longer can it be defended?
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You have to get the best players though. Our problem is we don’t do that.
I don’t think they will choose us ahead of other big clubs. It doesn’t matter if you give everybody 300 grand a week, if you’ve got 24 Ndombellys or Antonys etc you’re still fucked.
 
dudu said:
OK ruthless and professional - not mutually exclusive - it was ruthless to get rid of Jose but professional - not so much.

Absolutely we struggle to be the club you and many others want us to be - I get it, I see where it comes from, but I also think there is nuance there our failings are not a binary for me.

That being said, I would as 99% of fans would, welcome new owners who can sort it - this, for me, would be best if it came from people who have run sports franchises before and understand what it actually takes to realise that balance - offering a cushy experience to the players without allowing them to coast for example.

Im not fairly content with our place in the league and performance of the team on the pitch but again, for me it doesnt scream of players and staff resting on their laurels.

Sacking the manager the last month without a good replacement would again seem ruthless but pretty unprofessional.
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Yeah , I’m not really a staunch Ange out but he has made some pretty ridiculous calls , he probably should t have been hired in the first place but the media wheels were set in motion to make it be some kind of swashbuckling adventure which is pretty embarrassing.

I do think that he hasn’t been truly back knowing the amount of games we knew we’d have especially knowing the intensity of his tactics , which again , I see as neglect
 
dudu said:
SO its a balance for me, one we are not getting right but I don't think the answer is as simple as 'pay the wages'
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Well, wage bill does appear to be the clearest indicator of success. Or, at the very least, chance of success. There are obvious examples of poor recruitment like UTD, but repeat winners are paying their players accordingly.

‘Pay the wages’ is not the simple answer. But it’s a universal principle across all forms of human endeavour. Consider it a foundation rather than an answer.

And Daniel rather likes his own wage. He doesn’t appear to favour market prudence when it comes to his own renumeration.
 
Cranston said:
Well, wage bill does appear to be the clearest indicator of success. Or, at the very least, chance of success. There are obvious examples of poor recruitment like UTD, but repeat winners are paying their players accordingly.

‘Pay the wages’ is not the simple answer. But it’s a universal principle across all forms of human endeavour. Consider it a foundation rather than an answer.

And Daniel rather likes his own wage. He doesn’t appear to favour market prudence when it comes to his own renumeration.
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I’d imagine that the teams that spend most on wages also are the teams who spend the most on transfers? And spend the most on their youth facilities and training?

So not only do we need to find the money for more wages, but for the new players etc too. And we seem to already be loss making.

Plus, we buy Osimhen and Kvara and pay each of them 250-300k per week. Do we then have a line of players at Levy’s door asking for an uplift too?

Looks to me that we need to close the massive revenue gap to the sides above us before we can splurge.

Saying all that as someone who is nowhere near an expert on this.
 
Kane you believe it said:
If thus data is accurate the surprising thing for me is that there isn't a rapid increase following the stadium opening in 2019.

We appear to remain on the same upward trend that had initiated prior to the new stadium.
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Upward trend?

The gradient at the end there is the steepest decline on the whole fucking graph and we're still a fucking hundred million behind the nearest team's wage bill.
 
AberdeenYid said:
I’d imagine that the teams that spend most on wages also are the teams who spend the most on transfers? And spend the most on their youth facilities and training?

So not only do we need to find the money for more wages, but for the new players etc too. And we seem to already be loss making.

Plus, we buy Osimhen and Kvara and pay each of them 250-300k per week. Do we then have a line of players at Levy’s door asking for an uplift too?

Looks to me that we need to close the massive revenue gap to the sides above us before we can splurge.

Saying all that as someone who is nowhere near an expert on this.
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At the upper echelons, I’m reasonably confident that football transfers and spending are simply one massive money laundering operation. If you look at Clearlake, I suspect they’re ploughing money into football players in the same way that Joe Lewis buys art. It legitimises the source of funds. And they clearly don’t give a shit about sporting penalties as there’s always an accounting trick on hand.

Then you have the likes of Juve and Barcelona, who are simply absurd and would be bankrupt in any other commercial sector.

Player wages are fucking absurd. Levy has absolutely zero interest in playing at that altitude. His risk tolerance is as close to zero as possible. He hedges both transfer fees and player wages against future success - if you achieve A then you get B.

Our competitors tend to say ‘Join us and we’ll give you B’.

Basically, we need to get taken over by crooks that like football and see the pursuit of success as worth losing money over and committing accounting fraud for.
 
Cranston said:
At the upper echelons, I’m reasonably confident that football transfers and spending are simply one massive money laundering operation. If you look at Clearlake, I suspect they’re ploughing money into football players in the same way that Joe Lewis buys art. It legitimises the source of funds. And they clearly don’t give a shit about sporting penalties as there’s always an accounting trick on hand.

