He’s decent enough. But he is a cheap loan punt. That’s the fact. There were, I feel, better options out there who are not as glamorous or Brazilian, but were likely too expensive or disregarded for the wrong reasons. Barnes / Wickham for two examples
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Then which strikers do you think would perform well under our current system ?
Even if Kane could hardly touch the ball in the opposite side of the field.
In the PL, Kane has 12 goals 11 assists in the same system.
The more limited a player is, the more he would have to depend on the system and other players around him. Vinicius is simply a very limited player, playing on a team with a lot of limited players in a limited system.
Exactly my thought. How can you even evaluate him if he gets one or two chances per game in the rare occasion that he gets to play? Not fair. I am not saying he is a great player. I am saying we have no basis for evaluating him one way or another.
How many minutes does Carlos have in the PL?
Also, who the hell would compare him to Kane? He is here as Kane’s back up.
Is this all we aspire to, a Kane backup?
There's your problem right there. You'll never get anyone decent if that's the target. To be a backup for Harry Kane. No decent striker will settle for that, so all your left with is your pick of the rest.
Carlos isn't going to be any better or worse than the next Kane 'backup' we manage to get because they'll all have exactly the same problems as he's having here.
What we actually need is a world-class striker that can either play with Kane or potentially instead of Kane when he is rested/injured. That means we need a system and pattern of play that doesn't totally revolve around Kane up front on his own.
There's your problem right there. You'll never get anyone decent if that's the target. To be a backup for Harry Kane. No decent striker will settle for that, so all your left with is your pick of the rest.
Carlos isn't going to be any better or worse than the next Kane 'backup' we manage to get because they'll all have exactly the same problems as he's having here.
What we actually need is a world-class striker that can either play with Kane or potentially instead of Kane when he is rested/injured. That means we need a system and pattern of play that doesn't totally revolve around Kane up front on his own.
At some point, Kane needs to be replaced. Son too. I think Son is 29 this year & Kane 28. Smart management would plan 12 months ahead....
what I find odd about this situation is the suggestion no one will come play back up at Spurs. That attitude would have seen Defoe never sign (twice) never seen Berbatov, never presented a Clive Allen arrival etc. All of those players had really good strikers to fight for a place in the team for. When we had Defoe, Keane and Berbatov we paid money out for Bent - who at the time was an England international.
They all came, probably because once in our existence playing for Spurs was an honour and not a favour, that’s maybe a reflection on modern football as much as anything.
what I find odd about this situation is the suggestion no one will come play back up at Spurs. That attitude would have seen Defoe never sign (twice) never seen Berbatov, never presented a Clive Allen arrival etc. All of those players had really good strikers to fight for a place in the team for. When we had Defoe, Keane and Berbatov we paid money out for Bent - who at the time was an England international.
They all came, probably because once in our existence playing for Spurs was an honour and not a favour, that’s maybe a reflection on modern football as much as anything.
True, but slightly different in those era's you were usually playing with 2 strikers up front. So when we had Berba, Keane, Defoe, Bent 2 of them would be in the side, 2 on the bench and you could rotate them. Utd did the same with Teddy, Cole, Yorke, Solksjaer.
We now play almost exclusively with Kane up front alone, and he plays every minute of every game so even 1 backup striker is not going to get any minutes until Kane is injured. We have to set up with a system that allows another striker to get on the pitch with Kane. Maybe Kane as a 10 slotting in behind him could work or vice versa.
I think the most likely way to get this is to bring in a young player with the potential to do that, although really that should have been what we did 3-4 years ago.
With our issues all over the squad I am not sure how much we can spend on bringing in a world class striker to compete with Kane, even if one was available.
There are a couple of youngish guys that moved or are likely to move that I think would offer as much as Vini, with more positional flexibility in that they could play in a front 3 with Kane and Son or as a traditional striker if Kane is out. I am sure there are others that I missed or don't know about but guys like Watkins, Moussa Dembele, Odsonne Edoaurd 3 guys that are 23/24 so maybe a little old to grow into long term replacements for Kane but all better options to put in right now with Kane out and all could have played in a front 3 with Kane and Son. All affordable as well. Demeble going to AM on a better deal than what we have for Vini this window kind of hurts since he is a much better fit for what we need.
Yes. I see what you are saying, striking partnerships seem less these days, but arguably two up front is what Son / Kane is. The squad needed options, Bringing in a cheap punt from Benfica was, in hindsight, not enough of an option.
If you want to blame the system, then shouldnt the system hamper Kane as well? Instead he was having one of his best seasons.
