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Management Levy / ENIC

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Levy In or Levy Out


  • Total voters
    351
Someone made an interesting point the other day on a podcast, remember when Levy said that he banned James Maddison from parking his car in the car park because it was red...yet the stadium was lit up in the same colour at the boxing.
 
I suppose I can get its place in the general downward spiral of the club. But I’ve to really push myself to see it as having anything to do with us. We rented the stadium out to a non football event, so it’s got little to do with us shipping four goals to Wolves. To me, just another in the long line of things that either doesn’t matter, or is untrue about our ownership.

Plenty of reasons to want them out over and above this.

I'm sure Levy should be savvy enough to rent out the stadium with certain conditions on what can and can not happen during said event.

We can't keep the name Tottenham Hotspur Stadium because of brand recognition then allow Gooner music to blare out from it live on TV, even from a branding point of view it doesn't make sense.

There are indeed many reasons to want them out, and this isn't the most important but it's cumulative. It doesn't help their case. There are people like me who were wavering on how good they've been overall and this just one of those last things to push me over the edge.
 
I'm sure Levy should be savvy enough to rent out the stadium with certain conditions on what can and can not happen during said event.

We can't keep the name Tottenham Hotspur Stadium because of brand recognition then allow Gooner music to blare out from it live on TV, even from a branding point of view it doesn't make sense.

There are indeed many reasons to want them out, and this isn't the most important but it's cumulative. It doesn't help their case. There are people like me who were wavering on how good they've been overall and this just one of those last things to push me over the edge.
I’m sure there are plenty of Ts and Cs for renting the stadium. Doubt Levy, or any of his minions, are hanging around the guy with the Spotify account to make sure he’s not playing Woolwich songs though.

Anyway, discussing this so much is implying I care, so I’ll leave you with my understanding that it’s added to your minus column and each to their own in that case.
 
Lewis worth is around $77b , there’s plenty of wiggle room in there to raise capital but like you said & I also said , they’re not interested .

Levy has laboured, yup & his value has risen from around £40m , I believe , to £400m. What we’re seeing football-wise is failure for personal gain .
You missed a period in there, for the record.

His Forbes net worth is $6.9B. He owns 70.12% of ENIC who own 86.58% of Spurs, so Lewis owns 60.7% of Spurs.

Spurs are valued by Forbes at $3.2B. Lewis' stake in Spurs is worth $1.94B. This represents 28% of his net worth. This share has decreased a good bit since the last time I ran these figures when it was well over 30%.

Still, you will not find another majority shareholders of a Top 6 club whose net worth is so largely tied up in their football club. I can't think of another owner I've run those numbers for (previous post on this topic gave results for all top 6 clubs and Villa I believe), and I don't recall one having more than 10% of their net worth tributary to their stake in the football club.

So, again, Lewis is very rich. Yes. But they still don't have access to the capital that our competitors do, nor the ability to absorb the same losses our competitors can. They can do more, absolutely, but its still a mischaracterization to attest that it's anything like equal footing. ENIC is also very illiquid, and their biggest asset, Tottenham Hotspur FC, is already heavily leveraged with stadium construction debt (at great interest rates - don't bring up any bollocks, the stadium is a revenue positive to the club even with the debt).
 
You missed a period in there, for the record.

His Forbes net worth is $6.9B. He owns 70.12% of ENIC who own 86.58% of Spurs, so Lewis owns 60.7% of Spurs.

Spurs are valued by Forbes at $3.2B. Lewis' stake in Spurs is worth $1.94B. This represents 28% of his net worth. This share has decreased a good bit since the last time I ran these figures when it was well over 30%.

Still, you will not find another majority shareholders of a Top 6 club whose net worth is so largely tied up in their football club. I can't think of another owner I've run those numbers for (previous post on this topic gave results for all top 6 clubs and Villa I believe), and I don't recall one having more than 10% of their net worth tributary to their stake in the football club.

