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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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ThePreacher said:
Oh, it does.

Name me one manager (including double and treble winners) who have managers that have "sacrificed" PL position for a Cup win.

Name me just one, who has forgone winning in the PL for a single Cup?
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Spurs Poch - 3 wins from final 12 league games when we reach Champions League Final.

Chelsea Di Matteo - 11/12 Champions league. 6th in the league.

Wigan - relegated, but won cup

Livepool (dalglish) - 11/12 - Went all in for domestic cups. Finished 8th. Won 4 of their final 20 league games.
 
Tomo said:
Fuck knows if any of that is true but the main thing is we need to fix the squad come what may, can’t wait for the Ange saga to finish.
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He's pretty close to someone at the club from what I understand and it's interesting that he is aware that some high up in the club have lost all faith.

If Paratici does indeed return, i just can't see him wanting Ange, and for sure i cannot believe that Venkatesham would entertain Ange being manager next season.
 
ThePreacher said:
He's pretty close to someone at the club from what I understand and it's interesting that he is aware that some high up in the club have lost all faith.

If Paratici does indeed return, i just can't see him wanting Ange, and for sure i cannot believe that Venkatesham would entertain Ange being manager next season.
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It is a tricky situation. If Ange goes, it's certainly possible that our best players may follow him out the door (Son, Porro, Romero) - and our rebuild goes back to square one.

Can Spurs attract an elite coach? and would an elite coach be interested in a predominantly young squad that requires developing? Gone are the days of prime Kane/Son who you can build a team around. We don't have any elite player that the team can be built around.

At the end of the day, the league performances were unacceptable without our key players on the pitch. When we got them back, we had already decided to bin off the league.

If the squad stays largely AS-IS - Ange should probably go. He cannot get a consistent tune out of the reserve players.

If we are improving the squad - Ange should stay, and we should get the players he needs.

I firmly believe, if we give Ange the players he will win bring further trophies to Spurs and win the league in his 4th season.
 
I think winning a big European cup transforms the club more than if we’d finished in fourth to achieve the same champions league qualification. There’s a big sign on the stadium now that says ‘Winners’. There will be pictures around the club and stadium of Bilbao. The spursy banter club evaporated. You have to give Ange a chance at working with the players with the new mentality, not having to convince them that they’re winners, because there’s irrefutable evidence of it. It’ll be like coaching a different team. You have to give him that chance to see what he can do with them next after this transformation.
 
Seeing the Ange debacle makes you realise just how badly Poch was treated despite having Spurs playing at the highest level imaginable and getting sacked off the back of a 4th place finish and CL final all because he needed some money spent for the first time in his Tottenham career.

It was a huge fuck up that the club still hasnt recovered from and cost us hundreds of millions to try to rectify in the process.
 
ThePreacher said:
He's pretty close to someone at the club from what I understand and it's interesting that he is aware that some high up in the club have lost all faith.

If Paratici does indeed return, i just can't see him wanting Ange, and for sure i cannot believe that Venkatesham would entertain Ange being manager next season.
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The someone:

Chirpy-Tottenham-Hotspur.jpg
 
ThePreacher said:
Oh, it does.

Name me one manager (including double and treble winners) who have managers that have "sacrificed" PL position for a Cup win.

Name me just one, who has forgone winning in the PL for a single Cup?
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Click to shrink...
It's absolutely revisionist to just say Ange soley 'sacrificed' PL. Contextually, once the injuries occurred (and thus mid table mediocrity ensued) , then there were decisions to be made in Dec/Jan on where to place energy and effort, whilst the injuries were a) still occurring, b) players still had to rehabilitate and c) lack of team continuity.

Even my 9yo understands this, and can make sense of 'how' an outcome can be a particular thing (17th place), but is nuanced and full of context, rather than being so binary about a manager.
 
Engorged Onion said:
It's absolutely revisionist to just say Ange soley 'sacrificed' PL. Contextually, once the injuries occurred (and thus mid table mediocrity ensued) , then there were decisions to be made in Dec/Jan on where to place energy and effort, whilst the injuries were a) still occurring, b) players still had to rehabilitate and c) lack of team continuity.

Even my 9yo understands this, and can make sense of 'how' an outcome can be a particular thing (17th place), but is nuanced and full of context, rather than being so binary about a manager.
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The revisionist yarns being spun by the Ange Innies that he was intentionally throwing the league games in January for a Europa final in May is just a silly lie, not even a good one. He was playing whomever was available until the semifinal round. He was losing with anyone who was available. The talk was always about players being rushed back from injury, not their being shelved for April and May. This is just excuse-making for the inexcusable league season.
 