So yes, Vincius is not Kane, cos Vinicius is a very limited player while Kane is not.
Kane has had to alter his game to play in this system and drop deep to get touches. Not fair to judge Carlos IMO when he only has 158’ played all season.
Nothing really, but isn't that what he mainly did at Liverpool?
At the end of the day it doesn't matter who we buy/loan if the only time they play is when Kane is injured as we'll just have the same issues over and over again.
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Yep. That's why he left.
Benfica fan in peace here! 
Bored with my club's shit performance this season, so might as well investigate what's happening with some of our on-loan players at other clubs, so I don't have to think about this season at Benfica.
Well, that's not really true, is it?
Look at the top team in the PL now, how many players did they get from the Championship post-dirty oil money, and how many do they currently have from the Portuguese League, all ex-Benfica? (Bernardo Silva, Cancelo, Ederson, Ruben Dias).
Or the impact Bruno Fernandes is having at Man. Utd... or the 750 players Wolves bought from Portugal once they became friends with Jorge Mendes and how they transformed the club? I could give many more examples. The Championship is a great league, far better than any other 2nd tier league, but come on...
Regarding Vinicius, I read the last few pages of this topic, and this a reply to those who already saw enough of him and know that he's rubbish.
Comparing Raul Jimenez and Vinicius:
- Jimenez first season at a top european league (At. Madrid, age 23) was a complete failure. 27 games (all comps), 1 goal
- Vinicius' first half season at an almost top european league (Monaco, age 23) was rubbish. 16 games (just the league), 2 goals. Napoli doesn't count, they bought him for 5M euros with the only objective of loaning out right away, he didn't stay 1 minute there. First went to Rio Ave and in January to Monaco.
- Jimenez was then sold to Benfica after just season 1 season in Spain
- Vinicius was then sold to Benfica after just 1 year of his contract with Napoli
- Jimenez scored 18 goals in the league in 3 seasons for Benfica (80 games). 31 in 120, all comps, he scored a few in the cup against low tier teams. Overall rubbish.
- Vinicius scored 18 goals in the league in 1 season for Benfica (32 games). 24 in 47, all comps. No penalties if I remember correctly. Overall good/very good.
- Jimenez, age 27, after not doing anything of note in Europe, then went on loan to Wolves, buy-out clause +-40M euros. He did great, the 40M ended up being a huge bargain.
- Vinicius, age 25, then went on load to Spurs, buy-out clause +-40M euros. He's not doing great, obviously Spurs won't buy him. Some fans think he should move to a farmer's league.
So similar situations once they got to the top tiers in Europe, but Vinicius did much better up until leaving Benfica, and he's younger. In football, things are never as linear as "Napoli didn't want him, so he's rubbish" or "so and so scored x goals for club A, he'd be great for us".
Look at Luka Jovic, he used to be in our B-team when Jimenez was there, played about 20 minutes total in the league, complete non-entity. Then the following season went on loan to Frankfurt to become one of the world's top strikers, R.Madrid paid 60 million for him... Only to become rubbish again at Madrid, and once again great for Frankfurt after moving in the past transfer window lol
You need to have a coach and a system that is compatible with the players. They can go from being amazing to rubbish or vice-versa just by changing clubs/managers. It's still the same player!
I don't know if Vinicius is good enough for Spurs, honestly probably not, it's been my opinion since he moved. However, I used to think the same about Raul Jimenez, when he went to Wolves. I was 100% sure Wolves wouldn't activate the buy-out clause, I thought it was a fucking joke. But he got to a club that plays in a positive way, with a coach who understands how to play Jimenez effectively. Something he probably never got at Benfica, we had a lot of decent players to choose from back then, effectively spoiled for choice and we made some bad choices. Jimenez is clearly better than what he showed at my club.
The opposite can be said about Vinicius, decent system and team mates for him at Benfica where he could shine, and now at Spurs he gets a neurotic and paranoid coach with massive insecurity issues, who obviously plays in a way that most forwards would struggle. Not to mention Mou's amazing and highly motivating man-management skills. Is Dele Alli that rubbish or is Mourinho a defensive paranoid lunatic? Were Salah and De Bruyne rubbish or was Mourinho a defensive paranoid lunatic at Chelsea? So maybe Vinicius is not Harry Kane mk2 (who is?), maybe he's not as good as Jimenez (different style of play, but who knows...), but he could probably be much more effective in a different environment.
Bruno Fernandes would now be a defensive midfielder with 0 goals and 27 yellow cards had he signed for a Mourinho team.
