Manager Ange Postecoglou

[daveyboy88]

Levy basically did it on a zero net spend, and under Poch we very nearly won the league and CL.

Click to shrink...

how much of that was down to levy and how much of it was down to spurs actually being a big club. spurs were seen as a big 4/5 club before levy came about.

hes done some good work away from football, but his football operations have stunk. over 25 years, i think the few moments of joy we have had with football has been down to luck more than anything. eventually a bit of shit is going to stick, its law of averages.

i was willing to give him till now because he did say after the stadium was built money would be spent on the squad, which it has. but hes failed yet again, the hiring of this charlatan manager and persisting with him is the final straw for me. his intentions might be good but hes not got a clue about football, thats been made obvious. hes even tried to hire a DOF and fucked that up by hiring a crook who would end up being banned from working. you couldnt make it up.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

Seeing Ange interviewed now is quite sad . He comes across as a guy who went into the casino for the first time and bet on his families birth dates on roulette and he won. He then went back 3 more times and did the same thing and won every time , he was convinced he had a system. He now goes back and regularly does his bollocks but believes his system has to come good.

Ange mate you had some good luck and now you have been found out , you did not have a magic system. I have to say for while at the start I thought you did when you lifted the gloom around the place. I even chose to hope you did when the evidence was mounting up that you didn’t . but the facts are you are getting your pants pulled down every time you walk through the door now

I am genuinely gutted for us that it didn’t work out , but also for Ange because seeing everything he believed , he was so sure of unravel must be really hard to to take.

 

[Klaus]

how much of that was down to levy and how much of it was down to spurs actually being a big club. spurs were seen as a big 4/5 club before levy came about.

hes done some good work away from football, but his football operations have stunk. over 25 years, i think the few moments of joy we have had with football has been down to luck more than anything. eventually a bit of shit is going to stick, its law of averages.

i was willing to give him till now because he did say after the stadium was built money would be spent on the squad, which it has. but hes failed yet again, the hiring of this charlatan manager and persisting with him is the final straw for me. his intentions might be good but hes not got a clue about football, thats been made obvious. hes even tried to hire a DOF and fucked that up by hiring a crook who would end up being banned from working. you couldnt make it up.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I'd agree with that. I just think all this noise about blaming everything on Levy is just a way to deflect any blame from Ange. And of course, Levy bears ultimate responsibility for hiring that moron. But equally, he's put the structures in place to build what I think is a relatively decent squad over the last couple of years, and built a stadium which is pissing money. He's far from perfect, but we could do a lot worse.

And most importantly, he's going nowhere, so all the chat about him is so boring. It's like yelling at clouds.

 

[Shadydan]

Of course it's a failure if a manager fail to win trophies. The longer time passes, the bigger this failure becomes. A serious club doesn't accept that this failure becomes too big. So Emery is failing but his failure is still quite small and there is a good reason for the Villa owners to believe that he actually will win a trophy in the near future. Is Ange's failure small? Yes, it is. Is there a good reason for Levy to believe that he will win a trophy in the near future? No.

Click to shrink...

Poch was a failure and Ramos was a complete success, is that right?

 

[harry7]

The rose-tinted glasses for Poch are strange. So many weeks we watched the same slow, boring, patient build up. Just passing the ball endlessly around midfield. Zero urgency, even when down with a few minutes to play.

He had an elite talented squad; and was playing in probably the worse EPL since its inception - With City, Woolwich, Chelsea, United, Liverpool all transitioning through rebuilds.

Poch had 1 game plan. Keep the ball, play it safe, wait for Eriksen to find a pass.

 

[daveyboy88]

Yeah I'd agree with that. I just think all this noise about blaming everything on Levy is just a way to deflect any blame from Ange. And of course, Levy bears ultimate responsibility for hiring that moron. But equally, he's put the structures in place to build what I think is a relatively decent squad over the last couple of years, and built a stadium which is pissing money. He's far from perfect, but we could do a lot worse.

And most importantly, he's going nowhere, so all the chat about him is so boring. It's like yelling at clouds.

Click to shrink...

yep, thats the most frustrating thing with it all, the foundations are great. but levy is the chairman equivalent to postecoglou the manager. we just have to pray that once this clown is sacked he gets lucky like he did with poch, because now we have even stronger foundations. the right manager can do big things with this club.

i think if we can get either iraola, terzic or silva then there will be a buzz about the place. anyone else is underwhelming.

