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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
I get a lot of the frustrations with Ange, and there are undoubted issues with some of his approach to tactical setup and substitutions.

But I do still quite like him and back him (I’d probably class myself as wanting to see more before making any rash decisions),The root of a lot of this was the summer though - I just don’t think we had a particularly strong transfer window and we’re really paying the price.

From what I’ve read some of that is on Ange and he’s backed himself too aggressively to polish up some diamonds and not realised the elite level of the PL IMO, but the club haven’t helped either.

For me this is particularly evident in the attacking areas (most of the GK and defensive signings have been decent).

None of Johnson, Solanke or Son (current version) are elite level players and it shows when you watch us play. Odebert is young and TBC, Moore is all potential and Werner isn’t of the required level.

If you compare our attacking options to the clubs in and around us we fall short. Our team would be sooo different with a Salah or a Saka in the side who is a consistent and constant threat to opposing full backs, but also offers a great outlet when under pressure.

I expect the inevitable retort of how many goals we’ve scored, but I don’t think that’s a particularly nuanced way of assessing what goes on in every game. Those attackers contribute to us turning over the ball and allowing dangerous counters time after time.

They also don’t pose enough of a threat to low block defences which we are seeing regularly setup against us.

The big myth is that Spurs have become a spending team over the last few years so board criticism isn’t fair. The reality is whilst transfer spend outlay has been refreshingly high, we’ve avoided anyone on chunky wages to prop up the books and that’s why we still have huge amounts of FFP margin and our wage to turnover ratio is so low.

A 65m player on 150k pw costs much less than a 45m player on 300k pw over a 5 year contract. Attacking signings like Johnson, Werner and Solanke haven’t really been game changers for us in any way.

If you look at this summers signings in particular, only Solanke has made any impact so far, and thus I did think 5th - 7th is where we’d be this season before we got started and that’s looking accurate.

As I said above, I think Ange has some culpability in that but as a club we were ineffective this summer and we’re paying the price currently.

I’m willing to cut Ange some slack because I don’t think our squad is particularly great……

That is very well put.
I agree with everything that is said here. I was critical of the window already during and right after the window.

But one thing that I would add or point out is that Ange knows what he needs for his system to work.
Why was he then content with only adding 20 yo Odobert to the mix?!? He was working with all the players in previous season. And he is only one who knows to what extent he is willing to change the tactical setup and gameplan (close to 0).

I mean with this crop of players, I am pretty sure that best way to play is 5-3-2.
As you pointed out - current way of playing expects that forward players should have good ball retention ability. Only Solanke qualifies for that. On top of that we have 2 players who are finishers but not so much creators in Son and Johnson. Most logical is to pair them up and have Solanke feeding balls to lethal finishers. Let fullbacks REALLY overlap and provide the wing-play.

Yet we keep playing to our players weaknesses not strong sides (0 change) and at the same time we did not make required moves in the market and according to Ange "were working to land Odobert from the start" or whatever.

I mean I am all for investing into youth. But it has to come with BALANCED approach for the players that can contribute now. We needed starting level winger so obviously and so badly...
 
That is very well put.
I agree with everything that is said here. I was critical of the window already during and right after the window.

But one thing that I would add or point out is that Ange knows what he needs for his system to work.
Why was he then content with only adding 20 yo Odobert to the mix?!? He was working with all the players in previous season. And he is only one who knows to what extent he is willing to change the tactical setup and gameplan (close to 0).

I mean with this crop of players, I am pretty sure that best way to play is 5-3-2.
As you pointed out - current way of playing expects that forward players should have good ball retention ability. Only Solanke qualifies for that. On top of that we have 2 players who are finishers but not so much creators in Son and Johnson. Most logical is to pair them up and have Solanke feeding balls to lethal finishers. Let fullbacks REALLY overlap and provide the wing-play.

Yet we keep playing to our players weaknesses not strong sides (0 change) and at the same time we did not make required moves in the market and according to Ange "were working to land Odobert from the start" or whatever.

