Dele

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Let's just stick to facts shall we:
He was stationed in a deeper midfielder role for 17 per cent of his Premier League appearances compared to six per cent in 2017-18, which was clearly a contributing factor to his reduced goal threat.
So in 83% of the games he's played where he should be playing
His performance level / stats have dropped by way more than 17% , let's get real position isn't an excuse
 
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You make it sound like he was playing centre half. As someone who has played football to a pretty high standard surely you can see that he has regressed
No, he hasn't regressed! Still a great player, one of the first names on the team sheet. I've been saying this throughout this period too. To people who weren't even aware that at the time he was playing in a fucking double-pivot in some games!!

He's barely played in his best position for nearly THREE seasons now, yet all comparisons are made against what he did when playing in his best position. He was used to plug a porous and declining midfield in a mid-block in Poch's last couple of seasons. Under Jose he played as CAM/2nd striker role and excelled (his best position) for just a small handful of games, then Jose shat the bed and played him deeper and/or as a lone striker (as striker putting in more KM's than any player on the park chasing aimless punts upfield, completly unsupported), his reward for this is for fans to slate him for not being the player he is when played in his best position!!

Now we have Jose as our manager, let's not forget the bus parking we've had to endure, not really going to bring out the best in any of our attacking options, save for probably for Son on a counter-attack.
 
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So in 83% of the games he's played where he should be playing
His performance level / stats have dropped by way more than 17% , let's get real position isn't an excuse
His early goals output significantly overperformed xG - this gave a false impression of what output we should expect from Dele: around 7-10 goals a year, not 12-15.

Dele’s output over his different positions over time, we see that he’s certainly strongest and most comfortable creating when playing in the hole. By just considering positions where he’s played 500 minutes or more in a given season, Dele’s expected goals per position looks like the following:

An xG of 0.46 per 90 minutes this season when playing behind the striker is his best ever at that position, and his second best overall — just behind when he was playing nominally on the left in 2016-17 (often alongside a wing-back in a three at the back system that allowed Dele to play more like a No 10).

Also, 2019-20 is seeing Dele do some of his best creative work, making quality chances for team-mates too. While he only has four assists so far, these figures suggest he’s playing as well as he was when he got nine and 10 assists in 2015-16 and 2017-18 respectively.

We now park the fucking bus!!!!
 
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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
I'm not surprised Dele gets a tough time.

Kane gets a tough time and he's scored 27 goals in 31 games this season and called off form.

Dele will never perform (statistically) the same way he did in the 16/17 season unless we play the exact same way and he plays further forward.

Considering Son now plays more consistently and we have Lucas and Bergwijn now to compliment the attack, have no attacking wing backs and need numbers in the centre of the park - that isn't happening.

I like Dele - I think he does a good job and is harshly criticised for trying to make things happen. But people need to stop judging him on what they would have expected of him 3 seasons ago. We arent the same team, we don't play the same way, we don't even have the same manager.
 
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His early goals output significantly overperformed xG - this gave a false impression of what output we should expect from Dele: around 7-10 goals a year, not 12-15.

Dele’s output over his different positions over time, we see that he’s certainly strongest and most comfortable creating when playing in the hole. By just considering positions where he’s played 500 minutes or more in a given season, Dele’s expected goals per position looks like the following:

An xG of 0.46 per 90 minutes this season when playing behind the striker is his best ever at that position, and his second best overall — just behind when he was playing nominally on the left in 2016-17 (often alongside a wing-back in a three at the back system that allowed Dele to play more like a No 10).

Also, 2019-20 is seeing Dele do some of his best creative work, making quality chances for team-mates too. While he only has four assists so far, these figures suggest he’s playing as well as he was when he got nine and 10 assists in 2015-16 and 2017-18 respectively.

We now park the fucking bus!!!!
But when all is said and done his control, touch, finishing and judgement seem to have declined. I think he tries hard and can see he gets frustrated which is why he can seem a bit petulant. I hope he gets back to his best because he was a great player. But I think you are wrong to suggest that he has had a good season
 
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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
But when all is said and done his control, touch, finishing and judgement seem to have declined. I think he tries hard and can see he gets frustrated which is why he can seem a bit petulant. I hope he gets back to his best because he was a great player. But I think you are wrong to suggest that he has had a good season
Memory always seems to make things or people seem better during successful times.

I watched a Spurs game from 16/17 the other day and Dele Alli was still just as "slow" in our attacks with the ball. Still trying the little tricks and flicks. His touch wasn't always the best.

But the difference? We were winning games. So no one moaned and gave a shit.

The only difference I saw in Deles game was that he wasn't as deep and his runs in the box were much more frequent as to be expected due to our style of play and his positioning.

But that makes sense and it's the thinking in modern football. Ndombele got unanimous praise in the City win for his assist, the dribble to beat Rodri etc. That everyone overlooked his work rate and defensive work off the ball. Yet when we lose or don't win, that's picked up on instantly.
 
