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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%

  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%
  • Total voters
    113
To find out if this argument of "managerial-merry-go-round" holds any water, I looked at the number of full time managers* some of the most established clubs in the world have had in the 21st century. Do we really change managers on a whim, especially in a way that other clubs do not? Let's see.

* All those teams had their fair share of interims as well by the way, so excluding them doesn't alter the picture.

Madrid:15
Barcelona:14
Milan:12
Inter:18
Dortmund:13
Bayern:13
PSV:11
Feyenoord:14
Tottenham:12
Liverpool:6
United:7
Chelsea:17
Woolwich:3

I'm not claiming 100 percent accuracy in those numbers, but the picture is clear regardless. Barring few exceptions that skew the numbers such as Guardiola, Wenger, SAF, Klopp and Arteta, teams change managers every 2 or 3 years. We do not sack managers like crazy, we're just somewhere in the middle. So I have no idea what the aforementioned argument is actually based on.
 
HampshireSpur said:
Honestly I think he would at this point - we're not an attractive prospect (immediately) and they are building an exciting regime at Bournemouth, I think he'd see it as a risk perhaps not worth taking at this moment in time (that may change).

Where I do agree is that we are a big club and still have enough clout to pull a GOOD manager and this must be the aim once Angelos gets the boot.
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spurs job is coveted as fuck
 
BJK said:
To find out if this argument of "managerial-merry-go-round" holds any water, I looked at the number of full time managers* some of the most established clubs in the world have had in the 21st century. Do we really change managers on a whim, especially in a way that other clubs do not? Let's see.

* All those teams had their fair share of interims as well by the way, so excluding them doesn't alter the picture.

Madrid:15
Barcelona:14
Milan:12
Inter:18
Dortmund:13
Bayern:13
PSV:11
Feyenoord:14
Tottenham:12
Liverpool:6
United:7
Chelsea:17
Woolwich:3

I'm not claiming 100 percent accuracy in those numbers, but the picture is clear regardless. Barring few exceptions that skew the numbers such as Guardiola, Wenger, SAF, Klopp and Arteta, teams change managers every 2 or 3 years. We do not sack managers like crazy, we're just somewhere in the middle. So I have no idea what the aforementioned argument is actually based on.
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Is anyone still making that argument though? I was certainly one of those making it back in September / October, when what we were experiencing what looked to me like a combination of a temporary 'bump in the road', along with some pretty bad luck in games, but performances have got worse and worse, and we are now consistently poor, even bearing in mind the missing players. For that reason, if we could replace Ange with a better solution (either a long-term solution, or a short-term solution with a long term one in mind for the summer) then I'd be fine with us making that change now. (Whether or not such solutions exist right now is a completely different conversation).

I do still think that sacking a manager as soon as you have a few bad results is a stupid idea that will just damage your club in the long term, as potential candidates will be put off if they think they won't get a fair crack at the whip, but surely everyone agrees that the current situation is way beyond that don't they? :/
 
Archie said:
Any competent coach wouldn't be playing this overly energetic kamikaze system. So the players aren't fit to drop by November and then continue to play it with a serious injury crisis and you know it
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So bleedin' obvious. We all have goals in life which in a perfect world, would go to our plan. But realists know that this rarely happens and you have to adjust accordingly.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Well, lets admit it - the discussion here has become quite heated. From both sides obviously.
There is little doubt - everyone here want what is best for the club. Just their view what is best differs based on their interpretation of the situation.

I can admit (and have before), I am in the side of "Ange Out". But I feel that there are some very big misunderstandings going on here. I try to bring out two in short form. Not to convince anyone to change their stance, but just to explain this point of view.

1) INJURY SITUATION
I think that there is no one denying that there are lot of injuries and that has made the task of winning football matches much more difficult.
WHERE IT DIFFERS is that part of people see this as series of unfortunate events. And other sides puts responsibility of it on Ange shoulders.

