Manager Thomas Frank

[CJJ]

Oh, it's another Muppet, expecting us to beat Woolwich, Chelsea, and ManU was going to be a tough game too, given the circumstances of the squad and injuries, who are leagues in front of us...

Total fecking deluded fan base, and probably cried like a pathetic little baby on Sunday.

Here, let me laugh at you

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Summer 2025: "Ange finished 17th because of how shit our squad was. They're all terrible"
Autumn 2025: "It is embarrassing that Frank can't take points off the most in-form Woolwich side for a decade and the current Club World Cup winning Chelsea side, who both happen to be in the top 2"

 

[Art Vandelay]

??

Sarr has started 6 in 11 of our 12 PL games. He took a bit of a knock in the international break.
Bergvall has started 5 out of 9 PL games and is out with concussion

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I don't think Bergvall has been frozen out. He started against Chelsea but only lasted 5 minutes before he got concussed.

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I meant at CM in preference of his Bentancur and Palhinha pairing.
Without Kulu and Madders someone will get games in the 10 spot or LW in the meantime.

 

[Percy Clay]

Maddison, Kulusevski, Solanke unavailable and unlikely to return at their previous level.

Kulusevski (pre injury) is about the same level as Kudus. Simons has looked overmatched and is miles from Maddison. Muani has been mostly injured with a few good moments.

Bentancur has declined significantly. Son replaced by Odobert. Richarlison is probably worse athletically.

Bergvall is better. Maybe VdV is a bit more consistent. Where are all these “better” young players?

Sorry I don’t agree the squad (players that have actually played this season) is better than 2 seasons ago when we finished 5th because of a 8-2-0 start and without Europe.

Warrior mentality in the final? It was a dull 1-0 against a terrible team. Someone had to win and that doesn’t automatically make them warriors. That team won a title by circumstance, not because they had a different mentality than previous teams.

Stronger squads
Top 4 of Lpool, Woolwich, City, Chelsea is clear despite pools current crisis.

arguably stronger squads
Newcastle
Villa

Comparable squads
Brighton - finished 23 points ahead of us
Bournemouth - finished 18 points ahead of us
United - we are slightly better than. You don’t finish 20 points behind another team you are better than.

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I specifically said I was comparing injury free squads. There was a horrendous injury list last season too.

It is pure conjecture that Maddison, Kulu, and Solanke will be diminished on their return. You compared Kudus to Kulu and Simons to Maddison. We have all four in the squad, when last year we had two. Ergo, the current squad is stronger in those positions.

it is a matter of opinion about Betancour. I disagree. Frank isn’t playing the young players so we don’t know whether they are better than last year. That was partly my point.

I don’t think VDV is better. He is just not injured as much.

The fact that the team had a good start two seasons ago and had no European football is immaterial to whether or not that squad was as strong, or not as strong, as the current squad. That is entirely a question of personnel.

I agree about the top four squads.

I disagree about the others you mentioned with the possible exception of Newcastle.

You can, absolutely finish 20 points behind a team with an inferior squad. Factors can include, but would not be limited to, injuries, a shit manager, loss of form, suspensions, and binning off the league to concentrate on the Europa League (I know, I don’t really buy that one either)

Good chat.

 

[Pól]

ok

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[Pól]

Their xga was 13th in his first full season:

https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/2019-2020/2019-2020-Premier-League-Stats

But to be fair to you it shot all the way up to 5th in his 2nd so I'll give you that.

https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/2020-2021/2020-2021-Premier-League-Stats

But isn't this the point though, you're using Arteta as the example to Frank, if you're comparing what he did after Xmas than I don't understand the comparison to Frank now as we're still in November?



You've given me data from his 3rd and 4th season when I've already pointed out his first 2 season where he finished 8th he struggled?

Your original point was Arteta winning the FA cup allowed him patience which is patently not true, their fans weren't having him for 2/3 years - If Frank managed to beat PSG on pens and was still churning up this garbage you and this fanbase still wouldn't be convinced so the FA Cup win is irrelevant.



I agree with a lot of what you say about Frank but this isn't about him, ultimately my point is that using Arteta as the example is pointless because the fact was that he had the pandemic and no crowds which allowed him to make his mistakes and settle in the job.

