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Management Ange Postecoglou

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I think the 'doesnt know the league ' line of thinking isn't a great argument. Gerrard, lampard, etc 'know the league' and look at how they did. There's a lot to criticise Ange for, not knowing the league isn't a worthwhile one.

Fact is that should we beat Burnley and Sheffield United, we'll finish on our second highest point tally in the past 5 years, there's no way he's getting sacked.

If he's backed I think we can do well, the squad still needs a ton of work, but if the summer is quiet, he'll be gone by October. And we'll be back to square one, with some cunt like potter in charge.
 
So what happens if we finish 4th? (quite feasible)

Will the doomers still have Ange's head on the chopping block or will they do a complete about face?
If we finished 4th i'd feel much the way that i will if we finish 5th with 64/66 pts. That he cant be sacked for that return but i dont think he's the bloke to lead us on, that he'll find it very difficult next season and it will resemble more the 2nd half of this season than our first 10 games.
 
Yeah mate, we are on a downward trend, it's concerning but let's get to the Summer shall we, we are limping over the line but let's get over the line and assess where we are.

For the record I think if we're don't get top 4 next season he will be gone, only if he's managed to bag the Carabao and were on for the FA and Europa he'll survive but there needs to be legit progress next season and our board want that CL money.
I think another run of defeats early doors might end Ange before next season ends. I mean look at what happened to Nuno, maybe he should have gotten two seasons?
 
I actually agree. The use of cultists was to reflect the use of doomers. That post was to illustrate the ridiculousness of the original post.

People aren’t changing their opinions in the next few games.

Fair enough, totally on board with that.

Fanbois, apologists, doomers, cultists, melters - all that kind of language is merely causing more arguments and stifling genuine discussion/debate (and I'm very much guilty of that, hence I'm trying to roll back from that kind of behaviour).

:tanguythumb:
 
If we finished 4th i'd feel much the way that i will if we finish 5th with 64/66 pts. That he cant be sacked for that return but i dont think he's the bloke to lead us on, that he'll find it very difficult next season and it will resemble more the 2nd half of this season than our first 10 games.
He might not be the bloke to lead us on, but at the very least he's the bloke to transition us out of low block defensive murderball. Unless we start off next season with a horrific run there's no point getting rid unless we've identified a coach who can build on it and not make some sort of panicked reactionary appointment, otherwise the rebuild will truly never end.
 
He might not be the bloke to lead us on, but at the very least he's the bloke to transition us out of low block defensive murderball. Unless we start off next season with a horrific run there's no point getting rid unless we've identified a coach who can build on it and not make some sort of panicked reactionary appointment, otherwise the rebuild will truly never end.
Maybe. But how long will that wash with the fans in the ground if we're 8th or 9th in October and not looking any better. You'd hope with the football set up we now have they'd realise not to appoint someone at the complete opposite end of the scale again but guess it depends who is available if it does go pear shaped early on.
 
That's likely as well, he needs to have a relatively good start and we need some consistency.
Actually I can see a comparison between Ange and Nuno, Ange was hired because of his success at Celtic, otherwise we probably would never of even thought about him.

Nuno had a good Wolves team that he got promoted IIRC lots of quality Potruguese players/internationals et al, Mendes dealings etc much better than Champo team's players and even most of the PL, Those players made Nuno look better than he actually was, just like Celtic with Ange had better players than most of the Premiership in Scotland by some distance.

He's now set up our team as if we're so much better than all our rivals, the results since November say otherwise but he's just sticking with it. We're actually lucky that United and Newcastle have slumped compared to last season or we'd now be in a dog fight with Chelsea for 7th spot.
 
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Actually I can see a comparison between Ange and Nuno, Ange was hired because of his success at Celtic, otherwise we probably would never of even thought about him.

Nuno had a good Wolves team that he got promoted IIRC lots of quality Potruguese players/internationals et al, Mendes dealings etc much better than Champo team's players and even most of the PL, Those players made Nuno look better than he actually was, just like Celtic with Ange had better players than most of the Premiership in Scotland by some distance.

He's now set up our team as if we're so much better than all our rivals, the results since November say otherwise but he's just sticking with it. We're actually lucky that United and Newcastle have slumped compated to last season or we'd be 7th now and in a dog fight with Chelsea for 7th spot.

Nuno was hired due to desperation, Ange was hired by choice and backed.

Hence why we won't sack him.

It's hilarious that we're lucky that Newcastle and Utd slumped but they're not lucky we're doing the same thing now OK then, good thing there's a league table to measure where you deserve to finish at the end of the season isn't it.
 
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Nuno was hired due to desperation, Ange was hired by choice and backed.

Hence why we won't sack him.

