City v Spurs 19/20 ratings and ramblings

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  • Total voters
    78
Deja Poo

It's really, really hard to see the logic in the way Poch set us up today. What's troubling is how many times we say this about games against City, or big games in general. The way way we initially set up and played, was so fucking naive it's hard to comprehend. Like Poch has never seen them, let alone been mullered by them several times the same way.

City are the one team who you absolutely know how they are going to play. They play 433 and look to move you around in midfield, pull players out of position and manipulate you into creating wide overloads. Without the ball they squeeze the shit out of you, try to hem you in and force you to turn over possession, again meaning they can overload.

If the plan with the 4231 was to actually try and take the game to City then it failed miserably. We needed to play much higher, be tactically cohesive and aggressive, press like ferocious cunts ourselves. Instead we sat back, Winks and Ndombele got horribly outnumbered by City's 3 in midfield easily, DeBruyne and Gundogan continually finding space between lines, Eriksen and Sissoko repeatedly lost runners in wide areas, KWP particularly (but also Rose) was horribly exposed - even Neville picked out Sissoko as needing to cover and track more in his commentary.

Playing a CM2 against City's CM3 is never a great idea, even if we had two Kante's in there, but we didn't even have one. It was really naive stuff. I also don't get why he didn't put Lamela on one of the wide positions, where his willingness to track and tackle might have been more use and have Eriksen through the centre, where his brain and composure on the counter might have been more viable.

If the plan on the other hand was to contain and counter, that was equally inept, we certainly didn't contain and we didn't counter once. Had three fucking shots in 96 minutes. And one of them was a header from one of our two corners. I've seen bottom half clubs make a better fist of bus parking and countering there.

I don't even think this City were at their scintillating best, they didn't have to be. We were lucky to still be in it by the time we equalised, but the goal and Poch adjusting to a kind of 4141 - at least without the ball - saw us improve bit, and we did actually get some kind of faint foothold in the game for the last 20 minted of that first half, passes were actually made between our own players, that half actually finished up with us having 48% of the ball (although we did also inconveniently concede another gaol during this phase).

If the first half was a bit of a shit sandwich, the second half we didn't even get the bread. It was just shit. Made much worse by the bizarre substitution of Winks. Lets be clear, Winks wasn't great, but nobody was, but he was shitting the bed less than most others, receiving the ball more than others, I'm Ok with putting Moura's quick legs for the counter into that game, I just don't understand the logic of taking Winks out of it - if it was tactical (if it wasn't, and it;'s because he's trying to get him though games then fair do's). If tactical, the decision to take him out and keep Sissoko on, and worse, move him back to Wink's midfield position was fucking whack.

In his 55 minutes, Winks completed 44/48 passes. Received the ball 46 times. Fwd 17/Back 19/Sq 8.

In 95 minutes Sissoko completed 26/32. Received 25. Fwd 7 (yes fucking 7)/Back 16/ Sq 3. In the 40 minutes he played in Winks's place, he made 10 fucking passes. We went from having 48% of the ball to having 36% from the time Winks went off. Was there a defensive payoff maybe, you ask? No, Sissoko made zero tackles, zero interceptions in the whole game, repeatedly failed to track runners - there were numerous examples of this throughout he game (as previously mentioned, highlighted by Neville) but a typical one was when KWP ended ups getting striped by Stirling. (For completeness, Ndombele 39/45. Rcvd 40. Fwd 18/Back 13/Sq 8)

I'm not saying Sissoko was the only candidate for being hooked, Poch could have yanked any of the front four off, Lamela continually killed just about every break we had, Eriksen was as inept as Sissoko. Hell even Ndombele was no more effective than Winks in the grand scheme of things.

I just did not understand this sub at all. From that point on we degenerated into Burnley with less football and but for the beautifulness of VAR would have got exactly what we/Poch deserved.

This was a skanking.


Individual

Lloris - Distribution was fucking awful. Couple of decent saves.

KWP - Tough learning curve today. Got very little protection at times, but also looked like a kid playing his first ever consecutive PL game at times.

Alderweireld - Pretty poor for the second goal, letting Aguero get across him.