Sign Pickford, his T-Rex arms make him the perfect goalkeeper for a Jurassic coach.
Bored with my club's shit performance this season, so might as well investigate what's happening with some of our on-loan players at other clubs, so I don't have to think about this season at Benfica.
Well, that's not really true, is it?
Look at the top team in the PL now, how many players did they get from the Championship post-dirty oil money, and how many do they currently have from the Portuguese League, all ex-Benfica? (Bernardo Silva, Cancelo, Ederson, Ruben Dias).
Or the impact Bruno Fernandes is having at Man. Utd... or the 750 players Wolves bought from Portugal once they became friends with Jorge Mendes and how they transformed the club? I could give many more examples. The Championship is a great league, far better than any other 2nd tier league, but come on...
Regarding Vinicius, I read the last few pages of this topic, and this a reply to those who already saw enough of him and know that he's rubbish.
Comparing Raul Jimenez and Vinicius:
- Jimenez first season at a top european league (At. Madrid, age 23) was a complete failure. 27 games (all comps), 1 goal
- Vinicius' first half season at an almost top european league (Monaco, age 23) was rubbish. 16 games (just the league), 2 goals. Napoli doesn't count, they bought him for 5M euros with the only objective of loaning out right away, he didn't stay 1 minute there. First went to Rio Ave and in January to Monaco.
- Jimenez was then sold to Benfica after just season 1 season in Spain
- Vinicius was then sold to Benfica after just 1 year of his contract with Napoli
- Jimenez scored 18 goals in the league in 3 seasons for Benfica (80 games). 31 in 120, all comps, he scored a few in the cup against low tier teams. Overall rubbish.
- Vinicius scored 18 goals in the league in 1 season for Benfica (32 games). 24 in 47, all comps. No penalties if I remember correctly. Overall good/very good.
- Jimenez, age 27, after not doing anything of note in Europe, then went on loan to Wolves, buy-out clause +-40M euros. He did great, the 40M ended up being a huge bargain.
- Vinicius, age 25, then went on load to Spurs, buy-out clause +-40M euros. He's not doing great, obviously Spurs won't buy him. Some fans think he should move to a farmer's league.
So similar situations once they got to the top tiers in Europe, but Vinicius did much better up until leaving Benfica, and he's younger. In football, things are never as linear as "Napoli didn't want him, so he's rubbish" or "so and so scored x goals for club A, he'd be great for us".
Look at Luka Jovic, he used to be in our B-team when Jimenez was there, played about 20 minutes total in the league, complete non-entity. Then the following season went on loan to Frankfurt to become one of the world's top strikers, R.Madrid paid 60 million for him... Only to become rubbish again at Madrid, and once again great for Frankfurt after moving in the past transfer window lol
You need to have a coach and a system that is compatible with the players. They can go from being amazing to rubbish or vice-versa just by changing clubs/managers. It's still the same player!
I don't know if Vinicius is good enough for Spurs, honestly probably not, it's been my opinion since he moved. However, I used to think the same about Raul Jimenez, when he went to Wolves. I was 100% sure Wolves wouldn't activate the buy-out clause, I thought it was a fucking joke. But he got to a club that plays in a positive way, with a coach who understands how to play Jimenez effectively. Something he probably never got at Benfica, we had a lot of decent players to choose from back then, effectively spoiled for choice and we made some bad choices. Jimenez is clearly better than what he showed at my club.
The opposite can be said about Vinicius, decent system and team mates for him at Benfica where he could shine, and now at Spurs he gets a neurotic and paranoid coach with massive insecurity issues, who obviously plays in a way that most forwards would struggle. Not to mention Mou's amazing and highly motivating man-management skills. Is Dele Alli that rubbish or is Mourinho a defensive paranoid lunatic? Were Salah and De Bruyne rubbish or was Mourinho a defensive paranoid lunatic at Chelsea? So maybe Vinicius is not Harry Kane mk2 (who is?), maybe he's not as good as Jimenez (different style of play, but who knows...), but he could probably be much more effective in a different environment.
Bruno Fernandes would now be a defensive midfielder with 0 goals and 27 yellow cards had he signed for a Mourinho team.
Sign Pickford, his T-Rex arms make him the perfect goalkeeper for a Jurassic coach.Even Messi would struggle under Mourinho. Imagine him trying to win our hoof balls from defence against EPL center backs?
Mourinho would of course blame him and ask for his brother to come back.
Mourinho would of course blame him and ask for his brother to come back.