Swansea v Spurs

[sammyspurs]

If Dembele still was injured, then Toby would be a good option in midfield. Having Alli together with Carroll would be to soft against Liverpool. It would be nice to see if Alli and Mason could do a job together, but it would probably be to soft also.

Yet Dembele is not good as a DM and his best performances have by far been further forward.

As I said, its not a magic show, where you peel off a name and say "he can fill in".

Dier has improved us immensley...a Poch masterstroke. Are you suggesting it wasnt really a big change and we had effective DMs the whole time anyway? Bizarre.

We will suffer without Dier there, and we have no DM to fill in. Accept it.

 

[Joe Clash]

Yet Dembele is not good as a DM and his best performances have by far been further forward.

As I said, its not a magic show, where you peel off a name and say "he can fill in".

Dier has improved us immensley...a Poch masterstroke. Are you suggesting it wasnt really a big change and we had effective DMs anyway? Bizarre.

I said back in the transfer thread that Dier would probably end up leaving if he wasn't one of the first choice CB's - Poch had everything to gain by playing him at DM, but obviously l didn't think he'd make the transition so smoothly. Cover for him is a different story, but by solving two potential problems in one Poch deserves a lot of credit. It's easy for us lot to theorise, but he has to stand by it. Masterstroke indeed.

 

[Jo Inge]

Yet Dembele is not good as a DM and his best performances have by far been further forward.

As I said, its not a magic show, where you peel off a name and say "he can fill in".

Dier has improved us immensley...a Poch masterstroke. Are you suggesting it wasnt really a big change and we had effective DMs the whole time anyway? Bizarre.

We will suffer without Dier there, and we have no DM to fill in. Accept it.

I'm not saying Dembele can do as good a job as Dier has done, but he, Mason and Bentaleb can all do a few matches this year. Dembele did a fine job against Chelsea at WHL last season stepping in for Mason when he got injured, so he can do a ok job even in big games.

I would argue that we would be in the same position as now if we had signed Bender in the summer, because Dier wouldn't have the same experience he's got now. Would you be more happy now if Dier(without DM experience) was the one who was gonna replace Bender for the Liverpool game?

"We will suffer without Dier there, and we have no DM to fill in. Accept it." Yes we will suffer without Dier, but probably not to much considering we still have the same options that we had last season.

 

[Benny]

I said back in the transfer thread that Dier would probably end up leaving if he wasn't one of the first choice CB's - Poch had everything to gain by playing him at DM, but obviously l didn't think he'd make the transition so smoothly. Cover for him is a different story, but by solving two potential problems in one Poch deserves a lot of credit. It's easy for us lot to theorise, but he has to stand by it. Masterstroke indeed.

Do you mean leaving as in on loan, or permanently? I personally don't think he would have left on a transfer, if that's what you mean. I'm not even sure he would have been allowed to go out on loan, as he was quite important for us last season.

 

[Joe Clash]

Do you mean leaving as in on loan, or permanently? I personally don't think he would have left on a transfer, if that's what you mean. I'm not even sure he would have been allowed to go out on loan, as he was quite important for us last season.

Well it's a possibility that a talented, hungry young player wouldn't have been happy on the bench, and why should he be? I'm not doubting his loyalty, but as you say, he was hugely important for us last season, and playing second fiddle to Jan and Toby would have been a massive comedown. Managers have enough to do without dealing with unhappy players, and Poch has cleverly avoided this situation arising. Eric gets first team football, and we get an extremely promising DM. Everyone's happy. Even Levy, but that's another story.

 

[Benny]

Well it's a possibility that a talented, hungry young player wouldn't have been happy on the bench, and why should he be? I'm not doubting his loyalty, but as you say, he was hugely important for us last season, and playing second fiddle to Jan and Toby would have been a massive comedown. Managers have enough to do without dealing with unhappy players, and Poch has cleverly avoided this situation arising. Eric gets first team football, and we get an extremely promising DM. Everyone's happy. Even Levy, but that's another story.

Would have been interesting to know whether Eric was told he would be on the fringes for a season or two, but ended up playing a lot more than expected due to injuries and rotation. Good situation for everyone right now though, he gets first team football, the club have (seemingly) found a solution to solidify the team and it gives Pochettino another option in both midfield and defence.

 

[Boltonspur]

I'm not saying Dembele can do as good a job as Dier has done, but he, Mason and Bentaleb can all do a few matches this year. Dembele did a fine job against Chelsea at WHL last season stepping in for Mason when he got injured, so he can do a ok job even in big games.

