Ange Postecoglou

[Harrier]

I’m desperately trying to find some hope in the wake of one of our most insipid performances:

1. Set pieces can be easily coached

2. We have a decent first choice CB pairing

3. If we finish 5th/6th that probably is a true reflection of where our squad is performance wise

4. A decent 6, wide forward and striker transforms the team IMHO

5. I believe Ange is assessing the squad and we need to be ruthless in who departs

6. We’ve heard that this summer there are likely to be some surprising leavers, so hopefully that mean’s we’re not going to retain on past glories/sentimentalities

7. I don’t think we’ll knee jerk replace the manager

#glasshalffull

 

[John Thomas]

What about the 4-1 defeat Klopp had against us at Wembley?
The thing is Klopp was given the tools he needed to be successful , Ange will be given the bare minimum , maybe the managers aren't the problem here?

It's such a dilemma. The mangers ain't the real problem, you're right. Nobody who's serious could argue against that.
But in my opinion, this one is out of his depth, and having owners who have no ambition to win.......it's a scary combination to head into another season with.

 

[Yiddy]

I want to see complete personnel change from him Sunday. Some slight tweaks in instruction and a bit of tactical nouse. If he doesn't do that then I think the writing will be on the wall and the dressing room will be fully lost. 2 potential sides I'd like to see.

Vicario
Romero drag vdv
Porro skipp bissouma lo celso/ kulusevski
Maddison/lo celso
Richarlison son/scarlett

Or if he insists on sticking to the same formation

Vicario
Porro dragusin romero vdv
Skipp bissouma
Johnson lo celso maddison
Richarlison

Time to switch it up and tweak a bit imo. It's not an admission of defeat it's finding a solution to get us out of this hole we are in right now.

 

[Pavlyuchenkooo]

He definitely deserves another season, I still think fans have massively overrated the quality of this team. Can’t believe I’ve had to argue with people that players like Johnson are not good enough and never will be good enough to be a starting front 3 player for a team wanting to challenge for leagues.

I would like to see what his philosophy looks like with a front 3 with some technical ability and a proper holding mid. He obviously needs to have a rethink on his stance on set pieces though, it’s not just defensively either, that lot down the road and Man City are both in the top 3 for set piece goals scored, it’s a massive tool we’re missing out on.

We know how this board operates I’ve given up on hoping they will finally fully back a manager, so our scouts and recruitment team have to get it right this summer, we can’t afford to waste 100 mil on Richarlison/Johnson level players. Our big money purchases have to be players that dramatically improve on what we already have,not just be decent squad players that may or may not improve.

Massive summer ahead but I still believe with the right players Ange can be successful here, his philosophy is the way to go.

I agree to some extent with your view on players, but look at Villa. Is their squad better than ours overall? I don't think so. What they are is coherent, with ownership that is fully on board with what the manager wants to do.

Ange needs the opportunity to get HIS squad in place. Currently he's working with a mismatch. It's not so much the quality of player than the profile of player - getting the right profile of player in requires a structure that is all pushing in the same direction. We don't have that

 

[Harrier]

The worrying thing for me is that we're seeing him stand there on the sideline looking forlorn and a little bit clueless more and more often. The players, some of them, probably aren't doing exactly what he wants them to do. But to be a top coach in the Premier League you need a plan B and C to go along with a plan A when things aren't going smoothly and he just doesn't seem to have that.

If that were the case, why have we tended to be 2nd half FC for large parts of the season?

That would indicate coaching changes at half time wouldn’t it?

 

[LLB Part Deux]

30 pages in one day? Bloody hell.

I am and will remain critical of the way we play under Ange. When it's good, it's oh so good - but when it's bad, it's very bad indeed. Even when we've lost earlier this season, I've been "OK" with it because the overall play was far better than it was under Conte or Nuno. To Dare is to Do and all that.

The tipping point for me was absolutely against Newcastle because everyone with half a brain knew how Newcastle would set up, and knew the way they'd exploit our high press. Ange completely ignored it - even going as far as to say it wasn't worth watching our previous losses against Newcastle. I'm not sure I've ever witnessed arrogance like that from our managers before. That after we'd lost exactly the same way to Fulham just weeks before.

I'd like to give him another season for a few reasons though. Firstly because if he can fix the key issues - set pieces and overloading then being hit on the break - then we could be very good indeed. These are solvable issues with the right application and maybe 1 or 2 personnel. Secondly because I fear him being replaced with another 'pragmatist' who serves up dreary football I don't want to watch, even when we win. Thirdly because I think we have a decent chance of winning a cup under Ange in something like the Europa League - as long as we take it seriously.

 

[Pavlyuchenkooo]

The worrying thing for me is that we're seeing him stand there on the sideline looking forlorn and a little bit clueless more and more often. The players, some of them, probably aren't doing exactly what he wants them to do. But to be a top coach in the Premier League you need a plan B and C to go along with a plan A when things aren't going smoothly and he just doesn't seem to have that.

Concerns about his adaptability are my main gripe with him. You don't need that ability in the J League, or a two-horse race in Scotland. PL requires adaptability and nuance because EVERY team can cause you problems on their day.

I'm Ange In for now, but this issue remains a big unknown.

 

[CarrieFi]

The worrying thing for me is that we're seeing him stand there on the sideline looking forlorn

Not last night

 

[Matt1882]

He's really not. But he is human, not a magician and this is a very tough club to manage. Huge expectations among fans but with no drive from the top to win.

Heavyweights like Mourinho and Conte failed too.

