Manager Ange Postecoglou

[MemphisWill]

No such thing as PochBall is there. You get what you deserve on TFC.

Ange is a fucking genius. He deserves 3x as many pages!!

However I will put this thread on ignore today and then come back the day after the Europa league final to see 10k pages of Ange adulation.

Be good to have a break from everyone discussing this Greek God of a man.

Ange Postegodlou!!!

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TBF, winning the EL would make him our most successful manager since Burkinshaw. So he'd deserve those pages.

 

[existenzrippchen]

So they are more conservative now in a second leg semifinal but it was okay to chuck both into starting the game against Chelsea?

As always fucking ridiculous.

 

[Don Pedro]

Hey Don, I’ve seen your enthusiasm wax and slightly wane over this season. Seems a kinda barometer for me - when I saw you in the wane I was thinking ‘yep we fkd’
But here we are. Our club is looking like it’s got a culture change happening and that’s likely the best thing that Angelos will be remembered for.
Maybe a cup or two, but change the culture of the inner workings of THFC - fucking hell, that is something else altogether

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Yeah agreed. I do think we are laying very good foundations and the future is bright.

Its so hard as a supporter to keep a level head when your team is losing every week and the media are just making a joke out of us every time. Its hard not fall into their trap! This place doesn't help either as the toxicity is almost contagious after a defeat with everyone just aiming to be more dramatic than the last poster. Us supporters are too emotional and its very hard to sit back and appreciate the bigger picture. It usually takes me 2 or 3 days after a game to process what happened without emotion and see the bigger picture.

 

[Dudski]

Ange doesn’t play low block tactics because that’s what all the shit teams sitting in the bottom half of table day do. Shit teams like Leicester, Ipswich, Palace, Everton , Wolves have all managed to beat and outsmart Spurs with these amazing tactics, yet find themselves sitting near or in the relegation zone.

Low block tight defence tactics don’t create sustainable winning cultures or win trophies. Especially if you think you’re a top 4 team like most deluded Spurs fans do, then low block isn’t going to cut it. The best teams that win things score goals, then score more goals. They don’t park the bus and then try to manage the game like all the bottom half managers facing relegation do.

Low block might work if you’re trying to avoid relegation, but it’s a recipe for at best, mediocrity. Spurs are trying to win things, so that means being brave and taking risks. Sadly those risks have resulted in below average performances and sitting bottom half of the table, but is that the managers fault or injuries? One could argue that Ange should have adapted tactics given all the injuries, but the thing that frightens him the most , the thing that keeps him up at night, is the idea that “sometimes defending in a low block is required by every team” will seep its way into the consciousness of the players. And once that happens that is the end of Ange ball and the Ange project. So he chooses to uphold his culture and values for long term goals over short term pragmatism.

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Throughout the history of football players have adapted to various strategies within games because successful teams meet the challenges that various situations present. If you have to take a more defensive posture in a game that doesn't mean you can't go back to being aggressive when the opponent or game state requires it. This idea that you ignore the opponent and game state is bizarre. Spurs have bought into this idea so I guess we'll have to give it another year. Next season I suppose there will be a whole new set of excuses.

 

[Bill-bao Bob]

Jesus, you can see the agendas in the questions from today's presser...

You had to convince Mathys Tel to join after he seemed to reject the club beforehand?
Are you 100% convinced Tel wants to be here?
Can you tell us that Danso and Tel were long-term targets and not reactionary?
Last year you went out of both domestic cups early and bemoaned not enough fixtures, this year, are you playing too many?
You're 1-0 up going to Anfield in a big game, is the game when you have to tweak things and change your philosophy?

Dunno how he puts up with some of them tbh!

 

[Hoddle2Waddle]

People make a big deal of "Ange conversation with Tel". Basically, Bayern told him and his agent that they need to find a move, loan or permanent. The move was out there for weeks and clubs knew about this. The race was on. He knew he had to move, and he and his agent dragged it in hope of him getting a move to his preferred club, ManU, otherwise, Chlesea, or AV as last resort since they play in the CL. None of these tree clubs was interested. Bayern told him he is not going to get play time and need to make decision. The only option left was Tottenham, so at the last day he accepted it. Not degrading our club, but it was just a case of a player who was told to find a move, he tried to get his dream move, but not all dreams turn reality. So, he accepted his fate (he might asked for the conversation with Ange to make sure of playing time) and took what is out there available to him. The fantasy of Angel Ange touched his heart and made him dump ManU and all his dreams to come (not to Tottenham) to play for Ange is as close to a pipe dream as these is.