I mean I am all for investing into youth. But it has to come with BALANCED approach for the players that can contribute now. We needed starting level winger so obviously and so badly...
We had a great window for the under 19 squad if we bought them for that , not so much for a hard premier league campaign
 
Apart from the fact that there hasn’t been an injury crisis all season, yet these same results and patterns have persisted regardless. Let’s not pretend this is some sudden development or an excuse for the performances we’ve been seeing for months.

We aren't talking about the season as a whole are we? We are discussing this specific Press conference after a game where Spurs had more than half their team out. Postecoglou hasn't brought up injuries once this season - he did this time. When:

Vicario
Romero
Van Den Ven
Bentancur
Odobert
Richarlison
Moore
Solanke

Were all unavailable due to injury, illness or suspension.

So let's not try and pretend you're not shifting the goalposts just because you were called out for an overwrought hysterical reaction to what was a perfectly normal and rational answer by any manager in this type of situation.


What we’re witnessing isn’t just bad luck with injuries—it’s a manager desperately deflecting criticism to protect himself at the expense of the football club.

What on earth? How's his presser come "at the expense of the club" :roflmao: He's legiimately in the middle of an injury crisis. Any manager ever would say the same. Blimey!

And frankly, your attempt to frame my criticism as though I’m acting like he’s personally spat in my face is just another layer of deflection. The reality is, this isn’t about personal offense at all—it’s about standards that I expect from this football club and the manager of it.

I wrote what I wrote because, imo, he doesn’t deserve to be the manager of this football club (like I said, others have been sacked for far less) and it’s frankly insulting to see people continuously handwave his behavior.

I'm framing your criticism in this specific instance as overwrought, hysterical and lacking any sort of coherence whatsoever.

I have no problem with you wanting Ange Out or not thinking his results are good enough etc etc... He's lost football games. He's lost your trust. Fine. What I responded to was the ridiculous essay you wrote criticising his Presser like it was a personal affront to you.

And you're still acting like he personally took a dump in your cornflakes and told you to thank him for it!

He just pointed out we have loads of injuries - when we do, indeed, have loads of injuries. Any manager would do the same - especially when they are under pressure for their jobs. Chill the fuck out. He isn't rogering your sister!

How can anyone justify this level of protection for a manager who has delivered so little for us at this point? I’ve never seen a fanbase bend over backward like this for someone whose achievements here are nonexistent, you could argue that we are objectively worse results wise despite playing "better football" Perhaps the real question is: why are you so determined to defend the indefensible?

What "level of protection" ffs :roflmao: He's 18 months into his contract.

Some people are just fucking bored of the constant sacking of managers - with no improvement from one to the next and none of whom given even a minimum amount of time to build. It's not "defending the indefensible" - it's trying to be a normal club for once. We aren't in a relegation fight and, as far as we know, he hasn't lost the dressing room.

Conte, Mourinho, Poch, AVB, Redknapp, Jol... Sack after sack after sack. It's FUCKING BORING :levyeyes:
 
Well I think the job is pretty much mission impossible right now

Ref Nuno , I did not like the style of football . However Marinakis has chucked money at Forest and has taken them from Championship strugglers to 6th in the league . Chelsea were way behind us and now are well ahead , same with Woolwich . I will be surprised if United don’t overtake us soon .

The facts are pretty clear the clubs that spend money and especially on salaries are the most successful over a sustained period . I doubt Forest stay there this season but there improvement is financial support of the manager driven.

I believe we are squeezing salaries and recruiting kids, so no I don’t think we are guaranteed the next guy does any better . If we want success we have to invest accordingly and we won’t

Ok, I try to keep it short here... just that your answer is bullshit.

Our wagebill is vastly bigger than Nottingham, Brighton, Brendford, Fulham etc. Yet these are the sides that surround us.