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kcspurs said:
Exactly. The revisionist yarns being spun by the Ange Innies that he was intentionally throwing the league games in January for a Europa final in May is just a silly lie, not even a good one. He was playing whomever was available until the semifinal round. He was losing with anyone who was available. The talk was always about players being rushed back from injury, not their being shelved for April and May. This is just excuse-making for the inexcusable league season.
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I don't think that's what Mr Engorged of the Onion meant.
 
Look it really comes down to what are prepared to accept, doesn't it?

I mean if people are happy for us to be a cup team where the league becomes a secondary competition than maybe you're happy for Ange to continue.

And if the same people think that we're going to radically change for the better in the league, well I think they're in for a rude awakening.

Its quite clear Ange can't cut it in the league, he's tactically beaten by just about everyone and there's a real problem with injuries that aren't magically going to disappear.

He's not good enough, and he's trying to deflect from that fact constantly.

We should move on and reset whilst in a relatively strong position after winning the EL.

It's a cold decision but it's the right one. Doing what's best for the Club should always come first.
 
harry7 said:
We knocked Man City out of the EFL Cup (and thrashed them in the EPL).

We beat Liverpool in the first leg. May have been a different result in the 2nd leg if we had our best squad available.

If the injury crisis is all down to Ange - please explain Sessegnon, Lamela, Lo Celso, Ndombelly, Dier, Dele, Rose, Kane, Romero (he missed more matches in the 21/22 season under Conte).

Spurs have a long history of injuries to key players - and an inability to get them back to full fitness after injury. An injury crisis lost Mourinho his job; and arguably hurt our chances in the Champions League final.
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Just wondered why you back Ange on everything? Is it because he's Australian? Or do you fancy him ?
He may have fluked a cup, so did Ramos but, he ain't doing it in an elite league. Would you still back Ange had Tottenham been relegated? What excuse would you use?
As for Injuries Ange said his system causes muscle injuries. We must have had 10 hamstring injuries you know this so why back him?
 
Archie said:
Just wondered why you back Ange on everything? Is it because he's Australian? Or do you fancy him ?
He may have fluked a cup, so did Ramos but, he ain't doing it in an elite league. Would you still back Ange had Tottenham been relegated? What excuse would you use?
As for Injuries Ange said his system causes muscle injuries. We must have had 10 hamstring injuries you know this so why back him?
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I've been following Spurs for 45 years. Didn't start just because Ange joined.

I respect him because he started at the very very bottom and has worked his way up. That shows immerse character and the attributes required to be a success. No player that has ever worked with him has said a bad word about him. He hasn't throw his toys out the pram and blamed the owners, slagged off players, had a go at refs. He's got on with the job and taken ownership when things haven't gone well.

He has shown time and time again that he can take over a poor performing team and turn them into winners. He inherited Spurs with a poor and tired squad who had just lost arguably their best player ever. He turned them into European title winners in 2 seasons. Something Conte, Jose and Poch couldn't do with a far better squad.

He delivered EXACTLY what Spurs fans AND the owners wanted. A trophy and Champions League football. Albeit, via an alternative pathway.

I don't believe that relegation was ever a risk. Had our league position been close to that level, we would have simply would have fielded our strongest team and focused on the league.

As mentioned in the thread earlier - the injuries aren't just down to Ange. Romero missed almost an entire season under Conte. Lamela, Dele, Dier, Wanyama, Lo Celso, Nodombelly, Sessegnon. Our medical department has been terrible for quite some time. It is the medical team's job to prepare the team for the physical demands of the league and to work on recovery.

The Ball is now in Levy's hand. Ange has demonstrated that the squad is capable but needs to improve depth and quality if they want to compete across multiple competitions. If not - choose your battle. I fear if we bring in another coach - the only deliverable will be to get top 4 above all else.
 
Charlie F said:
Levy sacked Mourinho because the fans hated the football he played.
Levy is also a fan.
Mourinho understandbly dislikes Levy for this - so he went for the jugular with a trope .
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Levy sacked Mourinho because he told him the truth. The squad isn't good enough to win anything, and he's not prepared to only play for top 4. Had Jose won the cup, his contract would have extended for another year - so it would have cost a lot more money to sack him.

Conte then told him the same thing. And Harry Kane did a runner.

ANGE : Hold my beer boys, this is how it's done.
 
harry7 said:
Levy sacked Mourinho because he told him the truth. The squad isn't good enough to win anything, and he's not prepared to only play for top 4. Had Jose won the cup, his contract would have extended for another year - so it would have cost a lot more money to sack him.

Conte then told him the same thing. And Harry Kane did a runner.

ANGE : Hold my beer boys, this is how it's done.
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Once again this is a myth.
 
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