 

[Mince Charming]

People make a big deal of "Ange conversation with Tel". Basically, Bayern told him and his agent that they need to find a move, loan or permanent. The move was out there for weeks and clubs knew about this. The race was on. He knew he had to move, and he and his agent dragged it in hope of him getting a move to his preferred club, ManU, otherwise, Chlesea, or AV as last resort since they play in the CL. None of these tree clubs was interested. Bayern told him he is not going to get play time and need to make decision. The only option left was Tottenham, so at the last day he accepted it. Not degrading our club, but it was just a case of a player who was told to find a move, he tried to get his dream move, but not all dreams turn reality. So, he accepted his fate (he might asked for the conversation with Ange to make sure of playing time) and took what is out there available to him. The fantasy of Angel Ange touched his heart and made him dump ManU and all his dreams to come (not to Tottenham) to play for Ange is as close to a pipe dream as these is.

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And I guess all the other players like Vicario, Maddison, VDV plus several at Celtic who publicly stated that their conversations with Postecoglou helped sway their decision, were also all rejected by every other club in Europe and simply had to settle like Tel?

A helpful suggestion: use your brain instead of mindlessly believing everything you hear in the media.

 

[Phomesy]

People make a big deal of "Ange conversation with Tel". Basically, Bayern told him and his agent that they need to find a move, loan or permanent. The move was out there for weeks and clubs knew about this. The race was on. He knew he had to move, and he and his agent dragged it in hope of him getting a move to his preferred club, ManU, otherwise, Chlesea, or AV as last resort since they play in the CL. None of these tree clubs was interested. Bayern told him he is not going to get play time and need to make decision. The only option left was Tottenham, so at the last day he accepted it. Not degrading our club, but it was just a case of a player who was told to find a move, he tried to get his dream move, but not all dreams turn reality. So, he accepted his fate (he might asked for the conversation with Ange to make sure of playing time) and took what is out there available to him. The fantasy of Angel Ange touched his heart and made him dump ManU and all his dreams to come (not to Tottenham) to play for Ange is as close to a pipe dream as these is.

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Hoddle2Waddle after a quick cuddle and whisper in his ear from Big Ange...

 

[Shadydan]

People make a big deal of "Ange conversation with Tel". Basically, Bayern told him and his agent that they need to find a move, loan or permanent. The move was out there for weeks and clubs knew about this. The race was on. He knew he had to move, and he and his agent dragged it in hope of him getting a move to his preferred club, ManU, otherwise, Chlesea, or AV as last resort since they play in the CL. None of these tree clubs was interested. Bayern told him he is not going to get play time and need to make decision. The only option left was Tottenham, so at the last day he accepted it. Not degrading our club, but it was just a case of a player who was told to find a move, he tried to get his dream move, but not all dreams turn reality. So, he accepted his fate (he might asked for the conversation with Ange to make sure of playing time) and took what is out there available to him. The fantasy of Angel Ange touched his heart and made him dump ManU and all his dreams to come (not to Tottenham) to play for Ange is as close to a pipe dream as these is.

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Yep this is definitely the thread where people post nonsense and not be held accountable

 

[Richard Arlison]

Jesus, you can see the agendas in the questions from today's presser...

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Yeah they ask the questions in these super friendly tones but you just know the narrative they want to spin from the answer.

You had to convince Mathys Tel to join after he seemed to reject the club beforehand?

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Seemed to reject based on a load of shit our colleagues possibly made up because we didn't know what was going on.

Are you 100% convinced Tel wants to be here?

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Just fuck off.

Can you tell us that Danso and Tel were long-term targets and not reactionary?

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This one I understand really because the answer leads to an more interesting story.

Last year you went out of both domestic cups early and bemoaned not enough fixtures, this year, are you playing too many?

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Bell end of a question. Basically whatever the man says you want to find a negative in it.

You're 1-0 up going to Anfield in a big game, is the game when you have to tweak things and change your philosophy?

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This one was treated with the disdain it deserved. Moose just keeps asking him that question. Something about a coach having principles just seems to be irresistible for Talksport.

Dunno how he puts up with some of them tbh!

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It is his job to put up with them. Reckon i could do it for the money he earns.

 

[justin]

Yeah agreed. I do think we are laying very good foundations and the future is bright.