2) RESULTS QUESTION
Well results are partly related to point 1. In here I cannot speak for 100% of the people that are in same (Ange Out) boat, but I believe still majority think along same lines - that current poor run of results in isolation would be forgivable. Because everyone make mistakes. I am pretty sure that no one in Ange Out side would seriously expect us to get guaranteed top 4 finish (not to even mention fighting for EPL title this season). But at least in my eyes, this current situation is NOT THE FIRST TIME OF SHOCKING RESULTS AND SHAPE OF THINGS. If we would have ended last season on high when the injured players returned, it would be very much different story for me. But very big questions came to my head already then. Just a quick reminder- last season from last 11 games we won 4 games. THREE of them were against relegated Burnley, Sheffield and Luton. One against Forest + draw against West Ham. Overall thus 13 points from 11 games. 1,2 ppg. With just one competition to participate in and with at least decent (if not full) availability.
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Yeah that's right on the money imo
 
Herclueless said:
No sane manager would look at Bournemouth/Spurs and decide that Bournemouth was the more exciting prospect, Iraola (if given the option) should be looking at the situation and thinking if he can achieve what he is doing at Bournemouth then what can he do with Spurs.
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On paper and by all metrics the Spurs job is far more attractive than B’mouth. But if a prospective manager was very talented and very ambitious then doing what Slot did would be the sane thing to do, ie look at how Jose, Nuno & Conte faired under Levy & decide to wait another season until a better opportunity became available.
There’s an old football adage, ‘choose the chairman not the club’.
 
scarletjim said:
Is anyone still making that argument though?
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Admittedly a minority still seems to be making it in defense of Ange, but what I was referring to is the more general sentiment that Levy is an especially trigger happy chairman that pulls the rug out from under any manager in the face of adversity. Based on those numbers he doesn't seem to be doing anything exceptional. Whether he "backs" managers in a more general sense is another story, but in this narrow sense he's quite ordinary.

scarletjim said:
I do still think that sacking a manager as soon as you have a few bad results is a stupid idea that will just damage your club in the long term, as potential candidates will be put off if they think they won't get a fair crack at the whip, but surely everyone agrees that the current situation is way beyond that don't they
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I think at this age managers have a quite realistic sense of their job safety, that's why during negotiations they try to insert clauses that'd yield them hefty payouts if/when they get the boot. So I don't see them being put off by that eventuality, pretty much any manager will get sacked at some point in his career. It doesn't tarnish anybody's reputation beyond repair in most cases.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Well, lets admit it - the discussion here has become quite heated. From both sides obviously.
There is little doubt - everyone here want what is best for the club. Just their view what is best differs based on their interpretation of the situation.

I can admit (and have before), I am in the side of "Ange Out". But I feel that there are some very big misunderstandings going on here. I try to bring out two in short form. Not to convince anyone to change their stance, but just to explain this point of view.

1) INJURY SITUATION
I think that there is no one denying that there are lot of injuries and that has made the task of winning football matches much more difficult.
WHERE IT DIFFERS is that part of people see this as series of unfortunate events. And other sides puts responsibility of it on Ange shoulders.

2) RESULTS QUESTION
Well results are partly related to point 1. In here I cannot speak for 100% of the people that are in same (Ange Out) boat, but I believe still majority think along same lines - that current poor run of results in isolation would be forgivable. Because everyone make mistakes. I am pretty sure that no one in Ange Out side would seriously expect us to get guaranteed top 4 finish (not to even mention fighting for EPL title this season). But at least in my eyes, this current situation is NOT THE FIRST TIME OF SHOCKING RESULTS AND SHAPE OF THINGS. If we would have ended last season on high when the injured players returned, it would be very much different story for me. But very big questions came to my head already then. Just a quick reminder- last season from last 11 games we won 4 games. THREE of them were against relegated Burnley, Sheffield and Luton. One against Forest + draw against West Ham. Overall thus 13 points from 11 games. 1,2 ppg. With just one competition to participate in and with at least decent (if not full) availability.
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For me it's simple.

After 18 months it is clear that Ange is not good enough to manage THFC.

He was given a chance and I don't blame him for taking the job.

Failing to recognise Ange's failure is another issue entirely.