Our wage bill - 105 million
Brighton (3 points ahead of us) - 60,7 million
Nottingham (2 points ahead) - 63,5 million
Brendford (equal points) - 41,5 million (!) just less than 40% of our salary bill (!!)
Fulham (1 point behind, drew us and had xG of 1,35 to 0,7 yesterday) - 68,4 million.

All of the sides had AT LEAST 35% lower salary bill.

So we are BADLY underperforming under that metric too.
So please, roll on the next excuse for our performances - this one does not stand.
 
For me I can just see the progress. Maybe my expectations going into this Ange era was alot lower than other fans who seem in utter disbeleif that we are not currently 2nd in the league. Because we are only 5 points off second even though they can all name the same 4 awful results
For me I can accept losing but not losing or drawing because of poor ball retention, predictable attacks time and time again, leaving wide open spaces for teams to exploit. Especially when we are ahead with 10 minutes to go!
These things are down to the manager. Pushing players to hard, being blinkered in his approach, not seeing when players are flagging and not altering the formation and instructing the players to shut up shop.
 
I have some doubts for sure. His in game management is questionable and he doesn't show much passion on the touchline.

But overall, I think the football is brilliant and we can go places with this style. I don't buy into the idea that his football is not sustainable or teams have found us out. Indivdual errors, not having decent back up players and a lack of leadership are the things we need to work on. Not his style.

I think we can beat anyone in the league on a going day and thats enough for me to be happy with him. Oddly enough, every Spurs fan always says they'd love to finish 10th but win a cup. I feel like this is what might happen this year
We also lose to anyone and that's not filling anyone with cheer.
 
Ok, I try to keep it short here... just that your answer is bullshit.

Our wagebill is vastly bigger than Nottingham, Brighton, Brendford, Fulham etc. Yet these are the sides that surround us.

Our wage bill - 105 million
Brighton (3 points ahead of us) - 60,7 million
Nottingham (2 points ahead) - 63,5 million
Brendford (equal points) - 41,5 million (!) just less than 40% of our salary bill (!!)
Fulham (1 point behind, drew us and had xG of 1,35 to 0,7 yesterday) - 68,4 million.

All of the sides had AT LEAST 35% lower salary bill.

So we are BADLY underperforming under that metric too.
So please, roll on the next excuse for our performances - this one does not stand.

Sorry but our wage bill is the 7th highest in the league and we are currently 7th


It's relative to everyone else including the teams who should be above us based on wages so if Brighton and Forest are ahead of us then you need to take into consideration the fact that we are ahead of Villa and Utd.

Anyway considering league placings changes regularly it's a bit daft to be citing our current performance compared to wage bills as some sort of indicator, the only time you can look at these sort of metrics are at the end of the season.
 
Ok, so what was the excuse when we went to Chelsea last season when they had 10+ injured and we were near as damnit full strength....and lost.

Why do we get to use injuries as an excuse when we lose, but ignore the fact we keep losing to teams also carrying big injuries?

The 11 we put out yesterday is good enough to beat Fulham. Man for man it is.
But we didn't and we should have lost comfortably but for the woodwork and decent saves.
Ange just isn't getting the best out of them, I fear for him if, we lose both league games this week.
Bournemouth will be up for it, especially because of the solanke thing and Chelsea, well the simply own us we couldn't beat their women's team.
 
Ok, I try to keep it short here... just that your answer is bullshit.

Our wagebill is vastly bigger than Nottingham, Brighton, Brendford, Fulham etc. Yet these are the sides that surround us.

Our wage bill - 105 million
Brighton (3 points ahead of us) - 60,7 million
Nottingham (2 points ahead) - 63,5 million
Brendford (equal points) - 41,5 million (!) just less than 40% of our salary bill (!!)
Fulham (1 point behind, drew us and had xG of 1,35 to 0,7 yesterday) - 68,4 million.

All of the sides had AT LEAST 35% lower salary bill.