So, again, Lewis is very rich. Yes. But they still don't have access to the capital that our competitors do, nor the ability to absorb the same losses our competitors can. They can do more, absolutely, but its still a mischaracterization to attest that it's anything like equal footing. ENIC is also very illiquid, and their biggest asset, Tottenham Hotspur FC, is already heavily leveraged with stadium construction debt (at great interest rates - don't bring up any bollocks, the stadium is a revenue positive to the club even with the debt).

I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make , the numbers & % are fascinating but football fans are generally only interested in football . We both agree that they could do more & that’s all that matters .

If they really can’t or don’t want to do more then they should sell up , they’ll make enough out of it & I'm sure they’re well aware that the fanbase are getting fed up with their half arsed approach.
 
Not read these predictions but judging on past seasons they just mirror what has happened this season with just a few adjustments. I bet noone had Notts Forest challenging for top 4 th

I’m not defending it. Just not letting it raise my blood pressure and wondering where the “how dare Levy allow this” line is drawn. Odd to me that people have been so offended by it.
You are joking our stadium has been infected by that shit.
Not down to Levy on the day but overall another fail for the slimy leech.
 
I'm sure Levy should be savvy enough to rent out the stadium with certain conditions on what can and can not happen during said event.

We can't keep the name Tottenham Hotspur Stadium because of brand recognition then allow Gooner music to blare out from it live on TV, even from a branding point of view it doesn't make sense.

There are indeed many reasons to want them out, and this isn't the most important but it's cumulative. It doesn't help their case. There are people like me who were wavering on how good they've been overall and this just one of those last things to push me over the edge.
Wavering.......ffs
 
You missed a period in there, for the record.

His Forbes net worth is $6.9B. He owns 70.12% of ENIC who own 86.58% of Spurs, so Lewis owns 60.7% of Spurs.

Spurs are valued by Forbes at $3.2B. Lewis' stake in Spurs is worth $1.94B. This represents 28% of his net worth. This share has decreased a good bit since the last time I ran these figures when it was well over 30%.

Still, you will not find another majority shareholders of a Top 6 club whose net worth is so largely tied up in their football club. I can't think of another owner I've run those numbers for (previous post on this topic gave results for all top 6 clubs and Villa I believe), and I don't recall one having more than 10% of their net worth tributary to their stake in the football club.

So, again, Lewis is very rich. Yes. But they still don't have access to the capital that our competitors do, nor the ability to absorb the same losses our competitors can. They can do more, absolutely, but its still a mischaracterization to attest that it's anything like equal footing. ENIC is also very illiquid, and their biggest asset, Tottenham Hotspur FC, is already heavily leveraged with stadium construction debt (at great interest rates - don't bring up any bollocks, the stadium is a revenue positive to the club even with the debt).
You may know better than me, but I run a business myself, so here's a thought. Spurs could issue a load of new shares to be bought by an investor(s), to raise cash. Let's say that amounts to £500m. Now that wouldn't devalue the 'worth' of Levy or Lewis, as their lesser % of shares would be counter-balanced by the greater whole value of the club i.e. there is now £500m more in the bank. Let's say it's a strategic move, to invest in the football squad, which could see an increase in the value of the players bought, plus, by having better players, we finish higher up the league (more merit prize money) and maybe get prize money from CL football?

If I have got that correct, then the only reasons not to do it are down to a lack of appetite for the football success and/or the risk that the players bought end up as crap the many others bought, and the net result is that Lewis/Levy's shares end up worth less i.e. wasted money on signings like N'Dombele (actually I could easily fill a few pages on wasted signings).

I just don't think they care enough about the football, than they do about tight control over a business.

Final point, just to keep things sensible. Financial Fair Play may affect how much we could actually spend on players, so you adjust the £500m down to an amount that you could fairly spend over 2-3 years.
 