I would argue that we would be in the same position as now if we had signed Bender in the summer, because Dier wouldn't have the same experience he's got now. Would you be more happy now if Dier(without DM experience) was the one who was gonna replace Bender for the Liverpool game?

"We will suffer without Dier there, and we have no DM to fill in. Accept it." Yes we will suffer without Dier, but probably not to much considering we still have the same options that we had last season.

I don't think anyone (save for Gibbsy cos all his predictions come true, you know?) saw just how effective Dier would be & how swiftly he would adapt to his new role. With hindsight, I think everyone has to accept that Poch got that one spot on. So I'm glad we didn't splash out silly money on Schneiderlin because there's little chance we would have seen Dier emerge as he has done if we had a £30 million DM (who had played for Poch before) to slot straight into the starting XI. The problem now is that we know Dier will be a sore miss for us when he doesn't play. He has kind of nailed the position as his own & in front of Toby/Jan he provides a great shield. I don't See why Bentaleb/Mason can't fill in though & we have to juggle the squad around to accommodate his loss to the team. I think an older, experienced DM would be a valuable addition- someone who can replace Eric when he's unavailable or compliment him in certain games where we are getting overrun/protecting a narrow lead. But finding the high quality type who will not be a starting regular & who will happily warm the bench for large parts of the season isn't as easy as it sounds. Same with a back up CF for Kane. Getting someone is easy enough (Saha/Nelsen/Frasier fucking Campbell). Getting someone of the necessary standard who will accept being second fiddle isn't quite as easy.

 

[Joe Clash]

Would have been interesting to know whether Eric was told he would be on the fringes for a season or two, but ended up playing a lot more than expected due to injuries and rotation. Good situation for everyone right now though, he gets first team football, the club have (seemingly) found a solution to solidify the team and it gives Pochettino another option in both midfield and defence.

I don't suppose for a minute he would have thought he'd be in so quickly, but what happened happened, and he did everything that was asked of him. He steps up every time, l love him.

 

[tbonepremier]

It seems widely accepted that Dier makes our defence look better, that they are now better shielded. But isn't it also quite possible that our more solid defence is helping Dier look good. Our 'bang average' last seasons first choice CMs, who mostly did very well last season, might look more defensively solid by having the Jan-Toby partnership and this season's Walker behind them.

Bentaleb and Mason are still very capable to do the job as our CMs, of that I am confident. But yeah, we are stronger in midfield this season due to the emergence of Dier the DM.

 

[sammyspurs]

Dembele did a fine job against Chelsea at WHL last season stepping in for Mason when he got injured, so he can do a ok job even in big games.

Dembele was almost wide right in that game, was further forward than any DM. He filled in for Mason, who is not a DM, and he did a good job because he is a far better player than Mason. But he is not a good defensive mid.

Yes we will suffer without Dier, but probably not to much considering we still have the same options that we had last season.

The same options which helped us ship 53 goals when three of the seasons best performers were in defence.
Ive said it before, maybe you dont see what a good DM brings to a back line though?

But isn't it also quite possible that our more solid defence is helping Dier look good.

Im pretty sure had Dier been playing like this in midfield alongside last seasons Bentaleb, we would have been massively better at the back, even without Toby. No doubting Toby's contribution, and he has strengthened us a whole lot too, but the fact the back line is not constantly wide open to barage after barage of counter attacks helps a lot.

 

[Jo Inge]

Dembele was almost wide right in that game, was further forward than any DM. He filled in for Mason, who is not a DM, and he did a good job because he is a far better player than Mason. But he is not a good defensive mid.

Wide right? So when he came on for Mason after 14min, which one of Chadli, Eriksen, Townsend or Kane played MC together with Bentaleb?

The same options which helped us ship 53 goals when three of the seasons best performers were in defence.
Ive said it before, maybe you dont see what a good DM brings to a back line though?

You could ask Fazio if it helped him having Dier as a DM against Arse? Its hard for Dier to make players like Fazio stop giving away the ball with horrible passes strait to the opposition.
Dier deserves a lot of credit for our defensive progress, but I think its more factors that makes us more solid this season(like Walker, Toby and maybe not exposing us as much as last season with both fullbacks and MCs). We will see how we do against Liverpool without Dier and I hope I'm right, but maybe you get lucky and we lose so you can win the internet

 

[scott]

Bentaleb has played around 160 minutes of football so far this season and admittedly hasn't set the world on fire with his performances.