Its so hard as a supporter to keep a level head when your team is losing every week and the media are just making a joke out of us every time. Its hard not fall into their trap! This place doesn't help either as the toxicity is almost contagious after a defeat with everyone just aiming to be more dramatic than the last poster. Us supporters are too emotional and its very hard to sit back and appreciate the bigger picture. It usually takes me 2 or 3 days after a game to process what happened without emotion and see the bigger picture.

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Future is bright ? Good foundations ? ……Jesus wept, we are fucking shite.

 

[Klaus]

Ange doesn’t play low block tactics because that’s what all the shit teams sitting in the bottom half of table day do. Shit teams like Leicester, Ipswich, Palace, Everton , Wolves have all managed to beat and outsmart Spurs with these amazing tactics, yet find themselves sitting near or in the relegation zone.

Low block tight defence tactics don’t create sustainable winning cultures or win trophies. Especially if you think you’re a top 4 team like most deluded Spurs fans do, then low block isn’t going to cut it. The best teams that win things score goals, then score more goals. They don’t park the bus and then try to manage the game like all the bottom half managers facing relegation do.

Low block might work if you’re trying to avoid relegation, but it’s a recipe for at best, mediocrity. Spurs are trying to win things, so that means being brave and taking risks. Sadly those risks have resulted in below average performances and sitting bottom half of the table, but is that the managers fault or injuries? One could argue that Ange should have adapted tactics given all the injuries, but the thing that frightens him the most , the thing that keeps him up at night, is the idea that “sometimes defending in a low block is required by every team” will seep its way into the consciousness of the players. And once that happens that is the end of Ange ball and the Ange project. So he chooses to uphold his culture and values for long term goals over short term pragmatism.

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Such waffle.

Teams much better than us that frequently employ a low or mid-block tactic over the past 2 seasons:

Woolwich
Newcastle
Villa

Outside England:

Atletico
Inter
Bayern

Historically:

Mourinho's Chelsea, Inter, and Real
Conte's Juve, Inter and Chelsea
Fergie's United for 20 years
Benitez trophy winning Valencia and Liverpool teams
Zidane's three CL winning Real
Ancelotti's current CL holders Real
Tuchel's CL winners Chelsea
Basically every international team that's ever won anything

Even high possession managers like Slot and Pep know when to sit back and protect a lead.

The idea that the only way to win top level football is constant high pressing high like idiots is an embarrassingly simple take.

 

[BJK]

This notion that he's insisting on a counterproductive approach that he actually knows is counterproductive on occasions, because all those short term sacrifices in the form of lost points would pay dividends in the long run, comes up a lot. It certainly makes a good narrative, and paints Ange in a good light as this benevolent leader who's putting himself on the line for the betterment of the club on a grand scale. I don't buy it though.

Managers know they will be gone sooner than later if they're not getting results, they're not stupid. Ange in particular must know that he won't get another shot at this level if he fails here. The aforementioned notion might make sense only under the assumption that Ange has some sort of a guarantee that he'll be here to reap the rewards of his work. But this guarantee obviously doesn't exist. So unless he's an exceptionally benevolent and altruistic person, he shouldn't be jeopardizing short term gains for supposedly even bigger long term gains. Gains that he has no certainty of obtaining himself.

Besides, is that hassle even necessary? He's not coaching a bunch of kids who might benefit greatly from having certain concepts and principles drilled into their heads from such a young age. Nor is there anything truly groundbreaking about Ange's approach. It seems like he took certain ideas that are becoming mainstream, and went nuclear with them for the sake of eccentricity.

High line, intense pressing, narrowing the pitch, ball retention, playing out from the back, creating overloads are indeed cool. We all get it at this point. He's preaching to the choir rather than revolutionizing this club or the game of football in general. More importantly, he's doing it at the expense of losing football matches and getting himself dangerously close to the sack. Makes zero sense from a cost-benefit perspective.

I don't see him playing any kind of a long game. He rather seems like he started to learn about game theory, stumbled upon this concept called dominant strategy, and decided to call it a day. He's not the sophisticated thinker that some think he is.

 

[Richard Arlison]

The idea that the only way to win top level football is constant high pressing high like idiots is an embarrassingly simple take.

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So is the idea that you can't win if you don't play a low block.

 

[Gazzapen]

That’s what they said about Fergie’s team…

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Are you really comparing Ange with Fergie?

 

[Gazzapen]

Ange doesn’t play low block tactics because that’s what all the shit teams sitting in the bottom half of table day do. Shit teams like Leicester, Ipswich, Palace, Everton , Wolves have all managed to beat and outsmart Spurs with these amazing tactics, yet find themselves sitting near or in the relegation zone.