Sanchez - One of the few to come out with any credit, worked off his feet.

Rose - Like KWP got badly exposed at times.

Ndombele - Looked like a turtle in a windsock at times - but the CM2 without a proper 6 in there was always going to be a tough ask.

Winks - Same as Ndombele, but was at least seeing more ball and receiving nearly twice as much as other midfielders, just did not get the logic of taking him of all people out of that game.

Sissoko - Fucking terrible, again.

Lamela - Took his goal well, and slung in a mean corner for the 2nd, but fucked away just about every other opportunity we had to counter with poor choices and execution and managed to complete 15 passes in 84 minutes. It's not enough.

Eriksen - Really poor.

Kane - No service but not great either.

Moura - Great header, touched the ball 10 more times after that in 40 minutes, 5 of them successfully. Yay.

I just did not understand this sub at all

Second week in a row you've completely failed to grasp the tactical nuances of a game, last week a 0-1 game ended as a 3-1 win this week a 1-2 game ended as a 2-2.

Were we outplayed by the best team in Europe? of course we were ... did we manage a higher possession rate and more passes than any team has previously managed at the Etihad in 2019 - yes we did. So whilst we were comprehensively outplayed we did still manage a better contribution than any other team has done at the Etihad in eight months. What's more we scored two goals something only Crystal Palace in the EPL managed all of last season, City dropped points just once at home last season now they've done that after just one game ... perhaps we deserve a little credit.

So whilst the better side certainly didn't win, the battling performance for an undeserved draw is something to be admired not criticized.
Lloris - Distribution was fucking awful. Couple of decent saves.
In fact he had a massive game, made zero errors challenged for everything and ended up with eight saves ... were you even watching?
KWP - Tough learning curve today. Got very little protection at times, but also looked like a kid playing his first ever consecutive PL game at times.
Up against the best attacking player in the EPL on current form, this was a breakout game for KWP the day he proved he is potentially right back material we can rely on ... beaten by Sterling a couple of times, sure he was, but so effective was he that City switched to attacking Danny for the entire second half .... again were you even watching?

Your midfield summary is just a weekly cut and paste "Sissoko was crap everyone else gets a free pass" no point even responding to that anymore it's just agenda driven nonsense

You seem to completely ignore the fact that we were playing a team that has won it's last fifteen games straight, a team with 18 world class players to call on, you write a review as if we were playing Accrington Stanley's reserves, it's bloody tedious.

Why not focus on the positives? KWP stood up to the toughest test he will get all season, Sanchez got better and better as the game went on, Lamela showed some real quality, Poch made a crucial point saving substitution, and despite looking ugly as sin we got a point at a ground where nobody all year has got anything at all ... try a bit of positivity

Realism has it's place but never ending depression? how is that being supportive?
 
Deja Poo

It's really, really hard to see the logic in the way Poch set us up today. What's troubling is how many times we say this about games against City, or big games in general. The way way we initially set up and played, was so fucking naive it's hard to comprehend. Like Poch has never seen them, let alone been mullered by them several times the same way.

City are the one team who you absolutely know how they are going to play. They play 433 and look to move you around in midfield, pull players out of position and manipulate you into creating wide overloads. Without the ball they squeeze the shit out of you, try to hem you in and force you to turn over possession, again meaning they can overload.

If the plan with the 4231 was to actually try and take the game to City then it failed miserably. We needed to play much higher, be tactically cohesive and aggressive, press like ferocious cunts ourselves. Instead we sat back, Winks and Ndombele got horribly outnumbered by City's 3 in midfield easily, DeBruyne and Gundogan continually finding space between lines, Eriksen and Sissoko repeatedly lost runners in wide areas, KWP particularly (but also Rose) was horribly exposed - even Neville picked out Sissoko as needing to cover and track more in his commentary.

Playing a CM2 against City's CM3 is never a great idea, even if we had two Kante's in there, but we didn't even have one. It was really naive stuff. I also don't get why he didn't put Lamela on one of the wide positions, where his willingness to track and tackle might have been more use and have Eriksen through the centre, where his brain and composure on the counter might have been more viable.