You may know better than me, but I run a business myself, so here's a thought. Spurs could issue a load of new shares to be bought by an investor(s), to raise cash. Let's say that amounts to £500m. Now that wouldn't devalue the 'worth' of Levy or Lewis, as their lesser % of shares would be counter-balanced by the greater whole value of the club i.e. there is now £500m more in the bank. Let's say it's a strategic move, to invest in the football squad, which could see an increase in the value of the players bought, plus, by having better players, we finish higher up the league (more merit prize money) and maybe get prize money from CL football?

If I have got that correct, then the only reasons not to do it are down to a lack of appetite for the football success and/or the risk that the players bought end up as crap the many others bought, and the net result is that Lewis/Levy's shares end up worth less i.e. wasted money on signings like N'Dombele (actually I could easily fill a few pages on wasted signings).

I just don't think they care enough about the football, than they do about tight control over a business.

Final point, just to keep things sensible. Financial Fair Play may affect how much we could actually spend on players, so you adjust the £500m down to an amount that you could fairly spend over 2-3 years.
Spurs have been looking to sell a minority stake for some time.

Seems easier than it sounds - no one wants to invest 8-9 figures in a football club to have zero authority to make decisions. You can buy a club of your own for that, albeit a lesser one.

If you're meaning issuing shares for individual purchase, such as by supporters, I am very skeptical you could raise that kind of capital. Even at 50k, that's £10k/share - would never happen.

You'd be lucky to sell 50k at £100. As a straight cash infusion prospect for expenditure on depreciating assets (players), no serious investors would see it as a rational purchase. So you're limited to supporters willing to light some money on fire.

On top of that, I'm not entirely sure of the legality of such an arrangement. If ENIC were forced to make an offer to buy everyone's shares to take the club private once they reached a threshold of majority ownership, surely there's some ramifications for issuing new shares for public sale?
 
Spurs have been looking to sell a minority stake for some time.

Seems easier than it sounds - no one wants to invest 8-9 figures in a football club to have zero authority to make decisions. You can buy a club of your own for that, albeit a lesser one.

If you're meaning issuing shares for individual purchase, such as by supporters, I am very skeptical you could raise that kind of capital. Even at 50k, that's £10k/share - would never happen.

You'd be lucky to sell 50k at £100. As a straight cash infusion prospect for expenditure on depreciating assets (players), no serious investors would see it as a rational purchase. So you're limited to supporters willing to light some money on fire.

On top of that, I'm not entirely sure of the legality of such an arrangement. If ENIC were forced to make an offer to buy everyone's shares to take the club private once they reached a threshold of majority ownership, surely there's some ramifications for issuing new shares for public sale?
I thought it was too simple be true, thank you.

So how do we get out of this mess? It seems to take us less time to get into trouble than it does to get out of it, yet some clubs can work wonders in no time at all i.e. Nottingham Forest. Hmmm.
 
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I thought it was too simple be true, thank you.

So how do we get out of this mess? It seems to take us less time to get into trouble than it does to get out of it, yet some clubs can work wonders in no time at all i.e. Nottingham Forest. Hmmm.
We'll get back to, or close to, where we were just as few seasons ago easy enough.

Simple answer? It's exponentially harder to go from 4th to credible challenging for a title than it is to go from lower or mid table to the lower European places.

We screwed the pooch and blew our window with Kane. Then we really screwed up and appointed an amateur manager. Now we have to try and rebuild.
 
I thought it was too simple be true, thank you.

So how do we get out of this mess? It seems to take us less time to get into trouble than it does to get out of it, yet some clubs can work wonders in no time at all i.e. Nottingham Forest. Hmmm.

Well, Forest will likely finish 6th or 7th - and have spent 450m on players to do so - and without winning a trophy. They have a good core of young players but face the prospect of some of those using this season form as a platform to move to a bigger club.

Spurs ambitions are beyond this. We want to be challenging for titles and playing in the Champions League, so that does mean we cannot take Forest as a good example of how to develop the club.

