Manager Ange Postecoglou

[thinktank]

You asked what I specifically saw in Ryan Mason's tactics during his two brief caretaker spells as parts of two different prior coaching staffs and what that might indicate about how his Spurs would attack Bodo/Glimt.

My answer is that I think trying to extract any tactical or philosophical principles from that sample in those contexts is an absurd exercise in self-deception.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my answer to your question. If that's "just vibes", so be it.

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I just asked this: "What specifically is it that Mason did, tactically, in his short spells at the helm for us, that makes him less of a competent tactician that Ange."

I didn't mention Bodo.

And I only expected you to answer from what you witnessed, as much as you recall.

There's nothing to extract.

I'm asking about obvious, apparent structure, balance and dynamics.

Not asking anything cryptic.

The fact that it seems so hard to answer... is the answer, I guess.

 

[thinktank]

Ange had had experience managing teams through high level, high stress situations.... given teams talks in the situations.

The thing he did before the final with the messages from players families.... that's team building and understanding players needs which comes from experience.

I guess my question to you is what makes you think Mason and Wells would have?

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So, vibes, aura and motivation?

 

[JimothyCF14]

If he's so good at motivating, how come we lsot 22 games in the PL and finished 17th?

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um, like I said in my post the job needs more than just motivation? I'm simply acknowledging that the players do seem to like him and he does seem good at that kind of thing, but I don't think I said anywhere that alone is anything like enough for this job.

 

[Aussies Dream]

I guess we should prepare ourselves for another season of Ange’s Balls

 

[John Duncan]

if he really was the straight talking truth sayer he would've said, 'we had a terrible league campaign with a lot of injuries but a lot we got wrong too and it's unacceptable. this cup is very important for the club and we're thrilled but there's much work to be done to get back to where we belong.'

instead it's, 'yeah mate i don't know what everyone is complaining about. i did miracles.'

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In fairness : 99.9 % of anything that comes out of Prem managers’ mouths in ( contractually obligatory) interviews is either bluster , bullshit , evasion or aggrandisement.

Don’t read too much into anything that comes out of their mouths ; they receive an enormous amount of training to do what they do .

 

[FightingIllini]

I just asked this: "What specifically is it that Mason did, tactically, in his short spells at the helm for us, that makes him less of a competent tactician that Ange."

I didn't mention Bodo.

And I only expected you to answer from what you witnessed, as much as you recall.

There's nothing to extract.

I'm asking about obvious, apparent structure, balance and dynamics.

Not asking anything cryptic.

The fact that it seems so hard to answer... is the answer, I guess.

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Mason's 7-game spell in charge finishing up the season from Mourinho was just stopgap tweaks to the way we were already playing under Mourinho with Mason on staff.

Mason's 6-game spell in charge finishing up the season from Conte was just stopgap tweaks to the way we were already playing under Conte with Mason on staff.

The formations were different, the two spells didn't seem to me to have much in common at all. I think quite literally the desire in both cases was to continue the same tactical ideas and add a bit of "vibes, aura and motivation" from a young man respected as a peer by many of his players in a moment where morale had gone to shit.

He's a little older and more experienced now, and some (but not all) of his former teammates have left the squad, but still I expect that an interim spell finishing up the season from Ange would have been just stopgap tweaks to the way we were already playing under Ange with Mason on staff.

 

[Shadydan]

Anyone thinking that Ryan Mason could lead us to European glory shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Spaniel]

A massive what?

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Several nouns come to mind...

 

[Spaniel]

It's pointless having a debate about whether we would or wouldn't have won the EL with Mason, or anybody else, in charge. We will never know.

The fact is, like him or hate him, we won it under Ange. For that, he will always have my gratitude.

If we can get a clear upgrade as manager to replace Ange, I have no problem. The likes of Frank and Glasner do not fall into that category, in my opinion. In the absence of a genuine upgrade, I'm happy to give Ange a shot at redemption in the league next season.

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So to be clear, Ange is a better manager than Frank or Glasner ?
17th in the league..22 losses ?
Are you completely football illiterate?

 

[Harry Vaginola]

In fairness : 99.9 % of anything that comes out of Prem managers’ mouths in ( contractually obligatory) interviews is either bluster , bullshit , evasion or aggrandisement.

Don’t read too much into anything that comes out of their mouths ; they receive an enormous amount of training to do what they do .

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yeah and 99 percent of upper league managers can handle a softball gotcha question from reporters looking for a quote rather than getting thin skinned and cunty. it's not that ange doesn't know how to play the game with the press, he refuses to and the club suffers for it.

 

[John Duncan]

How did Ange's "experience" manifest itself?

What was it, specifically, that Mason and Wells would not have been able to do, that Ange did?

What is it substantively?

Or are you just talking about Aura and Vibes?

If you are not talking about Aura and Vibes, then explain what you mean.

Try and be precise.

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Re : “ how did Ange’s it manifest itself “ .
It just might have manifested itself in doing something none of his TWENTY-SIX ( including repeats : caretakers ) predecessors managed in FORTY-ONE years.

 

[thinktank]

Mason's 7-game spell in charge finishing up the season from Mourinho was just stopgap tweaks to the way we were already playing under Mourinho with Mason on staff.

Mason's 6-game spell in charge finishing up the season from Conte was just stopgap tweaks to the way we were already playing under Conte with Mason on staff.