 

[BJK]

Funny thing is, prior to today, people had been brainstorming in various threads about how this team would look like in a back 3 for quite some time. Our wingers are our Achilles heel. We have fullbacks who can keep up with that intensity for 90 minutes without having insurmountable problems. Some of the aforementioned wingers, who are poor in a traditional role, could do with playing narrower and/or as a secondary striker. Even Kulusevski and Maddison are midfielders who can score at a decent rate. We have workhorses in midfield who, if it comes down to it, can handle playing in a 2 man midfield. In a compact team where pressing is a collective effort that is, not what we witnessed today. This could have been a good way for him to reinvent himself and get credit for it. What a wasted opportunity on his part.

He made such a mess of it that from now on any mention of a back 3 will probably be met with scorn and ridicule, as people will rightfully be remembering this first half. Well done.

 

[Phomesy]

Funny thing is, prior to today, people had been brainstorming in various threads about how this team would look like in a back 3 for quite some time. Our wingers are our Achilles heel. We have fullbacks who can keep up with that intensity for 90 minutes without having insurmountable problems. Some of the aforementioned wingers, who are poor in a traditional role, could do with playing narrower and/or as a secondary striker next to a target man type. We have workhorses in midfield who, if it comes down to it, can handle playing in a 2 man midfield. In a compact team where pressing is a collective effort that is, not what we witnessed today. This could have been a good way for him to reinvent himself and get credit for it. What a wasted opportunity on his part.

He made such a mess of it that from now on any mention of a back 3 will probably be met with scorn and ridicule, as people will rightfully be remembering this first half. Well done.

Click to shrink...

Amorim has been trying to get his team to play that system for months and he's now calling his team the worst United team in history because they simply won't get it.

I think we can possibly cut Postecoglou some slack for having 48 hours to try out a system forced by losing 3 first team players - on top of all the other injured players - in 72 hours.

At least he seemed open to idea which, as you say, is not a bad one in principle. And might be employed by the caretaker if/when they take over.

 

[Klaus]

Funny thing is, prior to today, people had been brainstorming in various threads about how this team would look like in a back 3 for quite some time. Our wingers are our Achilles heel. We have fullbacks who can keep up with that intensity for 90 minutes without having insurmountable problems. Some of the aforementioned wingers, who are poor in a traditional role, could do with playing narrower and/or as a secondary striker. Even Kulusevski and Maddison are midfielders who can score at a decent rate. We have workhorses in midfield who, if it comes down to it, can handle playing in a 2 man midfield. In a compact team where pressing is a collective effort that is, not what we witnessed today. This could have been a good way for him to reinvent himself and get credit for it. What a wasted opportunity on his part.

He made such a mess of it that from now on any mention of a back 3 will probably be met with scorn and ridicule, as people will rightfully be remembering this first half. Well done.

Click to shrink...

I was one of them - I think our squad really suits a back three. Our "wingers" are pretty much all better as inside forwards (Son, Kulu, Brennan, Richy, even Maddison could probably do great as an Eriksen style 10 in a 3-4-3).

Our fullbacks are all actually wingbacks (Porro, Udogie, Spence, etc). Davies is better as a LCB in a three, and Dragusin-Romero-VDV is an insanely strong and balanced trio.

Plus, we have the players to switch to a 3-5-2 and play Son and Solanke up top in what could be a lethal pairing. Then you have a bunch of very adequate DM double pivots in Bentancur, Sarr, Gray, Bergvall. Conte was a cunt but he would absolutely kill for this squad.

Obviously then Ange goes and plays the most batshit insane "back three" you've ever seen in your life, with Gray pushed up into the #10 and the entire right hand side of our pitch wide-fucking-open. Not a single player looked like he knew what he should be doing today. Cheers Ange, you absolute clown.

 

[Slav]

Amorim has been trying to get his team to play that system for months and he's now calling his team the worst United team in history because they simply won't get it.

I think we can possibly cut Postecoglou some slack for having 48 hours to try out a system forced by losing 3 first team players - on top of all the other injured players - in 72 hours.

At least he seemed open to idea which, as you say, is not a bad one in principle. And might be employed by the caretaker if/when they take over.

Click to shrink...

I think the biggest indictment is that it took getting to this point for him to make the shift - one of desperation rather than adapting sooner. Even then, it looked a right mess. It was only ever going to have disastrous consequences on a short turnaround with a makeshift team, at least half of whom seem like they're always playing out of position.

Players have off days, but the VAST majority of the blame has to go to poor coaching and management.

 

[daveyboy88]

Not a single player looked like he knew what he should be doing today

Click to shrink...

made obvious by the amount of green you could see in the middle of the pitch with a lack of white shirts occupying. hes the absolute worst lol. anyone who has the slightest idea about the game understands how important the midfield is, its where games are won and lost. if your midfield overpower and outplay your oppositions then its fucking hard for you to not come away with a win....this clown neglects the midfield like youve never seen. he ends up having wide wingers and close to them fullbacks playing in a wide CAM spot, the actual heart of the pitch is basically derelict.

id actually love to really know what the 19 other managers think of him, its actually insulting to them that hes seen as a peer right now.