We certainly aren't City. We cannot buy a squad full of established world class players. We are more akin to what Klopp did at Liverpool. Build a young squad and allow them to develop. Drop in a couple of world class experienced players to lift the quality - and be harder working than any other team in the league.
 
What a depressing read. So glad though that ENIC confirmed at the time that we could not stay at the old white hart lane as we would get left behind by other clubs…..

The new stadium will allow us to compete with the other top clubs.

For so called business people they have royally fudged our club
 
Question for those unhappy with that song being played at our stadium (even though it had nothing to do with football and the place was probably full of non Spurs fans) - when the Euros come round and Germany play France at the stadium, will you have a similar problem hearing the national anthems being played and the place bedecked in their national flags?
Oh wow! Just......WOW!

What an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

The gooner anthem booming around our stadium as the whole place is lit up in red .......being likened to the national anthems before an international match!!!!!

I'm still finding hard to rationalise I actually read this post on a Spurs forum :thumbdown:
 
Well, Forest will likely finish 6th or 7th - and have spent 450m on players to do so - and without winning a trophy. They have a good core of young players but face the prospect of some of those using this season form as a platform to move to a bigger club.

Spurs ambitions are beyond this. We want to be challenging for titles and playing in the Champions League, so that does mean we cannot take Forest as a good example of how to develop the club.

We certainly aren't City. We cannot buy a squad full of established world class players. We are more akin to what Klopp did at Liverpool. Build a young squad and allow them to develop. Drop in a couple of world class experienced players to lift the quality - and be harder working than any other team in the league.
Forest remaining games are Brentford (h), Palace (a), Leicester (h), West Ham (a), Chelsea (h). All very winnable... Brentford nothing to play for, Palace one eye on cup final, Leicester are just tragic, West Ham are shite and Chelsea have been meh all season apart from a little run during Nov/Dec. They have a game in hand on Chelsea who have some tough fixtures coming up... Liverpool, United, Newcastle and then Forest. Villa have Fulham (h), Bournemouth (a), us (h) and United (a) but are 3 points behind Forest having played a game more. I wager Forest will be playing Champions League next season.
 
You missed a period in there, for the record.

His Forbes net worth is $6.9B. He owns 70.12% of ENIC who own 86.58% of Spurs, so Lewis owns 60.7% of Spurs.

Spurs are valued by Forbes at $3.2B. Lewis' stake in Spurs is worth $1.94B. This represents 28% of his net worth. This share has decreased a good bit since the last time I ran these figures when it was well over 30%.

Still, you will not find another majority shareholders of a Top 6 club whose net worth is so largely tied up in their football club. I can't think of another owner I've run those numbers for (previous post on this topic gave results for all top 6 clubs and Villa I believe), and I don't recall one having more than 10% of their net worth tributary to their stake in the football club.

So, again, Lewis is very rich. Yes. But they still don't have access to the capital that our competitors do, nor the ability to absorb the same losses our competitors can. They can do more, absolutely, but its still a mischaracterization to attest that it's anything like equal footing. ENIC is also very illiquid, and their biggest asset, Tottenham Hotspur FC, is already heavily leveraged with stadium construction debt (at great interest rates - don't bring up any bollocks, the stadium is a revenue positive to the club even with the debt).
Sell a % stake to grow the business then and actually try and achieve something of note
 
Sell a % stake to grow the business then and actually try and achieve something of note

They won’t do that, let’s say they issue share for 10%. We get £400m from investors and increase wages and transfer and in 3-4 years get multiple top 4s, win an FA Cup and be in a title race and grow the overall value of the club by £500m as now we have a successful team to go with the successful infrastructure, obviously then it’s a net win.

However we could spend the money on shit players and overall ENIC will have then a net loss of value, they have diluted shares but only marginally grown the overall value. Players are a risk, might work to grow might not. Infrastructure isn’t.

We are property development company with a football club attached to it.
 
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