If the plan on the other hand was to contain and counter, that was equally inept, we certainly didn't contain and we didn't counter once effectively. Had three fucking shots in 96 minutes. And one of them was a header from one of our two corners. I've seen bottom half clubs make a better fist of bus parking and countering there.

I don't even think this City were at their scintillating best, they didn't have to be. We were lucky to still be in it by the time we equalised, but the goal and Poch adjusting to a kind of 4141 - at least without the ball - saw us improve bit, and we did actually get some kind of faint foothold in the game for the last 20 minutes of that first half, passes were actually made between our own players, and that half actually finished up with us having 48% of the ball (although we did also inconveniently concede another gaol during this phase).

If the first half was a bit of a shit sandwich, the second half we didn't even get the bread. It was just insipid shit. Made much worse by the bizarre substitution of Winks. Lets be clear, Winks wasn't great, but nobody was, but he was shitting the bed less than most others, receiving the ball more than others. I'm Ok with putting Moura's quick legs for the counter into that game, I just don't understand the logic of taking Winks out of it - if it was tactical (if it wasn't, and it's because he's trying to get him through games then fair do's). but If tactical, the decision to take him out and keep Sissoko on, and worse, move him back to Wink's midfield position was fucking whack.

In his 55 minutes, Winks completed 44/48 passes. Received the ball 46 times. Fwd 17/Back 19/Sq 8.

In 95 minutes Sissoko completed 26/32. Received 25. Fwd 7 (yes fucking 7)/Back 16/ Sq 3. In the 40 minutes he played in Winks's place, he made 10 fucking passes. We went from having 48% of the ball to having 36% from the time Winks went off. (For completeness, Ndombele 39/45. Rcvd 40. Fwd 18/Back 13/Sq 8)

Was there a defensive payoff to this tactical switch maybe? No, Sissoko made zero tackles, zero interceptions in the whole game, repeatedly failed to track runners - there were numerous examples of this throughout he game (as previously mentioned, highlighted by Neville) but a typical one was when KWP ended ups getting striped by Stirling.

I'm not saying Sissoko was the only candidate for being hooked, Poch could have yanked any of the front four off, Lamela continually killed just about every break we had, Eriksen was as inept as Sissoko. Hell even Ndombele was no more effective than Winks in the grand scheme of things.

I just did not understand this sub at all. From that point on we degenerated into Burnley with less football and but for the beautifulness of VAR would have got exactly what we/Poch deserved.

This was a skanking.


Individual

Lloris - Distribution was fucking awful. Couple of decent saves.

KWP - Tough learning curve today. Got very little protection at times, but also looked like a kid playing his first ever consecutive PL game at times.

Alderweireld - Pretty poor for the second goal, letting Aguero get across him.

Sanchez - One of the few to come out with any credit, worked off his feet.

Rose - Like KWP got badly exposed at times.

Ndombele - Looked like a turtle in a windsock at times - but the CM2 without a proper 6 in there was always going to be a tough ask.

Winks - Same as Ndombele, but was at least seeing more ball and receiving nearly twice as much as other midfielders, just did not get the logic of taking him of all people out of that game.

Sissoko - Fucking terrible, again.

Lamela - Took his goal well, and slung in a mean corner for the 2nd, but fucked away just about every other opportunity we had to counter with poor choices and execution and managed to complete 15 passes in 84 minutes. It's not enough.

Eriksen - Really poor.

Kane - No service but not great either.

Moura - Great header, touched the ball 10 more times after that in 40 minutes, 5 of them successfully. Yay.
 
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Just strange tactics all round with little care for changing it for long periods when it was clear it wasn't working.

Very strange, but Poch got away with it big time. Luckily, we won't have to play City away again this season (touch wood)

Sanchez MOTM for me. That second half performance was brilliant.
 
Didn't understand playing 2 in midfield against them at all, taking Winks off and putting Sis in his place to take the ball off the back 4 is very very bizarre. Love him or hate him, that really isn't his game so not sure what Poch was playing at.

Watching City up close (and I've been up there a few times) they really are impressive and this is the best I've seen them apart from in front of goal and going to sleep for our goals.