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[Pól]

Fine, what underlying numbers/data and style of play were you seeing in Arteta's early years to know that he's going to be a hit at Woolwich

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[Harry Vaginola]

Do people not see the link between how he talks and how we play on the pitch?

That's what worries me in terms of us seeing more positive football...youd think he'd be talking more positively.

We',ll see in the next few weeks but I'm not overly optimistic much will change.

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i think the players have downed tools for better managers than frank. i honestly don't know what the answer is. they do have too much power and he's going to have to figure out how to motivate them somehow. i think better tactics they believe in more is good start tho.

 

[Jenderbazzfass]

happy with 1 point from 3 games? Christ!

This has to be rock bottom. Please tell me this is rock bottom?

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Nothing is going to change until we change the players that Levy put here.

We can quibble about details but there's not a lot Frank can do with a squad that's so bad it only has 3 touches in the other team's box for 90 minutes.

You can't turn Tel and Odobert and Richarlison into a credible side. I cannot ask my dog to cook me dinner. He just cannot do it. You cannot build me a battleship out of mud. You can't bake with no flour.

It doesn't matter how genius you are, you can't turn shit into anything but shit

 

[SH1M1]

Burnley
City
West Ham
Everton

4 games. 4 wins. 12 for. 0 against.
Throw in the 4-0 win Vs Copenhagen and there's 5 comfortable wins, to nil there.

Yes, Bournemouth, Chelsea and Arse were shite. Absolutely shite. Wolves barely better at all.
That doesn't take away from other results/performances.

We actually played well 2nd half vs United and for the last half hour, were the better team.
After going 2 down to Bodo we turned it around and would have won with a few more minutes added on.
We drew to Brighton from 2 down and were the better team throughout. 2 fluke goals put us behind.

Let's not go crazy and pile on the team. After the number of surrender monkey games we lost last season with no fight, nothing, there's bound to be some downs this season too. You don't just suddenly remove that level of loser mentality in a few months.

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Everton & City fantastic
Burnley, West Ham & Copenhagen good (3 very poor sides granted)

The comebacks you mention, all 3 were great to see.
(Those ‘fluke goals’ could be applied to ours too, miss placed shot assist from Kudus & an own goal)

My concern however is, why do we have to be reactive, rather than pro active ?
Frank seems all too willingly to put the handbrakes on, before deciding to change things, when there’s nothing to lose.

For his own sake, the home form has to improve drastically, otherwise the noises will grow louder.
Sure the performances may remain shite, but if he doesn’t pick up some wins, there’s no sympathy.

Those 2 derby performances have done him no favours whatsoever.
It’s up to him now, to put a run of performances & more importantly, results together.

 

[Matt1882]

Yeah, happy to get a point from those three games (should have had 3 though).

Because it's an insanely tough run of games, for us, and the state our squad is in.

I didn't say I was happy with the performances.

You need to stop making stuff up in your head, and arguing points that were never made.

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Think you quoted the wrong post there as your response has nothing to do with mine.

 

[Kane's left]

i think the players have downed tools for better managers than frank. i honestly don't know what the answer is. they do have too much power and he's going to have to figure out how to motivate them somehow. i think better tactics they believe in more is good start tho.

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I don't think they've downed tools, especially not yet. I think Frank is very likeable. It's just our players seem to lack genuine team spirit and therefore don't really bond well as a team. Too much money, self interest and not enough character and dedication to building the team spirit.

 

[Matt1882]

Everton & City fantastic
Burnley, West Ham & Copenhagen good (3 very poor sides granted)

The comebacks you mention, all 3 were great to see.
(Those ‘fluke goals’ could be applied to ours too, miss placed shot assist from Kudus & an own goal)

My concern however is, why do we have to be reactive, rather than pro active ?
Frank seems all too willingly to put the handbrakes on, before deciding to change things, when there’s nothing to lose.

For his own sake, the home form has to improve drastically, otherwise the noises will grow louder.
Sure the performances may remain shite, but if he doesn’t pick up some wins, there’s no sympathy.

Those 2 derby performances have done him no favours whatsoever, it’s up to him now to put a run of performances & more importantly, results together.