It's hilarious that we're lucky that Newcastle and Utd slumped but they're not lucky we're doing the same thing now OK then., good thing there's.a league table to measure where you deserve to finish at the end of the season isn't it.
Well we haven't slumped in the league compared to last season but by this time Conte and Stellini were sacked and we had Mason as manager IIRC.

I'd say that only Villa are (so far) lucky we've slumped during this season. as I said if United and Newcastle had their form of last season we'd now be 7th. We're on 60pts about the same as last season but United and Newcaslte had 70+ points come the end. We won't get that many points this season.

Yes you're right what you say about Nuno vs Ange but my point stands that they both achieved their prior success due to having better players than most of their opposition. I mean it's not like Ange was operating on a budget which was level to his rivals in Scotland.

Take all the Mendes players out of that Wolves team and Nuno would never have been hired by us, give Ange the same budget as Dundee FC in the Scottish premiership and ditto.
 
Well we haven't slumped in the league compared to last season but by this time Conte and Stellini were sacked and we had Mason as manager IIRC.

I'd say that only Villa are (so far) lucky we've slumped during this season. as I said if United and Newcastle had their form of last season we'd now be 7th. We're on 60pts about the same as last season but United and Newcaslte had 70+ points come the end. We won't get that many points this season.

Yes you're right what you say about Nuno vs Ange but my point stands that they both achieved their prior success due to having better players than most of their opposition. I mean it's not like Ange was operating on a budget which was level to his rivals in Scotland.

Take all the Mendes players out of that Wolves team and Nuno would never have been hired by us, give Ange the same budget as Dundee FC in Scotland and ditto.

If Auntie had balls etc...

Measuring our points tally now based on out opponents points tally last season is a reach, come on now.

Absolutely pointless talking about Nuno, he was a last minute choice was always a stop gap for a better manager, he wasn't hired by design at all.
 
Absolutely pointless talking about Nuno, he was a last minute choice was always a stop gap for a better manager, he wasn't hired by design at all.
But we'd have never have hired Nuno if he didn't have all those Mendes players that made him look better than he was. And we'd never have hired Ange if his Celtic team had a similar budget than the rest of the teams in the Scottish Premiership. Because neither of them would have had such success or appeared on our radar.
 
I don’t agree with this narrative of yours, mate. Let’s take a look back at our managers.

Redknapp - came in, steered us away from relegation and finished top half. Spent a few seasons at Spurs before he was linked with England job and we bottled 3rd place. At the end of that season he got sacked. Was it harsh? Maybe.

AVB - finished 5th in his first season, but we played a lot of passive football, Bale saved our bacon time and time again. After Bale left, we were beaten left and right and AVB got sacked. He barely produced much as manager afterwards anyway. So was sack justified? Probably.

Sherwood - stop gap.

Pochettino - no need to discuss, just that was his sacking justified? I’d say at the time of it, I think it was because we weren’t getting results and our football was becoming sterile for a while. Maybe he should’ve been afforded the season as transition and see where we’d end up, after all he’s probably earned it after all he’s done for the club.

Mourinho - washed up imo, initial managerial bounce then shit. Sacking him before the League Cup final is seen as a capital sin, personally I think it wouldn’t have made a difference, we were trash under him.

Mason - stop gap.

Nuno - banter appointment. Most people knew it wasn’t going to work. Don’t know if Levy/Paratici thought it was a stop gap until Conte agreed to take over, but imo Nuno should’ve never been hired. It was a farce how long it took them to get us a manager and when they did, it was fucking Nuno.

Conte - very bright start of his Spurs stint, finished top 4, but in the second season people started to moan about the football and his rigid tactics. His post-Southampton press conference probably sealed his faith, I think he wouldn’t have been sacked if he didn’t criticize the players and the board in public. Who knows what might’ve happened after that, our fans said Conte never wanted to be here and he wanted the sack, so in a way he had to go?

Stellini + Mason - lol.

Postecoglou - came in, we started the season very well and although he’s had to deal with injuries, the football we played gradually became worse. We lost 4 in a row against two injury depleted sides where we played like shit. Doesn’t want to adjust his tactics to accomodate players. Needs money to make his system work. Sounds a bit like Conte, doesn’t it?

So overall, it’s not like we sacked managers simply because we hit a bumpy road and said fuck it, let’s give someone else in. Our managers didn’t look like they could turn it around. And on top of that, you could argue some appointments have been completely wrong to begin with.

So yeah, would we “sack” Postecoglou simply because we can’t handle some defeats? No, it’s because the progress under him has been minimal and the signs look like he’s hit a point where he might not be able to turn it around.
Excellent post. Sums up my thoughts well.

I wouldn’t sack him yet though. Gut feeling says we need a bit more time. If he starts the next season like he is finishing this one he’ll be in trouble though
 
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