Then you have the likes of Juve and Barcelona, who are simply absurd and would be bankrupt in any other commercial sector.

Player wages are fucking absurd. Levy has absolutely zero interest in playing at that altitude. His risk tolerance is as close to zero as possible. He hedges both transfer fees and player wages against future success - if you achieve A then you get B.

Our competitors tend to say ‘Join us and we’ll give you B’.

Basically, we need to get taken over by crooks that like football and see the pursuit of success as worth losing money over and committing accounting fraud for.
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Can’t disagree with any of that.

But we can’t expect our present owners to take the plunge at this stage as they’ve never done it before.
 
Cranston said:
Well, wage bill does appear to be the clearest indicator of success. Or, at the very least, chance of success. There are obvious examples of poor recruitment like UTD, but repeat winners are paying their players accordingly.

‘Pay the wages’ is not the simple answer. But it’s a universal principle across all forms of human endeavour. Consider it a foundation rather than an answer.

And Daniel rather likes his own wage. He doesn’t appear to favour market prudence when it comes to his own renumeration.
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That is fair - like, im not saying we should pay more wages - but the graph clearly represented - pre stadium, that we were doing so at a rate to play catch up? Our best players, who stayed the longest got a fair wedge and we did bring in some players on pretty decent sums too - the graph shows it.

Was anyone on here that is talking wages now, happy when that was happening? I seem to remember when we were massively increasing our wages, the conversation came back to transfer fees, now we are paying better transfer fees, the conversation is about wages.

Forgive me but the discussion seems to change to fit whatever the current trend shows and there doesnt seem to be much consistency in the issue - it just lurches from one complaint to the next grasping for a reason as to why we aren't giving people the vibes they want.

For instance - years of finishing in the top 4 and the argument was we don't win things - IF (we probably wont but if) we win a cup this season I feel the argument will be well we didn't finish in the top 4....
 
dudu said:
That is fair - like, im not saying we should pay more wages - but the graph clearly represented - pre stadium, that we were doing so at a rate to play catch up? Our best players, who stayed the longest got a fair wedge and we did bring in some players on pretty decent sums too - the graph shows it.

Was anyone on here that is talking wages now, happy when that was happening? I seem to remember when we were massively increasing our wages, the conversation came back to transfer fees, now we are paying better transfer fees, the conversation is about wages.

Forgive me but the discussion seems to change to fit whatever the current trend shows and there doesnt seem to be much consistency in the issue - it just lurches from one complaint to the next grasping for a reason as to why we aren't giving people the vibes they want.

For instance - years of finishing in the top 4 and the argument was we don't win things - IF (we probably wont but if) we win a cup this season I feel the argument will be well we didn't finish in the top 4....
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To get to the top, we need to spend more on transfers and more on wages at the same time. Or try a remarkably different strategy, which we have done with Ange and it’s not worked.

As for the cup over league position thing, I’d better not read that on here. It’s been years of “I just want a cup, I don’t care about top four” and “I’d 100% swap places with Leicester”, etc, I’ll go on the fucking rampage.
 
dudu said:
That is fair - like, im not saying we should pay more wages - but the graph clearly represented - pre stadium, that we were doing so at a rate to play catch up? Our best players, who stayed the longest got a fair wedge and we did bring in some players on pretty decent sums too - the graph shows it.

Was anyone on here that is talking wages now, happy when that was happening? I seem to remember when we were massively increasing our wages, the conversation came back to transfer fees, now we are paying better transfer fees, the conversation is about wages.

Forgive me but the discussion seems to change to fit whatever the current trend shows and there doesnt seem to be much consistency in the issue - it just lurches from one complaint to the next grasping for a reason as to why we aren't giving people the vibes they want.

For instance - years of finishing in the top 4 and the argument was we don't win things - IF (we probably wont but if) we win a cup this season I feel the argument will be well we didn't finish in the top 4....
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Better transfer fees compared to who exactly?

Wise up.
 
AberdeenYid said:
I’d imagine that the teams that spend most on wages also are the teams who spend the most on transfers? And spend the most on their youth facilities and training?

So not only do we need to find the money for more wages, but for the new players etc too. And we seem to already be loss making.

Plus, we buy Osimhen and Kvara and pay each of them 250-300k per week. Do we then have a line of players at Levy’s door asking for an uplift too?

Looks to me that we need to close the massive revenue gap to the sides above us before we can splurge.

Saying all that as someone who is nowhere near an expert on this.
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We're going to see big reductions in income from the poor performance of the team this season. But ENIC will just cut investment in the team as a consequence.
 
I'll just leave this here, adjusted for inflation 1992-2021.

Screenshot-20250123-172707-Reddit.jpg


Pulled from this Reddit post.

I'd imagine we have some very large sales adjusted for inflation.

Even Solanke was because of a fucking clause in the contract and that was still peanuts compared to most other teams...who else was in for him again?
 
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