Assuming the form will turn around somewhat, I'd give him at least until Christmas.

I believe Mourinho and Conte had worse squads than Ange and, as a result, could argue they achieved more.
One got a cup final. One got CL footbal.
What has Ange got?

Diddly fucking squat and some wet tonkings in the process.

 

[ginola92]

I agree to some extent with your view on players, but look at Villa. Is their squad better than ours overall? I don't think so. What they are is coherent, with ownership that is fully on board with what the manager wants to do.

Ange needs the opportunity to get HIS squad in place. Currently he's working with a mismatch. It's not so much the quality of player than the profile of player - getting the right profile of player in requires a structure that is all pushing in the same direction. We don't have that

Sorry where are we stronger than villa other than our starting back 4? They have a better midfield than us, better wide players than us, Watkins is a better striker than any of our options through the middle, and vicario v Martinez is a toss up, but just on premier league experience and command of area etc Martinez probably edges it.

But yeah agree Ange needs a particular profile of player for this to work and currently we are a mismatch of players suited to the counter attacking style of Conte and with players suited to our possession and high pressing style.

 

[Murphy]

I believe Mourinho and Conte had worse squads than Ange and, as a result, could argue they achieved more.
One got a cup final. One got CL footbal.
What has Ange got?

Diddly fucking squat and some wet tonkings in the process.

They also had the best striker on the planet.

 

[Matt1882]

Not last night

Did you not see him shaking his head looking utterly beaten after each goal?
Like "how do they keep conceding goals from set pieces, I don't understand" look on his face.

 

[Matt1882]

They also had the best striker on the planet.

And an apocalyptically bad defence.

 

[Pavlyuchenkooo]

Sorry where are we stronger than villa other than our starting back 4? They have a better midfield than us, better wide players than us, Watkins is a better striker than any of our options through the middle, and vicario v Martinez is a toss up, but just on premier league experience and command of area etc Martinez probably edges it.

But yeah agree Ange needs a particular profile of player for this to work and currently we are a mismatch of players suited to the counter attacking style of Conte and with players suited to our possession and high pressing style.

If you look at the players individually I think we match them in a number of areas. Difference is that their manager has been given the time to get the best out of those players, figure out their best roles and make a system that works.

Under Gerrard Watkins wasn't starting and McGinn looked Championship level with fans wanting him to be sold. The quality of the individuals isn't the problem imo it's that it's not coherent. I think with time and another window Ange can improve that.

 

[LLB Part Deux]

One of the things he needs to drill into his players is that we need to get the ball into advanced positions faster and take risks with shots / crosses. Slowing down the attack, when you've got 6 or 7 players supporting that attack, is extraordinarily dangerous. It's usually just a matter of time before someone (often Son) loses possession and suddenly you're running back to goal desperately hoping VDV can pull out a recovering tackle.

If we find ourselves in that kind of position - attack vs banked defence then the fullbacks and at least one CM should fuck off back to the halfway line to pre-empt the turnover of possession. We simply aren't doing that. It might also reduce the congestion in their area which hinders rather than helps us most of the time.

 

[RicharliSon]

If that were the case, why have we tended to be 2nd half FC for large parts of the season?

That would indicate coaching changes at half time wouldn’t it?

Like last night it's just upping the intensity more than anything tactically amazing. We would have to go some to be as shit in the second half as we often are in the first.

 

[Murphy]

And an apocalyptically bad defence.

And yet we are on track to concede more goals with "better" players.

 

[Matt1882]

Sorry where are we stronger than villa other than our starting back 4? They have a better midfield than us, better wide players than us, Watkins is a better striker than any of our options through the middle, and vicario v Martinez is a toss up, but just on premier league experience and command of area etc Martinez probably edges it.

But yeah agree Ange needs a particular profile of player for this to work and currently we are a mismatch of players suited to the counter attacking style of Conte and with players suited to our possession and high pressing style.

They have a much, much better manager than us.

 

[Murphy]

One of the things he needs to drill into his players is that we need to get the ball into advanced positions faster and take risks with shots / crosses. Slowing down the attack, when you've got 6 or 7 players supporting that attack, is extraordinarily dangerous. It's usually just a matter of time before someone (often Son) loses possession and suddenly you're running back to goal desperately hoping VDV can pull out a recovering tackle.

If we find ourselves in that kind of position - attack vs banked defence then the fullbacks and at least one CM should fuck off back into position to pre-empt the turnover of possession. We simply aren't doing that. It might also reduce the congestion in their area which hinders rather than helps us most of the time.

What worked early in the season (and what I assume Angeball is supposed to be) is that when we attack they are overloaded. Yet by the time we get to their 18 yard line, it's just passed back and recycled, nullifying any attacking benefit; and leaving us exposed on the counter.

 

[Confusius]

The new system wasn't an issue for the first ten games. So that's a cop out.

Injuries disrupted our season, but that is also on Levy for selling Dav and not addressing it until January.

But we've had key players back the whole time and we've still been shit. But what has happened is that we haven't progressed tactically and we've been figured out. Plus the players are clearly not working as hard.

Newcastle have probably had it worse than us and they could yet catch us. United too. All hit by injuries, and all having played more games than we have.

If you don't have the players to play your system, you change the system.

It's a results business first and foremost.

The new system wasn't an issue the first ten games because we had all our important players available!?

Then the Chelski game happened. With that game and the following 4 games we took 1 point out of 15, from being undefeated.

We have never found that rhythm we had after that game.