 

[harry7]

We know that when we have been cooking under Ange, we have been excellent, and you could certainly see the foundations of a title challenge in the next couple of years.

BUT, once again, as momentum builds the board once again fails to back the manager.

After losing Kane; and still managing the finish 5th, despite a season littered with injuries - we lose experienced players in Skipp, Royal, Dier, Holjberg, Perisic - and replace them with Grey, Yang, Odobert, Solanke, Bergvall. 4 x 18 years olds and a striker who is bang average.

With our history of injuries - why on earth did well sell arguably our leader and best player last season in Holjberg????? A man that has never been injured. A warrior. Yet we kept Bentencaur who has a serious knee injury that will likely mean he never really plays at a decent level again; and Bissouma who plays every game like its a kickabout with his mates down the local park.

So, either the club acknowledges that we will be shite for 3-4 years whilst these kids learn how to play football; or they are entirely inept.

ANGE and his system can only be judged when he has the players available. Grey, Bergvall, Sarr, Dragusin, Moore, Odobert aren't ready to be starters. They should be getting minutes in cups, or off the bench. Not starting games. It's no accident that Liverpool don't have anyone under 21 in their squad; and their matchday squad is typically all 24+ with 1 kid rotated.

The experienced players in our squad are Richy, Solanke, Maddison, Bissouma, Kulu, Son and Romero. All but Kulu are in torrid form and none of them are leaders.

 

[BJK]

Amorim has been trying to get his team to play that system for months and he's now calling his team the worst United team in history because they simply won't get it.

Click to shrink...

Amorim's trying to play it with 2 offensively challenged fullbacks which in practice turns into a back 5 far too often. They're simply toothless, they're not giving up 3 goals in a single half against a team that had scored 15 in the previous 20 matches. Porro and even Spence/Udogie are miles better than guys like Dalot and Mazraoui offensively, this aforementioned danger of a back 5 is not nearly as significant for a team like ours.

I think we can possibly cut Postecoglou some slack for having 48 hours to try out a system forced by losing 3 first team played in 72 hours.

Click to shrink...

Like I said, people had been speculating about it for a long time. There was no excuse for him to resort to this under such dire circumstances, with far from ideal personnel available. It's obvious that our wingers are poor, that Solanke would love to have at least one player in his close promixity that'll play off of him, that if it's possible to get anything out of players like Son and Johnson it has to be in a more central role where they can channel most of their efforts towards goal scoring. Why did it take so long?

At least he seemed open to idea which, as you say, is not a bad one in principle. And might be employed by the caretaker if/when they take over.

Click to shrink...

Regardless of the result, I would have been willing to give him credit for his willingness to try new things if not for what he did with Gray. He watched as we left the right side of the pitch wide open for 45 mins, because he apparently was expecting Gray to play RCB and DM simultaneously.

 

[Phomesy]

I think the biggest indictment is that it took getting to this point for him to make the shift - one of desperation rather than adapting sooner. Even then, it looked a right mess. It was only ever going to have disastrous consequences on a short turnaround with a makeshift team, at least half of whom seem like they're always playing out of position.

Players have off days, but the VAST majority of the blame has to go to poor coaching and management.

Click to shrink...

Not sure how he was supposed to train and play a back 3 during an injury crisis affecting all of our centre backs?

He got Davies back and in the same 72 hours lost Bissouma, Johnson and Solanke. So he tried to adapt. It didn't work. It hasn't worked for Amorim who has been trying it for months with a fully fit United squad.

I'm just not sure this is the stick to beat him with. Personally I think he should have stuck with his usual set up and started Lankshear but I'm not an expert unlike everyone else on here

 

[Phomesy]

Amorim's trying to play it with 2 offensively challenged fullbacks which in practice turns into a back 5 far too often. They're simply toothless, they're not giving up 3 goals in a single half against a team that had scored 15 in the previous 20 matches. Porro and even Spence/Udogie are miles better than guys like Dalot and Mazraoui offensively, this aforementioned danger of a back 5 is not nearly as significant for a team like ours.


Like I said, people had been speculating about it for a long time. There was no excuse for him to resort to this under such dire circumstances, with far from ideal personnel available. It's obvious that our wingers are poor, that Solanke would love to have at least one player in his close promixity that'll play off of him, that if it's possible to get anything out of players like Son and Johnson it has to be in a more central role where they can channel most of their efforts towards goal scoring. Why did it take so long?