I actually thought Winks had a good game and showed a lot of courage in wanting the ball in tight situations. I was also impressed with KWP - he was targeted but stood up to it really well and showed a lot of character and bravery against one of the best attacking players in the league. If he can stay injury free he'll be our RB for years to come.

The City fans were cunts and waiting for us outside the away end they were absolutely fuming, there weren't enough old bill and then they just started hitting people who weren't even provoking them (not me obvs cos I'm hard as).

Would've taken 4 points at the start of the season from these 2 games, Poch needs to improve tactically in these big games but this team has character and fight and I love that they don't know when they're beat. Love VAR too.
 
The way we play 100% does matter if it's indicative of how we will approach big games all season. Let's face it if we lost that 5-0 we couldn't have grumbled.

Not often I agree with Blakey on here but he's spot on with this one. Set up was terrible from the off and other then the 15 minute spell after our first goal, we looked like a league 1 side clinging on against a side in the prem.

We had injuries and fitness issues granted but we could and should have had a midfield 3 of Ndombele Winks and Sissoko with Eriksen playing just infront, Kane occupying the CBs whilst Moura exploited the holes there fullbacks leave especially Zinchenkos side IMO.

On defense Eriksen and Moura could have dropped back allowing the two CMs to track the fullbacks as they moved forward.

Instead we just packed the midfield allowing KDB free roam on the flanks and our fullbacks both flanks where almost always 2v1. Whilst Kane was stuck up top solo against 3 men one of them Rodri who dominated in the air

If you're going to base your thoughts on a presumption we should have lost 5-0 what's the point?

We can all list you games we should have won 5-0, last season Utd a Wembley for starters, but that's all hypothetical bollocks. The fact is we were in still in the game after 15 minutes that changed the way the next 75 minutes were played ... just as the 1st minute in the CL Final changed the way that game was played ...

To write several paragraphs about events that never happened? what's the point.

We packed the midfield, gave them the flanks and were the first team in 2019 to get a point at the Etihad ... your summation is that we did everything wrong ... go figure

Why do people want to rip everything down instead of praise the achievement ... sure City were better but we employed a strategy and battled for 95 minutes to make that strategy work ... was it pretty? was it creative? was it what we will do every week?

No of course not ... but instead of whinging and moaning think on this ....

Every team that goes to the Etihad attempts to shut down City out wide, double up on Sterling and cover Walker's overlapping runs ... how's that worked out for every single one of them in 2019? Every single one of them lost ... so Poch tries something radically different, packs the centre and exposes the flanks, he comes away as the first manager to take a point this year ... yet here are the regular keyboard "fans" lining up to criticise and explain how they would have done better ... just wow
 
Poch has been making some very head scratching calls lately. CE & Sissoko out wide, keeping Lucas on the bench to start, subbing on an 18 year old to close the game out at the end instead of like Dier for example.
 
I just did not understand this sub at all

Second week in a row you've completely failed to grasp the tactical nuances of a game, last week a 0-1 game ended as a 3-1 win this week a 1-2 game ended as a 2-2.

As I said, I can understand putting Moura into that game, what I do not understand the "tactical nuance" of, is removing our most active player in terms of receiving and retaining there ball to do that, when there were at least four (maybe five) other players he could have removed which would have been less detrimental to that. And this was bourn out by the fact that our grip of the game vastly diminished from that moment on.

Were we outplayed by the best team in Europe? of course we were ... did we manage a higher possession rate and more passes than any team has previously managed at the Etihad in 2019 - yes we did.

Er...no we didn't. This is bollocks. Liverpool actually out possessed ManC there in January (50.4 - 49.6) and completed and made more passes than we did.

And much, much more importantly, Liverpool reduced City to 9 shots, 4 on target, compared to our 30, 10 on target. Liverpool reduced City to an x/g of 1 whilst having an x/g themselves of 1.38, while we allowed them an x/g of 3.23 and had an x/g of 0.11 ourselves.

So whilst we were comprehensively outplayed we did still manage a better contribution than any other team has done at the Etihad in eight months.

Looking back the last team to clock up similar performance stats against City away was Cardiff, but even they managed an x/g of 0.14 or West Ham who also managed an x/g of 0.4.