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I think we have been far too reactive in the games we have played badly in. I think Bodo was an anomaly because the pitch played a part. We probably got too comfortable after playing them at a different time of year before. They seemed to have better control of the ball and grip all match recently.
The others though, IMO, we had a plan and we executed it. I am seeing plans in the games we're not playing well in, too. But they're not good plans. All we can hope for now is that Frank sees it too and adapts.
We don't want another manager too stubborn to adapt.

 

[_mehstg]

Back 5 in my opinion is top 3-4

The rest. Barely top ten at all. You’ll find better midfielders and forwards littered through the likes of Brighton, Everton, Villa, Bournemouth, Utd

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Maybe so but if we bought Danny Welbeck you'd be up in arms!!!

 

[Shadydan]

I don't think they've downed tools, especially not yet. I think Frank is very likeable. It's just our players seem to lack genuine team spirit and therefore don't really bond well as a team. Too much money, self interest and not enough character and dedication to building the team spirit.

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Yeah downed tools is a bit strong, I think they are bored with the tactics and instructions though.

I think you've just got a set of players who went from a coach who let them get away with some dire performances last season albeit pure attacking who they seemingly liked and ended up winning to...Frank who isn't anywhere near as inspiring as Ange is and plays dull, uninspiring football

Whether that's a player issue or a manager issue it remains to be seen but very rarely the manager comes out on top in situations like these unless he starts bending to the players.

 

[_mehstg]

Woolwich I can make sense of. They've appointed a decent coach. Given him time and invested. They also pay decent wages.

What amazes me more is how quickly Chelsea have bounced back. Wtf can't that happen to us. Just once. I guess IMO:

- our recruitment has been generally not good enough. The buy youngsters only strategy was a disaster
- we're not paying enough in wages

What else? Something about culture and the overly nice pampered training ground lifestyle?

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We buy youngsters for big money but don't blood them or give them meaningless minutes out of position. Have the balls to say, right. We are starting with Gray, Sarr and Bergvall... those three have been bought with the future in mind... they aren't kids anymore... Gray 19 (20 in March), Sarr 23, Bergvall 19 (20 in Feb) or Simons 22... these guys need to play together for 10-12 games... I think it could be an amazing three... energy, running power, a bit of guile in there from Bergvall or Simons. But the ultra cautious plodding of Bentancur and Palhinha is holding us back!! It might not work by doing something different FRANK because Plan A, B, C, D ain't working... none of them are... you're serving up a shit sandwich week after week and we ain't hungry anymore!!!

 

[_mehstg]

I don't think they've downed tools, especially not yet. I think Frank is very likeable. It's just our players seem to lack genuine team spirit and therefore don't really bond well as a team. Too much money, self interest and not enough character and dedication to building the team spirit.

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Utter garbage... massive spirit last season that took us to our first trophy in 20 odd years... but you just re-write history and call it a fluke or a second rate trophy!!!

 

[Deuterz]

Utter garbage... massive spirit last season that took us to our first trophy in 20 odd years... but you just re-write history and call it a fluke or a second rate trophy!!!

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Massive spirit

Brother is talking about beating az, Frankfurt, Bodo and the worst united team in generations.

Bro thinks a competition which is literally Europe’s 2nd tier cup competition isn’t second rate.

Bro is delusional.

 

[WillWilliams]

It doesn't matter how genius you are, you can't turn shit into anything but shit

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Pretty sure the buses in Bristol are fuelled with shit that isn’t shit!!

Bloody scientist geniuses!!!

 

[Harry Vaginola]

i can't stand lego head and am loathe to give him any credit for his cringe act but on some level it works. i think the fact that he's a former high level player helps but he really does crawl up the ass of his players and doesn't even let them breathe if they're not performing or following instructions. i don't think frank has that in him and i think our players need that kind of pressure on them.

 

[Kane's left]

Utter garbage... massive spirit last season that took us to our first trophy in 20 odd years... but you just re-write history and call it a fluke or a second rate trophy!!!

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Didn't say anything related to that specifically ya BITCH. Let the pre game cunts off commence....

Ange was very good at giving inspiring team talks I'd imagine, but the players need to be good at inspiring and firing themselves up with meaning and passion to play for the shirt, without having a manager needing to give them a reason to!