Ok mr Straw-man, who has said this and where?
And lols it's almost as if people will accept winning our first fekin trophy in 17 years to think finishing 17th is anywhere near acceptable.
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Manager Ange Postecoglou
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Ok mr Straw-man, who has said this and where?
And lols it's almost as if people will accept winning our first fekin trophy in 17 years to think finishing 17th is anywhere near acceptable.
Its interesting he specifies the Postecoglou team with Porro, VdV, Udogie and Romero.
Then why are you here man!
I'm pretty sure no one has said this. Even Ange's most ardent supporters would agree that our league position was dreadful, allowing just for the injuries.
However there was another reason for our poor form in the league, the fact we also went deep into two cup competitions.
And even then it clearly wasn't acceptable by the board, because they sacked him.
What's your problem with this? I've made it clear that I believe Postecoglou's injury crisis was worse than Frank's, but for the sake of argument I'm willing to concede they were similar. It's a fairly standard rhetorical device.
And if we do agree they are similar, when we look at the records of the two teams over the respective seasons (which
Auscock
has helpfully provided upthread), we can see that Ange's second season, significantly outperforms this one:
Which, like every point in here, has to be reiterated a million times that it was complete bollocks
Between the 1st round of the knockout stages (6 March) until the end of the season we won one out of 11 games.
So you're telling me "it was clear to him" that we wouldn't get relegated with 33 points from here?
The guy who didn't understand why some fans would rather lose a game to City than let Woolwich win the title. Who couldn't contemplate not wanting to win every league game.
The man who "got what it means to be tottenham" said that, and is forgiven for one win in 11 league games - pretty much all of which were with the same strength of side we've had this calendar year.
Certifiable copium
Oh, it's you again.
You're doing exactly what my argument is about.
Perfect example of your blinkered view ''Maddison also missed 11 matches whilst his replacement was Bergvall''.
So there was a adequate replacement, Bergvall was awarded Supporters Player of The Season which includes the time period of matches when Maddison was available. Not only that but Frank had Maddison and Bergvall injured.
You just keep doing it, keep proving my point, you're absolutely bias.
There was a time in Frank's tenure where there were only 11 first team players available and Romero said he was playing when he was suffering from an illness.
We can pick out instances and bat them back and forth like beach tennis, the fact is Frank had lots of injuries to key players, and RKM was about as useful for Frank as Werner was for Postecoglou.
I didn't enjoy Frank's tenure, I didn't enjoy Postecoglou's second season, Postecoglou was a better manager of the two, yes both managers had different injury issues, I find it hypocritical to cite injuries as an excuse for one and not the other.
But, you do you.
Which, like every point in here, has to be reiterated a million times that it was complete bollocks
Between the 1st round of the knockout stages (6 March) until the end of the season we won one out of 11 games.
So you're telling me "it was clear to him" that we wouldn't get relegated with 33 points from here?
The guy who didn't understand why some fans would rather lose a game to City than let Woolwich win the title. Who couldn't contemplate not wanting to win every league game.
The man who "got what it means to be tottenham" said that, and is forgiven for one win in 11 league games - pretty much all of which were with the same strength of side we've had this calendar year.
Certifiable copium
Do you understand context and nuance?
No manager-in any code-would throw a game deliberately just because the fans want it so. Never, ever, would that happen.
Do you understand managing the player roster and player minutes to better prepare for the Europa over the league isn't saying "Yeah boys go out and lose this league game?"
...whereas Postecoglou was a total mess. Flailing around tactically, when he eventually accepted that his beloved 'Angeball' had been see for the Emperor's Clothes that it actually was, training injuries into players, spending entire games looking at his bloody feet - then looking up, once in a blue moon, to abuse the fans.
To use your phrase...
Terrible manager tactically and terrible motivator.
So if we kept Frank and he bodged a CL final, would it make all of the league form justified? Would he be a genius who would be lauded as a tactical mastermind, despite the very obvious evidence.
This is akin to someone being a complete bum through their 30s, then winning the lottery at 41 and saying it was all part of the plan
You might not like his tactics, but your are 100% bonafide wrong on the second point.
His player motivation skills are off the charts and absolutely elite.
It was clear to everybody we weren't going to go down.Which, like every point in here, has to be reiterated a million times that it was complete bollocks
Between the 1st round of the knockout stages (6 March) until the end of the season we won one out of 11 games.
So you're telling me "it was clear to him" that we wouldn't get relegated with 33 points from here?
The guy who didn't understand why some fans would rather lose a game to City than let Woolwich win the title. Who couldn't contemplate not wanting to win every league game.
The man who "got what it means to be tottenham" said that, and is forgiven for one win in 11 league games - pretty much all of which were with the same strength of side we've had this calendar year.
Certifiable copium
Yes, perhaps it was technically mathematically possible for Spurs to be relegated, but it would have required 4 or 5 of the clubs below us to go on a championship winning run of form, and us not winning another point all season.