Low block tight defence tactics don’t create sustainable winning cultures or win trophies. Especially if you think you’re a top 4 team like most deluded Spurs fans do, then low block isn’t going to cut it. The best teams that win things score goals, then score more goals. They don’t park the bus and then try to manage the game like all the bottom half managers facing relegation do.

Low block might work if you’re trying to avoid relegation, but it’s a recipe for at best, mediocrity. Spurs are trying to win things, so that means being brave and taking risks. Sadly those risks have resulted in below average performances and sitting bottom half of the table, but is that the managers fault or injuries? One could argue that Ange should have adapted tactics given all the injuries, but the thing that frightens him the most , the thing that keeps him up at night, is the idea that “sometimes defending in a low block is required by every team” will seep its way into the consciousness of the players. And once that happens that is the end of Ange ball and the Ange project. So he chooses to uphold his culture and values for long term goals over short term pragmatism.

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Guess Low Block is just as good as High line Ange Ball. Cause if I'm not mistaken, we zooming around the same area of the log as all those teams you mentioned. Added to that, we have a lot more injuries created by the Ange Ball.

 

[Dudski]

Are you really comparing Ange with Fergie?

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Spence. Kulu. Romero. Sonny. All publicly backing Ange.

Ange personally help recruit
Vicario
Maddison
Bergvall
Draguisin
Archie
Tel

Don’t think he’s going away as quickly as some would like.

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Mourinho and Conte both had players who talked positively about them, and it is not unusual for managers to help in recruiting. Credit where it is due, Postecoglou appears to be liked by players. That has not, so far, translated into wins. Also worth noting that Romero appears, by most accounts, open to leaving.

 

[Klaus]

So Eddie Howe dismantled Woolwich with a low-block 5-4-1 today. Second final for him in three years, as well as a Champions League campaign, and they're currently on track for another one next season. Funny what you can achieve with a bit of pragmatism once in a while.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

So Eddie Howe dismantled Woolwich with a low-block 5-4-1 today. Second final for him in three years, as well as a Champions League campaign, and they're currently on track for another one next season. Funny what you can achieve with a bit of pragmatism once in a while.

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He's achieved nothing and won fuck all.

 

[rusty83]

Throughout the history of football players have adapted to various strategies within games because successful teams meet the challenges that various situations present. If you have to take a more defensive posture in a game that doesn't mean you can't go back to being aggressive when the opponent or game state requires it. This idea that you ignore the opponent and game state is bizarre. Spurs have bought into this idea so I guess we'll have to give it another year. Next season I suppose there will be a whole new set of excuses.

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Yes but consistently successful sides don’t score one goal after 15 minutes and then go “durrrrrrrrr, lets low block defend for 75 minutes to preserve our lead durrrrrrrrr”. They might do in the final 10 minutes of a really really important game but 99% of the time they will stick to basic structure, formation and principles the coach sets out. Do you think City, Woolwich and Liverpool sit around a table and think “oh my god we’re playing Leicester on the weekend, let’s try to grab an early goal and then transition to defensive formation to counter the threat of Vardy”?

This idea that low block is this sophisticated tactical weapon deployed by the smartest most enlightened managers is fuckin daft. It’s most frequently used by teams in the bottom half struggling to score goals, so when they get one then they have no belief they can score another so they go into a defensive shell and try to hang on. Sometimes it works, but most of the time its shit teams in the bottom half who are the biggest proponents of it.

That it worked against Tottenham multiple times doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy, it means Tottenham don’t have good enough players or attacking tactics to break down tight defensive set ups. That may be on Ange as well. But given Spurs when full strength squad have had no problems scoring goals, I’m inclined to think injuries and lack of depth is the bigger issue. Players like Werner and Jonson are just so poor with the ball at their feet and can’t function in tight spaces. Bissouma, Bentacur and Sarr are also just really average and can’t compete with the star studded midfields of the best teams. Spurs need major investment in these areas if they are to take their own top 4, trophy hunting aspirations seriously.

At the end of the day it may just be that the players don’t fit Ange’s system and the players that do fit Ange’s system are the kinds of players that don’t want to play for Spurs or Spurs can’t afford. In that case, it may be better for Spurs to ditch Ange and bring someone who is more tactically versatile and plays according to the players strengths and makes adjustments as circumstances dictate . But while it may get Spurs into a slightly better position in the table, it will absolutely not get them closer to winning trophies on the regular.