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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Phomesy said:
Ffs the hypothetical is a simple "yes". Who on earth wouldn't take a CL for the "cost" of a single year finishing 17th? It's... just nailed on so you're clearly not thinking rationally.

Obviously we would all prefer to finish top 2 and win stuff but why even bother asking that?

Come on mate
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It's not nailed on at all, a whole year of watching shit every week for one night in May, are you just gonna sack off going to games until the end? Or are you going to subject yourself to miserable experience after miserable experience week after week just for one good win at the end?

If you're not considering the longer term ramifications of the fact that another 17th league placing suggests that we are fucking shit in this hypothetical, then you have to discount any long term ramifications of being CL winners in your thinking too.

So what does it become, one win and a decent celebration. In exchange for a whole heap of shit.

Why is CL so big? Because the best teams in the world win it, if winning it doesn't make you feel like you're team is the best in the world, even if only for a moment, then why's it so big for you? I'm taking the liberty of assuming that you agree that if we finish 17th in the league we definitely aren't the best team in the world, and the Cup win would be an absolute fluke.
 
Herclueless said:
It's not nailed on at all, a whole year of watching shit every week for one night in May, are you just gonna sack off going to games until the end? Or are you going to subject yourself to miserable experience after miserable experience week after week just for one good win at the end?

If you're not considering the longer term ramifications of the fact that another 17th league placing suggests that we are fucking shit in this hypothetical, then you have to discount any long term ramifications of being CL winners in your thinking too.

So what does it become, one win and a decent celebration. In exchange for a whole heap of shit.

Why is CL so big? Because the best teams in the world win it, if winning it doesn't make you feel like you're team is the best in the world, even if only for a moment, then why's it so big for you? I'm taking the liberty of assuming that you agree that if we finish 17th in the league we definitely aren't the best team in the world, and the Cup win would be an absolute fluke.
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This is exhausting. I know the point you're trying to make and I sympathise but the equation is simple - if you're offered CL Trophy at the cost of finishing 17th YOU TAKE IT. It really is that simple so everything else you're saying becomes meaningless.

EDIT - I'm NOT saying you have to keep the manager that led us to 17th. Which is, I suspect, where this while silly discussion stems from on your part.
 
Phomesy said:
This is exhausting. I know the point you're trying to make and I sympathise but the equation is simple - if you're offered CL Trophy at the cost of finishing 17th YOU TAKE IT. It really is that simple so everything else you're saying becomes meaningless.

EDIT - I'm NOT saying you have to keep the manager that led us to 17th. Which is, I suspect, where this while silly discussion stems from on your part.
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I mean, it's where this ridiculous hypothetical ultimately stems from full stop.

I don't necessarily take it, because however much you want to restrict the hypothetical to a simple yes or no, you can't change the fact that I do not want to watch such a shit league season again, and a 17th place finish means that happens.
 
Herclueless said:
I mean, it's where this ridiculous hypothetical ultimately stems from full stop.

I don't necessarily take it, because however much you want to restrict the hypothetical to a simple yes or no, you can't change the fact that I do not want to watch such a shit league season again, and a 17th place finish means that happens.
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If Ange stayed, won CL, finished 17th AND WAS SACKED THE NEXT DAY

Would you take that? :D
 
CJJ said:
It might just be my memory, but the good performances from the season we go to the CL final, from my memory, would fit into a 10 minute reel that mostly would include stoppage time in amsterdam
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We blew Dortmund off the park at Wembley (the last great Poch performance), but then got absolutely battered in the first half of the return leg and were enormously fortunate not to concede multiple goals.

We absolutely should have been knocked out of what was the Group of Death before that though, got some very lucky breaks.

The quality of our play was going through a process of unraveling that entire season.
 
Herclueless said:
I don't believe that was part of the hypothetical?

Nor is it in any way a logical extrapolation from anything I've said.
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I made it part of the hypothetical.

I think it's fair to ask where your commitment to league outcomes begins and ends when you are turning down the offer of a guaranteed CL Trophy at the cost of a single season finishing 17th. 🤷‍♂️

You must realise that all of this just makes you look like someone having a tantrum because a manager you don't like won a major European Trophy while finishing 17th. And rather than just fucking enjoy that like 250, 000 other spurs fans did you are engaging in ever more strange contortions about what you consider a "proper football season".
 
Phomesy said:
I made it part of the hypothetical.

I think it's fair to ask where your commitment to league outcomes begins and ends when you are turning down the offer of a guaranteed CL Trophy at the cost of a single season finishing 17th. 🤷‍♂️

You must realise that all of this just makes you look like someone having a tantrum because a manager you don't like won a major European Trophy while finishing 17th. And rather than just fucking enjoy that like 250, 000 other spurs fans did you are engaging in ever more strange contortions about what you consider a "proper football season".
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You're last paragraph is made up nonsense, you're either willfully ignorant, or conflating me with others just because I'm not Ange in. I have no strong feelings either way on the man, I just think he's a hopeless manager.

As for adding things, if I'm not allowed to weigh up the ongoing consequences of us being so shit we finish 17th in the league, then why are you yourself complicating the simple yes or no hypothetical?

If you told me this 17th place finish comes from winning all 38 games by 5 clear goals but we're docked 80 points for financial mismanagement, then I'd bite your hand off, because it's not necessarily 17th place itself that's so abhorrent, it's being subjected to 90 minutes of dross every fucking week.
 
Herclueless said:
You're last paragraph is made up nonsense, you're either willfully ignorant, or conflating me with others just because I'm not Ange in. I have no strong feelings either way on the man, I just think he's a hopeless manager.

As for adding things, if I'm not allowed to weigh up the ongoing consequences of us being so shit we finish 17th in the league, then why are you yourself complicating the simple yes or no hypothetical?

If you told me this 17th place finish comes from winning all 38 games by 5 clear goals but we're docked 80 points for financial mismanagement, then I'd bite your hand off, because it's not necessarily 17th place itself that's so abhorrent, it's being subjected to 90 minutes of dross every fucking week.
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So... would prefer 3rd place finishes and no cups because we'd always be competitive without ever tasting that one moment of glory?

Because it seems the EL trophy wasn't worth it for you when it quite clearly was for the vast majority of Spurs fans. Like... you hated the 17th place more than the joy of the trophy? Is that accurate?

And the only reason I conflated your responses with your feelings about Ange is because I can't find any reason in your response so I'm assuming they're irrational. Scum would bite your hand off for the hypotheticals you've turned down. Why are you acting like we are Real or Oil slavers?
 
the only reason spurs won the europa cup was because ,Ange took a team that finished in 8th spot and had lost kane ,to a 5th place finish and european qualification in his first year in charge. van de ven missed 25 league games, romero missed 20 league games, vicario missed 14 league games ,richarlison missed 23 league games, udogie missed 13 league games ,solanke missed 11 league games. yet there are people who think ange should of kept winning every game without his star players especially his center backs . what is the point of having star players if you can win without them ? in the 4-0 semi final loss in the efl cup to liverpool , the backline was kinsky,spence ,gray,davies ,danso do you honestly believe they could hold on to that 1-0 lead ? the fact spurs took a lead into that match is a credit to ange. the loss to villa in the fa cup the backline was kinsky ,porro ,spence,danso ,gray. when they sit down to analyze why we ended up where we did these thiings have to be taken into consideration. would liverpool have won the title if their starting center backs missed a total of 25 and 20 games ?
 
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