Would you still be spending so much time supporting Postecoglou if the team hadn't won the Europa League Cup final? Has that flukey goal, VdV,s goalmouth clearance, and Vicario's save late in the match turned Postecoglou into a better manager?
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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I'm not sure I'm saying that.
But the last two seasons have been anomalous. I can't think of any managers that could have dealt with the injuries we've had over the last two season, combined with the hideous squad imbalance we've put together, that would have been a "success".
Particularly last season. Having 4 of your starting Back 5 miss more than 3 months would be a catastrophic blow to any team and manager in the world.
But Conte couldn't get this to work and he had prime Kane and Son. At some point you just have to face the facts and draw rational conclusions. This fanbase always thinks the next magic Pochettino is around the corner. But it was Kane that made Pochettino magic. Not the other way around
I gave Frank the exact same grace as I gave Ange - I was one of the last to switch to "Frank Out" because I had to sadly conclude we were in a relegation battle and that was my criteria for changing managers.
I defended Frank a lot before that from the usual "he chews gum he's a cunt" type posts this forum likes to deal in when things go bad.
And I'm in the Ange thread (which I didn't post in for 6 months once Frank was hired - until he was fired) because he won us a fucking European Trophy that I was lucky enough to attend.
When facing the prospect of Doncaster away in August I retreat to a happy place. that okay with you?
Jesus Christ, your takes just keep getting worse and worse. Probably best to wrap this up, we're not living in the same reality.
IIRC Frank was about 1 point per game when he got sacked, so the same as Postecoglou and still in European competition and doing well.
The main difference between the two seasons is the team in 18th position this season is stronger than the team in 18th position last season, meaning there is a real danger of relegation.
I don't see anything to suggest that our team would be any further up the league this season than it is now if Postecoglou was manager, we can use last season as a perfect example.
The obvious difference was Ange was tanking,frank was just garbage and his football was insufferable
Presumably he would simply walk on the surface of the water and get back to shore .
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Did you enjoy our league matches last season?
I remember the supporter yelling at him ''what was that?'' at the end of one game. We were awful.
They wouldn’t, the boring fuckers would say we didn’t give him enough time. Look at the excuses they’ve made for him failing to win a single game at Forest who arguably have a better spine than we do. They’d just claim the xG was high, he couldn’t get his methods across, the weather was bad..
It’s never his fault.
What a load of bollocks, your taking the piss surely?
Because unlike Postecoglou, Frank left with a complete breakdown of the manager-player relationship. The message he sent the players was that they were shit, and the players responded in kind. There was never any coherent pattern or philosophy in his style of play, other than to be fearful of the opposition. He was the complete anti-thesis of his predecessor.
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Yes I think those things do make him a better manager. Those are the one percenters that a good manager can extract from players. It literally is the difference between a manager that is a multiple trophy winner, and one that has won not one.
If you want more evidence, look at our season: players being accused of not caring, not putting in 100%. The complete opposite of leaving it all on the pitch like VdV's clearance and Vicario's late save.
Not sure I really see how it's a better squad than last season.
Keepers you went from Vic, Forster, Austin, Whiteman and Kinsky (from January) to Vic, Kinsky and Austin, less depth but not massively important.
CBs we went from Romero, VDV, Dragusin, Davies and Danso(from January) to Romero, VDV, Danso, Davies and Dragusin (who was out until Christmas), not a massive difference there.
Fullbacks we went from Udogie, Spence, Porro and Reguilon to Udogie, Spence and Porro with Souza arriving early Feb, probably weaker there.
CM we had Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Bentancur & Biss for Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Bentancur, Palhinha with Biss out until Jan and Gallager joining in Jan so only really stronger from Jan onwards.
Attacking mid we went from Maddison and Kulu to Xavi which has been a disaster if we're being honest.
Wings we went from Johnson, Son, Moore, Werner, Odobert and Tel (from January) to Johnson (until sold in January), Odobert, Kudus, Kolo Muani and Tel. Werner certainly contributed more than RKM so guess that depends on if you rate Kudus above Son but probably a downgrade there.
CF we went from Richy and Solanke to Richy and a Solanke that was out intil January.
Where are people seeing the better squad?
If it was a manager like Alex Ferguson who won shit loads over a long period I could see the reasoning behind supporters hailing him even years after leaving the club.
This thread is being used as a celebration and wrongful dismissal protest about a manager of a scrappy win in a cup final against the worst Manchester United team in living memory, coming 17th in the league, and having lots of injuries.
The trophy is what matters. Those things were crucial in winning it. If they didn't happen and nothing else changed then we don't win it. But we didn't experience that hyopothetical, its in another past or timeline that we do not live in so is pointless thinking about.
It’s pathetic. Honestly.
We did well in Europe last season the same way we did this season. Europe is just different. We’ve got appointments wrong again but us getting things wrong doesn’t suddenly make Ange great.
All we’re seeing this season is what happens when you make this squad play CL instead of EL and also take away Maddison, Kulu and Son (and Solanke most of the season) from the attack and replace it with Simon’s who hasn’t adapted.
Those three were absolutely crucial to any points we got under Ange last season. Ange also benefitted from a weaker league with 3 extremely poor relegated sides - Forest & West Ham are much stronger opposition.
We were going nowhere under him. He won his EL and it was 100% the right time to part ways. They just can’t accept it.
I’m not a little Ange creep mate. It’s an opinion, I don’t sit around kissing a poster of him.
But look where we are now, with pretty much the same players as you have pointed out, getting relegated
I’d take him back in a heartbeat over anyone we’ve had since or are linked with currently
Frank will go down as the worst manager we’ve ever had at this club
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When Frank was sacked we were higher in the league than Ange had us. He had no Maddison, Kulu or Son, no Solanke for most of that time (that was probably like 80% or Ange’s league goals) and had to contend with champions league instead of Europa.
Pining for Ange is ridiculous. He finished 17th & lost 22 games. We are linked to Poch and De Zerbi who are much better premier league coaches than he is. Ange has won 1 in 19 of his last managed league games, Ange took over a decent forest team and failed to win a game, Ange is not the fucking man to take over and guide us to safety. He loses premier league matches for fun because they aren’t Bodo or AZ.
It was Vicario's lapse that meant that VdV had to clear the ball, so according to your theory, Vicario must have done it to make VdV look good for Postecoglou?