The formations were different, the two spells didn't seem to me to have much in common at all. I think quite literally the desire in both cases was to continue the same tactical ideas and add a bit of "vibes, aura and motivation" from a young man respected as a peer by many of his players in a moment where morale had gone to shit.

He's a little older and more experienced now, and some (but not all) of his former teammates have left the squad, but still I expect that an interim spell finishing up the season from Ange would have been just stopgap tweaks to the way we were already playing under Ange with Mason on staff.

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So you think after those two spells, in your view (which seems fairly reasonable) he didn't want to deviate too much and kept to some sort of tactical consistency from Mourinho and Conte (like actual tactics, structure and cohesive plan), who are both vastly tactically superior to Ange.

But he would have ditched what he had learned in both those cases and chose to pick up Ange's chaos-ball, with manic random pressing and leaving holes everywhere (which he did finally pay some attention to in the last few games, fair do)?

Or would those tweaks you mention be actual attention to structure, balance, defensive cohesion and general cohesion throughout the 3 phases, which Ange, largely, neglected?

 

[WillWilliams]

This thread has shot past 4000 posts within 24 months and is probably going to reach 5000 posts if he can stay employed by the club.

Love him or loathe him.
People love to talk about him.

Do you think that is a phenomenon only seen here or that the man just attracts attention? I’m very tempted to go look at SC……..

69k posts. I have no idea what that means on that site though. Seems a lot.

 

[John Duncan]

yeah and 99 percent of upper league managers can handle a softball gotcha question from reporters looking for a quote rather than getting thin skinned and cunty. it's not that ange doesn't know how to play the game with the press, he refuses to and the club suffers for it.

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SAF was the biggest c-nt imaginable in press-conferences:
If he didn’t like what he was being asked he simply perma-banned certain journos and even newspapers from attending. Even the blessed BBC .

Never damaged the Mancs under his tenure; in fact it was seen as a sign of strength and indomitabilty.

Wish AP did more of it ; IF he’s given the chance.

Stop being such a pussy where the
“ gentlemen of the fourth estate “ are concerned ffs .

They’re paid to REPORT not dictate events . I can’t understand why you’re so much in awe of them , if I’m being honest.

 

[FightingIllini]

So to be clear, Ange is a better manager than Frank or Glasner ?
17th in the league..22 losses ?
Are you completely football illiterate?

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Glasner, who finished 11th in the 18 team Bundesliga, just 9 points from the drop, because he dedicated all the club's resources to a victorious Europa League campaign.

Frank, who in four PL seasons at Brentford without European football (nor any particularly deep domestic cup run) to draw away energies has never accumulated within 6 points or 4 league places as what Ange did with a similarly open slate in his first season here.

I keep getting reverse-polarized toward Ange by the weakness of the arguments of the people who think he's just a total fraud.

 

[MCSpurs]

Let's not forget what Ange has had to deal with.

1. No Kane, for the first time at Spurs in 10 years
2. Whole back 5 out injured for several weeks, and CBs for months, twice.
3. Two transfer windows of only Solanke and Danso with any real experience - the rest were kids that he had to play because of injuries.
4. A cup final without Kulu, Maddison and Bergval.
5. Playing Timo Werner, because of injuries
6. Not inheriting a squad anywhere near as good as the one Poch had.
7. Son past his best and offering little for most of the season.

And he still won us our first European trophy since 1984 and our first trophy of any note in 17 years - many tried and failed. He's also wiped out all opportunities for those tired 'Spurs trophy cabinet' jokes, and many others.

The one blot on his copybook was finishing 17th. All things being considered, it's a small price to pay (means f'all now) for CL next season, and bringing in better players etc.

Maybe with a good transfer window, less injuries and more strength in depth, Ange just might pull off more than another 4-0 at the Etihad.

So, if Ange has to go, the guy coming in better be some amazing manager, because if he's not, it will just be another reset, before the next one.

 

[Harry Vaginola]

Because Mason is a dreadful manager that couldn't out-tactic a dead fish?

Not a fan of Ange, but there's zero chance Mason wins that

Gonna say it, people are being too extreme on both sides. Ange has to go, thanks for the trophy but he's proven he's not a good manager for PL sides. That said, Mason.... is not even that level, at least Ange is a manager.

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i disagree. i don't see any ideas in what ange puts on the pitch. it's either kamikaze forward or everyone back. there is no plan so therefore anyone could do it. i guess he gets credit for going back to the play-for-your-mum speech but that's about it.

 

[Harry Vaginola]

Glasner, who finished 11th in the 18 team Bundesliga, just 9 points from the drop, because he dedicated all the club's resources to a victorious Europa League campaign.

Frank, who in four PL seasons at Brentford without European football (nor any particularly deep domestic cup run) to draw away energies has never accumulated within 6 points or 4 league places as what Ange did with a similarly open slate in his first season here.

I keep getting reverse-polarized toward Ange by the weakness of the arguments of the people who think he's just a total fraud.

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what do you think that ange does well as a coach? what are the ideas and methods he instills in the players?

 

[Percy Clay]

So to be clear, Ange is a better manager than Frank or Glasner ?
17th in the league..22 losses ?
Are you completely football illiterate?

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Probably. Your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking though.

 

[Spaniel]

Probably. Your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking though.

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I know..I failed everything in school..university, etc etc