So forgive me if I don't buy your bullshit.


In fact he had a massive game, made zero errors challenged for everything and ended up with eight saves ... were you even watching?


I don't understand how giving the ball away when distributing, putting our defence under pressure, it isn't an "error" in your book? Especially against this City team?

We conceded goals by him doing this when they hammered us a couple of years back.

Up against the best attacking player in the EPL on current form, this was a breakout game for KWP the day he proved he is potentially right back material we can rely on ... beaten by Sterling a couple of times, sure he was, but so effective was he that City switched to attacking Danny for the entire second half .... again were you even watching?

I am a big fan of KWP and would like to see him get a run of games, and I also pointed out that he didn't get the support he desperately needed, but "break out game" or "the day he proved he is potentially right back material we can rely on"? What does that mean exactly are you saying he proved it conclusively or he potentially proved it? I would say he's shown buckets of potential already, enough to want to see him get a run of games. But I didn't see a road to Damascus moment yesterday. He did some decent things and some not decent things, I'm not crucifying him for the not so decent, it was ManC after all and he got fuck all help at times from Sissoko, but I'm not going to hail it as a wonderful performance either, because it wasn't.


Your midfield summary is just a weekly cut and paste "Sissoko was crap everyone else gets a free pass" no point even responding to that anymore it's just agenda driven nonsense

Except I didn't just criticise Sissoko. You've even quoted at least two other players above.

You seem to completely ignore the fact that we were playing a team that has won it's last fifteen games straight, a team with 18 world class players to call on, you write a review as if we were playing Accrington Stanley's reserves, it's bloody tedious.

I'm not ignoring that at all. I don't expect us to go there and outplay them, out possess them, out pass them, but I would hope we could get closer to what Liverpool did than Cardiff.

I would have liked to see our manager go into one of these games looking like he understands the tactical structure and application of his opponent, and also have his players not look like lobotomised rabbits in headlights for the first 25 minutes of these games, and then have to invariably scrabble around to to adjust our shape to cope with tactics that were completely predictable, often already having conceded a goal.

I love him as a coach, but I'd really like to see signs that our head coach, after 5+ years in the job, is evolving tactically, especially on the biggest tests.

Realism has it's place but never ending depression? how is that being supportive?

I praised plenty of things last week. I don't really see how bullshitting is being more supportive?
 
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Lloris 8 - one dodgy punch but some brilliant saves
KWP 7 - caught out for the first goal but stood up well to Sterling
Toby 4 - one good block but was sleeping on the second goal
Sanchez 8 - beast, immense second half and deserves to keep his place
Rose 3 - away with the fairies once again, repeatedly allowed De Bruyne time and space to deliver killer passes and dithered whenever he had the ball
Winks 5 - tried to be brave on the ball but physically looks short of his best
Sissoko 4 - needed to help KWP more, he’s standing still on the first goal instead of following in
NDombele 6 - adapting quickly to the PL and doing a good impression of Dembele
Eriksen 4 - non-entity
Lamela 6 - great goal and good corner delivery
Kane 4 - didn’t do anything wrong but we simply couldn’t find him

Lucas 7 - great header
Lo Celso N/A - I don’t think he touched the ball
Skipp N/A - as above
VAR 10 - made key contribution late on
 
Didn't understand playing 2 in midfield against them at all, taking Winks off and putting Sis in his place to take the ball off the back 4 is very very bizarre. Love him or hate him, that really isn't his game so not sure what Poch was playing at.

Watching City up close (and I've been up there a few times) they really are impressive and this is the best I've seen them apart from in front of goal and going to sleep for our goals.

I actually thought Winks had a good game and showed a lot of courage in wanting the ball in tight situations. I was also impressed with KWP - he was targeted but stood up to it really well and showed a lot of character and bravery against one of the best attacking players in the league. If he can stay injury free he'll be our RB for years to come.

The City fans were cunts and waiting for us outside the away end they were absolutely fuming, there weren't enough old bill and then they just started hitting people who weren't even provoking them (not me obvs cos I'm hard as).