What I see is a significant group of Spurs supporters wishfully thinking and not critically thinking. There are another significant group who have made their minds up. Some of these people reached their conclusion sooner than others. Then there are those who are committed to the club line who will back the manager until the club let him go.

Ange looks like a busted flush with every defeat and lame excuse that is offered.

We've been through the 'give him the cup games phase' and that went as most expected.

Climbing on board the next phase of hope, which seems to consist of players having a rest and other injured players returning, is not a bandwagon I wish to jump on.

We've been shit or inconsistent all season apart from the odd win here and there.

The manner of the defeats has been getting worse.

If Ange won the Europa League I would not trust him to start next season as THFC manager.

The project is dead.

An interim or permanent manager is now necessary to prevent the credibility of the club slipping any further under Ange.

It's untenable beyond this point.
 
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Herclueless said:
Well that depends on your assessment of Postecoglou, for him it could get worse...

Next season he could be credited as the first Manager to lead us into the Championship.

I make the no-lose comment on the basis that I don't believe that there is a more inept manager on the cards, and on the assumption that we will at the very least hire someone competent next.

However, knowing Spurs...

:levywtf:
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It's as if you can imagine what the oddest thing a team could do and if you wait around long enough it will happen with Spurs.
 
Mrs Perryman said:
I have to say that if I can't watch a game in the flesh, I don't tend to go down the pub to see away games, and give myself a day off from the worry and fretting. If it's good, will catch the highlights on Spursplay. I don't know why but I find myself restless and fidgety watching 90+ minutes on TV, and don't start me off on the pundits and commentators.
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Honestly, I’ve felt this way for a while, but this manager in particular has drained any desire I have to invest my time. It just feels like a wasted afternoon because, more often than not, I already know how it’s going to end.

Under Poch, I never missed a game, home or away; whether in person or on TV. Same with Jol and Redknapp. I’d give anything to have that sense of hope back again.

Ange has drained that hope out of me along with Levy, who ultimately, is the biggest problem at our club.

Very sad about it all tbh.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Honestly, I’ve felt this way for a while, but this manager in particular has drained any desire I have to invest my time. It just feels like a wasted afternoon because, more often than not, I already know how it’s going to end.

Under Poch, I never missed a game, home or away; whether in person or on TV. Same with Jol and Redknapp. I’d give anything to have that sense of hope back again.

Ange has drained that hope out of me along with Levy, who ultimately, is the biggest problem at our club.

Very sad about it all tbh.
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My United ticket just sold.

I'm more happy I don't have to go than I would be if we were to win, as that just doesn't matter now.
 
manmountainbutters said:
We lost and drew against the sort of teams we will be playing from now on though. That’s the concern. It really wasn’t a good record. It was ok and no more
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our domestic form is a real concern
what we have done in Europe so far not particularly. weakened teams and still qualified on losing the once away to Galatasary,

not sure how that's not fine, most teams are unlikely to destroy teams in europe when playing away from home, especially with heavily rotated line-ups.
wasn't that long ago that Conte massively struggled to qualify from Europa conference group, jose got knocked out of europa at the first stage by a team being coached by a guy in prison.
Not to mention that Poch crashed out at the first stage of the Europa by not being able to beat GENT of Belgium at home, this was with our strongest lineup mind you, Kane, Dele and all
 
Kaz Hirai said:
our domestic form is a real concern
what we have done in Europe so far not particularly. weakened teams and still qualified on losing the once away to Galatasary,

not sure how that's not fine, most teams are unlikely to destroy teams in europe when playing away from home, especially with heavily rotated line-ups.
wasn't that long ago that Conte massively struggled to qualify from Europa conference group, jose got knocked out of europa at the first stage by a team being coached by a guy in prison.
Not to mention that Poch crashed out at the first stage of the Europa by not being able to beat GENT of Belgium at home, this was with our strongest lineup mind you, Kane, Dele and all
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Lol its not about "destroying" teams at all. We didn't beat a single side of worth in the Europa League which is definitely a concern if your aim is to win the entire thing.

Its not a concern if you're happy to be a quarters/semis at best team who can beat the mid-table European sides but will lose against the handful of genuinely good teams.
 
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