It simply wasn't going to happen.
...but my second point was about his training regime and nothing to do with those little motivational speeches he could make. I didn't even mention player motivation - although I must say that all I saw in his second season was player confusion.
You seem to be a fucking gooner.
I have already I agreed with the Board that it could not overlook the league finish and he deserved to be sacked.
Appointing Frank however was a terrible mistake. Complete polar opposite to what the players needed.
I also believe it was the Champions League run that delayed his sacking, that is until relegation became a reality and he lost the players.
Bwahahahaa..gooner. WTF?
What do you know about his training regime?
Those "little motivational speeches" are what motivate players like VdV to make legendary clearances that win European trophies. The players loved him.
If not the players who the fuck do you expect the manager to motivate? YOU?
i'm not sure we're having the same conversation.Then why are you here man!
I'm pretty sure no one has said this. Even Ange's most ardent supporters would agree that our league position was dreadful, allowing just for the injuries.
However there was another reason for our poor form in the league, the fact we also went deep into two cup competitions.
And even then it clearly wasn't acceptable by the board, because they sacked him.
What's your problem with this? I've made it clear that I believe Postecoglou's injury crisis was worse than Frank's, but for the sake of argument I'm willing to concede they were similar. It's a fairly standard rhetorical device.
And if we do agree they are similar, when we look at the records of the two teams over the respective seasons (which
I'm not posting to state how good a manager Frank or Postecoglou are compared to one another, if asked I would say Postecoglou was a bit better but not much with reference to his second season, his first season was much better than Frank.
So posting stats comparing them isn't achieving anything with my conversation, I'm not arguing Postecoglou's stats were worse than Franks. I don't know why you feel the need to tell me this?
I've just made a very simple and harmless point about the amount of injuries in both manager's tenures, that there seems to be more reluctance to offer Frank the same excuse. In fact I'm having to drag it out of some of you because that's Postecoglou's permitted excuse, oh you can give Frank some injury wriggle room but no way will it ever be as bad as Postecoglou's injuries. I'm starting to think that cognitive dissonance is at play here.
And as I already stated if you start discussing the injuries during Frank's tenure with ''even if we accept'' yada yada.... is begrudging and makes your point of view look warped.
Let's say for a second that is true
How does it in any way shape or form not make the guy a terrible manager?
He clearly still played to win, and did not.
We still finished 17th.
There were no Louis-van-Gaal-style teams chock full of debuts from academy players, like a Fergie style "i don't care about this result"
Like it or not, excuses or otherwise, the manager who started this season inherited a team that had won only 4 league games since christmas 2024, and had finished as low as you can finish without dropping down a league.
But the injuries are not the only factor for his demise and not even the main factor. We've already listed the additional players Frank had, a full pre-season, and even with them fit the football was garbage. I don't think with fully fit squad the football would be more attacking, more courageous because he literally shit canned the players in public. He had no faith in them and he set the team to play that way, injuries or not.
This is the very definition of using any sort of piece of desperate confirmation bias just to argue such nonsense..
Bergvall doesn't even play in the same fucking position as Maddison, let alone trying to make out like he's some uber-bonefide wonderkid like Pedri, guy was literally 18 playing in his first season in the Premier League and you're trying to compare him to what Ange had last season to Xavi who Frank had this season, an actual no10 with significant caps for his NT, what?
That isn't bias, that is absolute facts.
You mean from MW 21 when our injury crisis really hit, that was 5 matches from when he got sacked on MW 26, so he had around a month when he was really suffering, he had 4 months prior to that without the attacking trio however we already said that he had adequate replacements. Last season our injury crisis hit from around December to April including Ange having Romero, VdV, Vic, Maddison, Solanke out for long periods during that time.
If Frank can't get the most out of a player who had a 1 in 2 record for Juve then that's on Frank and it's not surprising our attack struggled seeing as he was posting up crap numbers like the 0.6xg against Chelsea and Woolwich and playing the least amount of through passes in the league as a team. Tudor managed to get more out of RKM for God's sake.
Who has actually done this mr Straw man, or are you going to ignore me again?
You said
"If it looked like we could get relegated than its reasonable to assume that a different approach would have been taken and with possibly different outcomes in the league"
The matter of absolute fact is that the outcomes would not have been different. It is a work of fiction that the teams were picked in a way that would have affected anything. As per my other points, we were losing games irrelevantly of any so-called European focus, and we were dropping points and conceding with VdV and Romero in the line up, with a pretty much full-strength squad.
If he would have had the same squad and same injuries this season, there's absolutely no evidence - based on what we'd seen for 2 years - that we'd be any better off, because all of the issues are just constant excuses for why he couldn't win a game.
If we want to play "if he had better players and no injuries we could have finished top 4" then we're effectively saying that people like Tim Sherwood, Redknapp, and Pochettino were better anyway