Would've taken 4 points at the start of the season from these 2 games, Poch needs to improve tactically in these big games but this team has character and fight and I love that they don't know when they're beat. Love VAR too.


Agree with all of this and have always maintained that Poch has instilled some bollocks, which for us older Spurs fans is lovely, because we'd lacked it for so long, but I'd like to see us start some of these games with more bollocks, rather than wait until we've been outplayed and gone behind before it kicks in.

I'd like to see us come out and look like everyone is aggressively "on it", hungry not to lose a single personal battle. Start with some intensity. Instead we come out of some of these (big) games looking timid and/or lethargic, ill prepared and lacking belief.
 
The whole team 10/10, we went into the trenches and dodged a bullet, no scratch that we dodged machine gun fire.

People being over critical after going to City and it’s only 2 games into the season are just being critical for the sake of being critical.
Wait at least 6 games in then start forming critical opinions if we must.
 
If you're going to base your thoughts on a presumption we should have lost 5-0 what's the point?

We can all list you games we should have won 5-0, last season Utd a Wembley for starters, but that's all hypothetical bollocks. The fact is we were in still in the game after 15 minutes that changed the way the next 75 minutes were played ... just as the 1st minute in the CL Final changed the way that game was played ...

To write several paragraphs about events that never happened? what's the point.

We packed the midfield, gave them the flanks and were the first team in 2019 to get a point at the Etihad ... your summation is that we did everything wrong ... go figure

Why do people want to rip everything down instead of praise the achievement ... sure City were better but we employed a strategy and battled for 95 minutes to make that strategy work ... was it pretty? was it creative? was it what we will do every week?

No of course not ... but instead of whinging and moaning think on this ....

Every team that goes to the Etihad attempts to shut down City out wide, double up on Sterling and cover Walker's overlapping runs ... how's that worked out for every single one of them in 2019? Every single one of them lost ... so Poch tries something radically different, packs the centre and exposes the flanks, he comes away as the first manager to take a point this year ... yet here are the regular keyboard "fans" lining up to criticise and explain how they would have done better ... just wow

Result aside we played very poor in that game if you cant see that the tactics we played contributed to that and we rode our luck for large portions of the game then you didn't watch it properly. But obviously the result was the most important part my concern was Poch choosing to play how we did when last year we set up tactically better 3 times against City alone, it was poor by Poch and the result didn't reflect the game.

And yes the United game last year is a great example of the reverse happening to us. It happens in football usually to us so I'm glad we got the luck for a change in a big game.

Plenty of teams have played much better then us against City and got beaten we got lucky simple as.
I'm very glad we did though obviously, but again I would rather we looked competitive then simple rode our luck.

Also thanks for then "fans" comment didn't realise that not being all sun and roses all the time and trying to have a constructive conversation on where I think we can improve as a side made me less of a "fan" glad you where here to point that out to me though
 
I think Sanchez is getting a bit more credit than he deserves. Not sure how anybody can vote for anybody but Moura....really the only player who played worth a damn.
 
When we lost2-1 at a Liverpool we played much better and could have won it. But we lost unluckily and all the “ Spurs lack the winning mentality “ quotes came out.

Now we get a point against the best team probably in the world and it apparently showed just why we can never compete with the top 2. No win situation. Were we really expecting to go there yesterday and outplay them ? Yes they had 30 shots but how many of them were “ should have scored “ efforts ? Not many. We defended resolutely and had a high percentage of possession. City have conceded I believe 8 goals at home all year , 5 of them against Spurs. So they obviously love playing us. I felt better after this game than the Liverpool one where we played much better.

The only thing I would say on the Sissoko issue is that if he is going to play it has to be in the middle. He is awful out wide . It could be that the signing of Ndombele will ultimately be what costs him his position in the team.
 
You have got to be kidding. You think GLC coming good puts us on equal footing with City??

I’m not saying we should kowtow to them or anything, but it would take a massive blow-up from City for us not to finish 10+ points back of them.

Look, we beat them in the UCL last season without Kane. A relatively healthy season last year and we are closer in the PL. Add some capacity in the midfield and we stand a chance.

You have a loser mentality.
 
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