So we are BADLY underperforming under that metric too.
So please, roll on the next excuse for our performances - this one does not stand.
I used the word sustained deliberately , I even said Forest would not stay there . Pretty clear as I intimated Chelsea and Woolwich have muscled their way past us . Liverpool were behind us under Gillette and Hicks , United are a basket case and have won two trophies under Ten Hag . Things will always fluctuate on a season by season basis , but the clubs that pay the highest salaries will be the most successful over any sustained period.
We don’t pay enough to compete for trophies , I frankly don’t give a shit exactly where we finish 6-12th as it means nothing . So I would sooner stick with Ange and enjoy watching us play , than go through another pointless destined to fail rebuild
 
Sorry but our wage bill is the 7th highest in the league and we are currently 7th


It's relative to everyone else including the teams who should be above us based on wages so if Brighton and Forest are ahead of us then you need to take into consideration the fact that we are ahead of Villa and Utd.

Anyway considering league placings changes regularly it's a bit daft to be citing our current performance compared to wage bills as some sort of indicator, the only time you can look at these sort of metrics are at the end of the season.

League has a lot more money and ambitious owners than before. We could sometimes rely on the league being crap like when AVB and Sherwood got 5th. The league depth is by far the most it has ever been. Clubs like Brighton with Dortmund level scouting, half decent managers at almost every club. You can’t just fall into 3-5th anymore.

It’s a much more competitive situation and we need to find an edge like we did with Pochettino and that group. Going down the route of young players is fine but I think we needed 3-4 more senior players to go with it. Can’t help injuries but you need to expect them.
 
I used the word sustained deliberately , I even said Forest would not stay there . Pretty clear as I intimated Chelsea and Woolwich have muscled their way past us . Liverpool were behind us under Gillette and Hicks , United are a basket case and have won two trophies under Ten Hag . Things will always fluctuate on a season by season basis , but the clubs that pay the highest salaries will be the most successful over any sustained period.
We don’t pay enough to compete for trophies , I frankly don’t give a shit exactly where we finish 6-12th as it means nothing . So I would sooner stick with Ange and enjoy watching us play , than go through another pointless destined to fail rebuild

10th, good football and an FA cup win would beat every season under ENIC apart from probably 2 of Pochettino’s and 1 of Redknapp’s. I like you don’t care about finishing 5-6th and winning fuck all.
 
League has a lot more money and ambitious owners than before. We could sometimes rely on the league being crap like when AVB and Sherwood got 5th. The league depth is by far the most it has ever been. Clubs like Brighton with Dortmund level scouting, half decent managers at almost every club. You can’t just fall into 3-5th anymore.

It’s a much more competitive situation and we need to find an edge like we did with Pochettino and that group. Going down the route of young players is fine but I we needed 3-4 more senior players to go with it. Can’t help injuries but you need to expect them.

Quite frankly you can't afford mis steps in your player and managerial recruitment anymore because there's about 5/6 clubs who are able to take advantage, I think maybe 5 years or so ago you could afford to do it but these days these days it's incredibly competitive.

We're missing a beat in not upping our wage bill, that's where the current gap is...only so many times you can keep trying to churn out gems, it's not always going to work.
 

We should go for Paul McKenna that knobhead who writes all those self help books like I can make you rich .

See if i can make you premier league champions is in his locker .

Nothing is changing no matter who we get in , finishing 7th or 9th or 10th is no big difference , even if 7th with the right domestic cup results gets ECL qualification.
 
Losing at Home to Ipswich certainly isn't or losing at Palace. Beating a city team who have lost the last 6 games, (except an embarrassing home draw with with Feyenoord) isn't unusual for us.
Let's face it, the summer recruitment was a bit of a disaster.
Recruiting young talent is great when the team is already set up. But the team was in free fall towards the back end of last season and hung on for 5th.
Considering the form that wasn't bad but, the team needed some good players who are ready now, we got solanke and that's it, the rest all promising youngsters.
The club had effectively has said, nah we ain't interested in competing at the top end, we are going to save money on the wage bill and then, wait 4or 5 years to see if they suddenly become good.
If any are, they will look to move away to try and be a success because success is Tottenhams enemy.
 
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