Regardless of the result, I would have been willing to give him credit for his willingness to try new things if not for what he did with Gray. He watched as we left the right side of the pitch wide open for 45 mins, because he apparently was expecting Gray to play RCB and DM simultaneously.

Click to shrink...

See my reply to Slav

Look you're probably right and I'm no expert unlike the experts on here BUT I will just note that Postecoglou was specifically hired not to play a back 3/5 because all the geniuses on here and elsewhere demanded we never do that again after they got Nuno/Conte sacked.

So I'm not surprised he hasn't trained the team extensively in that formation especially not when most of our centre backs haven't been available

As a non expert I would like structure - even if that means starting a teenage striker over Son or Maddison or even Kulu

 

[bus-conductor]

Gareth fucking Southgate. Ffs. I’d rather Ryan Mason.

 

[enfield1985]

We know that when we have been cooking under Ange, we have been excellent, and you could certainly see the foundations of a title challenge in the next couple of years.

BUT, once again, as momentum builds the board once again fails to back the manager.

After losing Kane; and still managing the finish 5th, despite a season littered with injuries - we lose experienced players in Skipp, Royal, Dier, Holjberg, Perisic - and replace them with Grey, Yang, Odobert, Solanke, Bergvall. 4 x 18 years olds and a striker who is bang average.

With our history of injuries - why on earth did well sell arguably our leader and best player last season in Holjberg????? A man that has never been injured. A warrior. Yet we kept Bentencaur who has a serious knee injury that will likely mean he never really plays at a decent level again; and Bissouma who plays every game like its a kickabout with his mates down the local park.

So, either the club acknowledges that we will be shite for 3-4 years whilst these kids learn how to play football; or they are entirely inept.

ANGE and his system can only be judged when he has the players available. Grey, Bergvall, Sarr, Dragusin, Moore, Odobert aren't ready to be starters. They should be getting minutes in cups, or off the bench. Not starting games. It's no accident that Liverpool don't have anyone under 21 in their squad; and their matchday squad is typically all 24+ with 1 kid rotated.

The experienced players in our squad are Richy, Solanke, Maddison, Bissouma, Kulu, Son and Romero. All but Kulu are in torrid form and none of them are leaders.

Click to shrink...

The fact is Postecoglou signed off on the summer transfer window. Never once during the summer transfer window did he say they are not backing me.

Also the whole thing where you say we are really cooking under Ange I assume you are talking about the Brentford, Everton, Villa and West Ham games. I suggest you rewatch them and at the same time rewatch the Newcastle and Brighton away this season as the perfect antithesis to these matches. The fact is all the matches where we are really “Cooking”, we do it for a really short period of time and it is where our press has caused chaos with their defence and we score a lot of goals over a short period of time.

The fact is without the press Postecoglou’s Spurs do not create clear cut chances. Ange’s attacking patterns at Spurs seem to isolate our forward Players. Quite often Solanke is the only player in the whole penalty area with our “Wingers” on the touch line quite often double up on because our build up is so slow.

 

[harry7]

The fact is without the press Postecoglou’s Spurs do not create clear cut chances. Ange’s attacking patterns at Spurs seem to isolate our forward Players. Quite often Solanke is the only player in the whole penalty area with our “Wingers” on the touch line quite often double up on because our build up is so slow.

Click to shrink...

We have scored the 2nd most goals in the EPL this season. The main issues are not having a decent number 6 or a defense.

Our midfield doesn't cut out transitions; and our defense has low quality and inexperienced players. We actually missed Johnson yesterday, who helps our Porro in defense. Bergvall and Sarr played like you expect you kids to do - running around with lots of enthusiasm, but always getting pulled out of position and losing the ball.

 

[AlabamaSpur]

How’s he still employed

 

[Slav]

See my reply to Slav

Look you're probably right and I'm no expert unlike the experts on here BUT I will just note that Postecoglou was specifically hired not to play a back 3/5 because all the geniuses on here and elsewhere demanded we never do that again after they got Nuno/Conte sacked.

So I'm not surprised he hasn't trained the team extensively in that formation especially not when most of our centre backs haven't been available

As a non expert I would like structure - even if that means starting a teenage striker over Son or Maddison or even Kulu

Click to shrink...

Sorry, I should have made the distinction of "a shift" rather than being a 3-3-3-1 formation or whatever the fuck it was Ange attempted to do yesterday.

Great managers hold to their principles while respecting the strengths of their tools at hand in how they set up and coach the team imo. That doesn't necessarily mean abandoning structure - it's about getting the best out of available squad and respecting your opponent. The biggest backroom teams that football has ever seen, and e.g. we continue playing Son and BJ as touchline wingers when it's clearly not in their wheelhouse (and nor has it ever been).

Not sure why you feel the need for condescending allusions of "experts on here", btw.