But suddenly he's gone from our standout player last season with bags of potential to "bang average mid-table" on the basis of a couple of wonky performances and by being injured for the majority of the season so far??

i think he will be class.
just more of a confidence problem this season.

 

[scott]

I said back in the transfer thread that Dier would probably end up leaving if he wasn't one of the first choice CB's - Poch had everything to gain by playing him at DM, but obviously l didn't think he'd make the transition so smoothly. Cover for him is a different story, but by solving two potential problems in one Poch deserves a lot of credit. It's easy for us lot to theorise, but he has to stand by it. Masterstroke indeed.

he is like phil jones (CB, RB & DM).
only much better & with a better head on his shoulders too.

u can see the difference in him being coached in portugal compared to our homegrown english youngsters.
they have a better mentality & seem more adaptable & flexiable in different set ups & positions.

 

[sammyspurs]

Wide right? So when he came on for Mason after 14min, which one of Chadli, Eriksen, Townsend or Kane played MC together with Bentaleb?

None, Dembele was put in to replace Mason, and he played further forward, and wider than any DM would. Hence my stance that he is not a shoe in for Dier.

You could ask Fazio if it helped him having Dier as a DM against Arse? Its hard for Dier to make players like Fazio stop giving away the ball with horrible passes strait to the opposition.

You could ask Fazio if he would have coped better if he had played a game since about February too...or ever played in that 11 before, alongside Wimmer.

We will see how we do against Liverpool without Dier and I hope I'm right, but maybe you get lucky and we lose so you can win the internet

I dont care if we lose, I hope we make a good account of ourselves and Poch shows some tactical ability without our key midfielder this season and whoever comes in shows some improvement with their defensive duties.

I do care if we take a huge step backwards and get fucked sideways over the fact we dont have squad depth, and didnt bother to address it.

Maybe you can happy clap a Liverpool win to show you are such a good Spurs fan. Irony.

Isnt it funny how I supposedly celebrate our defeats "to be right", while at the same time Im "melting" over the defeat..doesnt work really does it.

 

[Jo Inge]

We will see how we do against Liverpool without Dier and I hope I'm right, but maybe you get lucky and we lose so you can win the internet

This was a bit harsh, but you do love a good "I told you so"

Maybe you can happy clap a Liverpool win to show you are such a good Spurs fan. Irony.

If we win against Liverpool I will happy clappy until my hands bleed! I really hope I don't sound like someone who thinks hes a better fan then others, because that's not the kind of person I am.

None, Dembele was put in to replace Mason, and he played further forward, and wider than any DM would. Hence my stance that he is not a shoe in for Dier.

Ok, so he played as a MC just like Dier, Im glad we are agreeing

You could ask Fazio if he would have coped better if he had played a game since about February too...or ever played in that 11 before, alongside Wimmer.

I do agree with this, but Kaboul, Vlad and Fazio always seem to be able to make some crazy mistake every match. The best DM in the world couldn't fix this.

 

[Bazali]

:bentalebscream: When did Bentaleb disappear? 4 players competing for 2 places sounds good to me, Dembele, Carroll and Winks can also step in when players are injured.

Bentelab has been playing crap for ages so it isn't good!

 

[Bazali]

Mason and Bentaleb managed to get us to 5th last season so they definitely don't suck. We're much better defensively with Dier, but Kaboul, Vlad, Fazio(and last seasons Walker) will have to take some responsibility for our defense last season.


Its also a window where we sold/released about 10? players and bought 5 players(+ adding Alli and Pritchard). Its hard to fix a mess of a squad in one window.

Mason & Bentelab didn't get us to 5th

Harry's miracle goal run did and just papered over the cracks!

 

[Bazali]

he is like phil jones (CB, RB & DM).
only much better & with a better head on his shoulders too.

u can see the difference in him being coached in portugal compared to our homegrown english youngsters.
they have a better mentality & seem more adaptable & flexiable in different set ups & positions.

Phil Jones is a useless cunt so no compliment there!

Dier streets ahead of him.

 

[superstaryid]

Bentaleb is a cracking little player that will be fighting hard to win his place back I think he will have a big career and I have total faith in the lad doing a job for us and he's getting better and better

 

[Bazali]

Bentaleb is a cracking little player that will be fighting hard to win his place back I think he will have a big career and I have total faith in the lad doing a job for us and he's getting better and better

Words fail me.......

:vertna: