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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
Don Pedro said:
Vinai won't sack Frank before the Woolwich game. He'll want to make sure Woolwich win that game and keeping Frank is his best chance.

Vinai's biggest achievement is hiring arteta for Woolwich and sticking with him during his bad spell. That's the first thing on his CV. He needs Arteta to win the league for Woolwich. That'll boost his reputation more and make sure he lands another CEO job somewhere else on crazy wages. He knows hes already failed at spurs and on borrowed time himself. Vinai probably watches every Woolwich game with his Woolwich jersey on. He also likely tipped Woolwich off about the Eze and Hincaipe deals being in the final stages with all the terms, so they could hijack us.

We're in the worst hands you can imagine right now. You thought Levy was bad? Wait until you see what came after him. We removed the only Spurs fans in the board and have a gooner fan running the show now.
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Levy had to go, everything we see now is on him.

He hired Frank
He created this Frankenstein collection of mediocre players.

He left the left side of squad completely broken. Hand opportunities to sign a LW in summer... And utterly failed.

Paid for Tel, despite Tel not showing anything worth the price tag or worth keeping.

No LCB to cover VdV.

7/8 RCB's...

Kept injury prone Richi et al...

The list goes on.
 
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GinolasLeftFoot said:
Levy had to go, everything we see now is on him.

He hired Frank
He created this Frankenstein collection of mediocre players.

He leftside of squad, completely broken.

Paid for Tel, despite Tel not showing anything worth the price tag.

No LCB to cover VdV.

7/8 RCB's...

Kept injury prone Richi...

The list goes on.
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After the stadium build, Levy's time became more desperate for the trophy. Don't back Poch but hire coaches with a history of winning trophies in Mourinho, Conte and Ange? Little thought given to their style or their actual coaching skills but just to getting that albatross away. If Levy was responsible for the current squad, it was through trusting the delegation to Lange et al, rather than staying fully involved.

I remember Sugar saying that he just did what the 'football people' told him and we ended up with Christian Gross.
 
CJJ said:
Years ago now I was with my boss being driven into ipswich for a work meeting. He announced that when we got to the B&B, he'd take us all out for a curry. He seemed very enthusiastic about it, like I should be really excited - but I've never been a curry lover - I just don't like liquid-heavy foods (not a big soup fan or pasta type things tbh).

I was panicking about the whole thing (looking awkward/stupid), but when we got there I decided to try the 'dry' varieties - so went with more of a tandoori tikka chicken type thing. As it happens, it worked out for me and I still like it now so I don't have to worry about eating at or ordering from an indian place. If I didn't like the tandoori tikka, it wouldn't have been monumentally stupid for me to conclude I should have ordered a curry instead.

Long story short - I don't think there's any issue with trying something different so long as you're not reverting to something that has already failed, or clinging onto failure for too long hoping for it to lead somewhere it never will. The latter is where we're heading, but it wouldn't justify the former.

It seem like a lot of people in football were curious as to what Frank would do at a big club. Everything we've seen is perhaps the opposite of what many thought. It is what it is. It may have been a wild over-correction, but I think we have hopefully got a better idea of what would work for us. We'll probably fuck it up again, though.
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And the previous 20 + odd years of flip flopping between the dull boring Frank, Nuno, and Mourinho and attacking managers like Jol, Poch... Wasn't experience enough.

How switches and over compensations do you have to make before you finally learn?

And the one thing that has never been tried,vwas to have club philosophy the shared at all levels.

Instead, all what got was wild swing and botch unplanned Frankenstein squad, plagued with injuries, mediocrity, and dead would, with almost no natural balance.
 
Sidford said:
Latest "ITK" on SC

"Ok might not get the season......

"Needs to get something against Newcastle." "
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Aphex said:
Trix on SC has said he's been told Frank might not get the season after all, and he needs to get something against Newcastle.

I find it truly remarkable how the board and Vinai have let this season play out.

It was clear 4 months ago that Frank was a disaster. They have had ample opportunity to sack him, yet haven't. Even now when we are in a relegation battle, they are still giving him one more game.

The reality is Frank should be gone regardless but we have to win on Tuesday, a draw at home to Newcastle shouldn't be enough for him to keep his job. A loss is unthinkable.

Yes, other managerial candidates don't want to come in mid season, fine. Then install a caretaker. Give someone a job, pay then well and say prove yourself into the summer, you might get the job if you do well.

What you don't do is sit on your hands and let the club freefall into the championship.

They are a disgrace.

Honestly for me, Vinai and Lange should be gone in the summer. The way Vinai has handled this season has been a disgrace. Passive weak pathetic excuse of a CEO.
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If, and it's a big if because those ITKs always seem to be cold-reading shit peddlers, Frank is sacked now then it must surely be because the balance between squad sentiment behind the scenes and actual real risk of relegation has skewed to make keeping him in place too high a risk. As you touched on Aphex backing Frank was a Lange/Vinai call, so they'll be trying not to write their own P45s in the process.

It's also compounded by the fact United have had such a stark turnaround in form by ditching Amorim.

I do feel sorry for whichever hypothetic interim gets it though: the injuries are still there, Romero is still missing for the next four games, and the rest of February is still a brutal set of fixtures. I also get the feeling that Frank isn't as hated by the squad as Amorim was by United's, so again not sure we'd be getting a quick fix in the form of new-manager-bounce.

Aside from making 99% of the fanbase feel good for about ten mins, sacking Frank would also give us the opportunity to shamelessly court whoever the full-time replacement would be in summer (perhaps stealing a march on other clubs looking to do the same). Nothing would stop us doing so right now, but I'd imagine we'd at least be trying to keep it quiet while Frank is still here.
 
If Howe can be in trouble, which I think is somewhat nonsensical, having twice qualified for the Champions League, and in doing so having won the League Cup, then our manager should be onto his next job.

I don't get how someone can be given so long, and am sick to death of it all. It's depressing and drains the energy.

I hope we stay up, obviously. I also think we will, but if it's going against us, Tuesday may be pivotal, but unless we get the next managerial appointment right, the abyss beckons.

But we are yet to have a good patch, and we will.
 
ChrissyWaddleShares said:
After the stadium build, Levy's time became more desperate for the trophy. Don't back Poch but hire coaches with a history of winning trophies in Mourinho, Conte and Ange? Little thought given to their style or their actual coaching skills but just to getting that albatross away. If Levy was responsible for the current squad, it was through trusting the delegation to Lange et al, rather than staying fully involved.

I remember Sugar saying that he just did what the 'football people' told him and we ended up with Christian Gross.
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But Levy didn't do that...

It was all about his ego. Negotiations were about him winning, rather getting the players that we actually needed.

In all his time, we never had real squad depth, the drop off in quality was insane.

How many years did Kane go with no real cover of quality.

And what's the point of getting Conti, if your not prepared to get the players he wants... But instead, leaving him with Fecking Dier as a CB.

It's all on Levy.
 
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Aphex said:
Trix on SC has said he's been told Frank might not get the season after all, and he needs to get something against Newcastle.

I find it truly remarkable how the board and Vinai have let this season play out.

It was clear 4 months ago that Frank was a disaster. They have had ample opportunity to sack him, yet haven't. Even now when we are in a relegation battle, they are still giving him one more game.

The reality is Frank should be gone regardless but we have to win on Tuesday, a draw at home to Newcastle shouldn't be enough for him to keep his job. A loss is unthinkable.

Yes, other managerial candidates don't want to come in mid season, fine. Then install a caretaker. Give someone a job, pay then well and say prove yourself into the summer, you might get the job if you do well.

What you don't do is sit on your hands and let the club freefall into the championship.

They are a disgrace.

Honestly for me, Vinai and Lange should be gone in the summer. The way Vinai has handled this season has been a disgrace. Passive weak pathetic excuse of a CEO.
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I should hope this is nonsense like almost all of their ITK.

Not because I want Frank to remain, but because the decision shouldn't hinge on one result.

A win shouldn't change anything if they've finally reached the same point everyone else has been at for weeks/months and have had enough of him.

Lange had better not be far behind if and when the axe does fall.
 
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Thin Lilywhite Duke said:
If, and it's a big if because those ITKs always seem to be cold-reading shit peddlers, Frank is sacked now then it must surely be because the balance between squad sentiment behind the scenes and actual real risk of relegation has skewed to make keeping him in place too high a risk. As you touched on Aphex backing Frank was a Lange/Vinai call, so they'll be trying not to write their own P45s in the process.

It's also compounded by the fact United have had such a stark turnaround in form by ditching Amorim.

I do feel sorry for whichever hypothetic interim gets it though: the injuries are still there, Romero is still missing for the next four games, and the rest of February is still a brutal set of fixtures. I also get the feeling that Frank isn't as hated by the squad as Amorim was by United's, so again not sure we'd be getting a quick fix in the form of new-manager-bounce.

Aside from making 99% of the fanbase feel good for about ten mins, sacking Frank would also give us the opportunity to shamelessly court whoever the full-time replacement would be in summer (perhaps stealing a march on other clubs looking to do the same). Nothing would stop us doing so right now, but I'd imagine we'd at least be trying to keep it quiet while Frank is still here.
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We do have injuries but what I don't understand from Vinai and the board is, that in football you can pick up points just from vibes.

Arguably it's what United are going through right now. Is Carrick a great coach? More than likely no he isn't. He's just changed some basic things and got results.

And we are in such a critical position, I don't understand the thought process where the board are deciding to stick with Frank who is losing every game, and taking us into relegation, over making a change, getting some vibes back and winning some games to ensure we are in the PL next season.

And every game they leave it, the less chance we have of making safety.

For me, not sacking him after that West Ham game might be seen as the reason we get relegated. Probably the most consequential in our history.

We see it in football all the time, a new manager bounce is all we need right now, to make it to the summer. The not doing anything and leaving Frank in charge, who can't pick up any points, as being the preferred option, is madness to me. I just don't get it.

Are the board really saying there is nobody in football who will come in and win a few games between now and May for a few million quid?
 
GinolasLeftFoot said:
But Levy didn't do that...

It was all about his ego. Negotiations were about him winning, rather getting the the players that we actually needed.

In all his time, we never had real squad depth, the drop off in quality was insane.

How many years did Kane go with no real cover of quality.

And what's the point of getting Conti, if your not prepared to get the players he wants... But instead, leaving him with Fecking Dier as a CB.

It's all on Levy.
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Sort of - 100% accept that for earlier seasons but the introduction of a hierarchy with Lange / Vinai etc. is when he began to trust the football people. Not buying for Poch - yep, on Levy; loans only for Harry - yep, on Levy. Bringing some players in for Conte but not others - that's where he begins to trust Paratici; Mourinho was employed on the promise of being able to win with the available squad (although Bale was clearly a Levy-fan-boy loan).

The current squad is signed-off by Levy but scouted and promoted by 'football' people. (And the January fiasco is definitely nothing to do with him - he's gone now and left all the money to spend?).

EDIT: this should be the way that big teams operate now - football has changed a lot since 2001 - we just seem to be especially bad at it.
 
ChrissyWaddleShares said:
Sort of - 100% accept that for earlier seasons but the introduction of a hierarchy with Lange / Vinai etc. is when he began to trust the football people. Not buying for Poch - yep, on Levy; loans only for Harry - yep, on Levy. Bringing some players in for Conte but not others - that's where he begins to trust Paratici; Mourinho was employed on the promise of being able to win with the available squad (although Bale was clearly a Levy-fan-boy loan).

The current squad is signed-off by Levy but scouted and promoted by 'football' people. (And the January fiasco is definitely nothing to do with him - he's gone now and left all the money to spend?).
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And who hired these inadequate footballing people?

Levy.

Anyone who did know a thing about the footballing side to a standard we required, all left, because Levy would listen to the likes7 of Donna, or just surrendered to his ego.
 
GinolasLeftFoot said:
And the previous 20 + odd years of flip flopping between the dull boring Frank, Nuno, and Mourinho and attacking managers like Jol, Poch... Wasn't experience enough.

How switches and over compensations do you have to make before you finally learn?

And the one thing that has never been tried,vwas to have club philosophy the shared at all levels.

Instead, all what got was wild swing and botch unplanned Frankenstein squad, plagued with injuries, mediocrity, and dead would, with almost no natural balance.
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Jol got us in the top 6
Ramos won us a trophy
Redknapp got us CL football
AVB made our results more consistent (IMO)
Poch built a team to push towards the top 3.

The Conte and Mourinho appointments were mistakenly under the belief that we could squeeze something bigger with a manager experienced in winning the PL within 2 seasons, and I suspect Kane pushed for that. Nuno was some sort of weird Paratici experiment that Levy solved very quickly.

I think we did quite well with this until the Mourinho appointment, but then COVID/new stadium/empty stadium and the fact that he's a bit of a washed up psycho kind of really blurs the lines of whether it was the wrong fit or the wrong time.

The only real damage was done post Conte where we've suddenly become a bottom 6 team. What we should definitely try and do is undo that
 
I know the mood is low after Old Trafford, but honestly, I’ve never been more confident. If you actually look at the first 30 minutes before the Romeo red card, Thomas had us playing some of the best away football we’ve seen in years. We were matching a Man United team in full flow, and it was only individual madness that cost us.
Newcastle are coming to our place on Tuesday, and I’m telling you now: Thomas is going to pull off a tactical masterclass. People are moaning about the "defensive crisis" with Romeo suspended and Udogie likely out, but this is exactly where a world-class master tactician like Thomas excels. He’s already proven he can out-think the best in the Champions League, and Eddie Howe simply doesn't have the tactical flexibility to cope with the system Thomas is building here.
Even with the injuries to Maddison, Porro, and the rest, the structure is there. We saw signs of life in that second half against City, and with the home crowd behind the project, I’m predicting a convincing victory. We are going to blow them away and start that charge up the table towards the top four spot.
Stop the panic. We have a genius in the dugout who has us competing on the highest highest levels in Europe. Newcastle won’t know what hit them.
COYS.
 
CJJ said:
Nuno was some sort of weird Paratici experiment that Levy solved very quickly.
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Is this satire?

Levy was too tight to pay Conte's staff before Nuno got the gig.

Levy then had to go cap in hand, back to Conte, when he sacked Nuno, after the home crowd sang; "Daniel Levy get out of our club", after Man United gave us a coating.

Levy caused the problem for himself and then had to pay off Nuno and pay all Conte's staff; after we had lost games badly we would have previously been competative in.

Levy solved nothing.
 
GinolasLeftFoot said:
Really? I would have thought some akin to Poch, attacking football...

Ange, was just gung ho, and whilst the players might have liked it, they couldn't string more than two passes together.

And he was easily found out...
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What do you think that “a better version of Ange” means?

I take it to mean; similar attacking principles, similar bravado/belief in us as an institution, but executes it better whilst.

There’s a number of guys who fit that criteria. Frank, regrettably, was about as far away from this as one could hope.
 
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