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But when all is said and done his control, touch, finishing and judgement seem to have declined. I think he tries hard and can see he gets frustrated which is why he can seem a bit petulant. I hope he gets back to his best because he was a great player. But I think you are wrong to suggest that he has had a good season
No, no they haven't!!

He has always played a one and two touch game. He's always played with flicks and tricks, these things rarely come off, they are low % even in 2016/17/18 seasons but they way we played, in a high pressing, ultra-aggressive possession style meant we were constantly on the ball and regularly attacking, it was fun. The attacks were also supported, so when flicks didn't come off we were so high up the pitch there was another Spurs player to win it back or the oppo was pushed so far back they had no out ball, so we regained possession and started all over again. Whilst playing in his best position, within this style of football he was at the heart of everything we did, because we were attacking and not sat in a low or mid-block as we have been the past 2.5yrs.

I haven't said, "he's had a good season" (I don't think anyone has had a good season). I've said he hasn't declined as a player, he's playing/been played in different positions (absolutely NOT in his best position) for the best part of THREE seasons, during this time he played almost an entire season injured too. Yet still, you and others judge him based off not playing in his best position and when we were a great attacking side pressing high up the pitch, compared to us now camped on the edge of our own box hoofing the ball long.
 
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Airfixx

Cherub
Memory always seems to make things or people seem better during successful times.

I watched a Spurs game from 16/17 the other day and Dele Alli was still just as "slow" in our attacks with the ball. Still trying the little tricks and flicks. His touch wasn't always the best.

But the difference? We were winning games. So no one moaned and gave a shit.

The only difference I saw in Deles game was that he wasn't as deep and his runs in the box were much more frequent as to be expected due to our style of play and his positioning.

But that makes sense and it's the thinking in modern football. Ndombele got unanimous praise in the City win for his assist, the dribble to beat Rodri etc. That everyone overlooked his work rate and defensive work off the ball. Yet when we lose or don't win, that's picked up on instantly.
I don't necessarily say this with Dele in mind, but who/where should we look to for someone to take ownership on the pitch then..... ?

Lets face it, a team full of fairweather players that can only perform when everyone around them is on song will get you nowhere at all....

Reeks of a latter day Wenger team.
 
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No, no they haven't!!

He has always played a one and two touch game. He's always played with flicks and tricks, these things rarely come off, they are low % even in 2016/17/18 seasons but they way we played, in a high pressing, ultra-aggressive possession style meant we were constantly on the ball and regularly attacking, it was fun. The attacks were also supported, so when flicks didn't come off we were so high up the pitch there was another Spurs player to win it back or the oppo was pushed so far back they had no out ball, so we regained possession and started all over again. Whilst playing in his best position, within this style of football he was at the heart of everything we did, because we were attacking and not sat in a low or mid-block as we have been the past 2.5yrs.

I haven't said, "he's had a good season" (I don't think anyone has had a good season). I've said he hasn't declined as a player, he's playing/been played in different positions (absolutely NOT in his best position) for the best part of THREE seasons, during this time he played almost an entire season injured too. Yet still, you and others judge him based off not playing in his best position and when we were a great attacking side pressing high up the pitch, compared to us now camped on the edge of our own box hoofing the ball long.
Well I don’t think he has developed at all. I think he has been worked out to an extent by the opposition and as a result his flicks and tricks no longer compensate for his lack of pace. He was a shoe-in for an England spot a couple of years ago but no longer it would seem so I appear not to be the only one. Anyway I genuinely hope he proves me wrong
 
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Well I don’t think he has developed at all. I think he has been worked out to an extent by the opposition and as a result his flicks and tricks no longer compensate for his lack of pace. He was a shoe-in for an England spot a couple of years ago but no longer it would seem so I appear not to be the only one. Anyway I genuinely hope he proves me wrong
Literally EVERY post you fail to acknowledge how we as a team play now compared to then and what position he is required to play. If you acknowledge this then you will notice a player that hasn't regressed at all. Just that the team is now playing a completly different style to what it once was, you can't possibly fail to have noticed this have you?
 
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Literally EVERY post you fail to acknowledge how we as a team play now compared to then and what position he is required to play. If you acknowledge this then you will notice a player that hasn't regressed at all. Just that the team is now playing a completly different style to what it once was, you can't possibly fail to have noticed this have you?
The way we play has nothing to do with his touch, sharpness, decision making and finishing etc. I know we are playing in an uninspiring more pragmatic way. So are you saying that he has become a better player and developed in the way a young player should over the past couple of seasons?
 
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Dele Alli has so many excuses for him
I don't see people defending other players like this
The teams got worse and yet Son/Kane are still able to perform to a high standard
He plays in his position most of the time. Yes he played well when we played good and yes he's a skills player but at the moment he's playing awfully and doesn't deserve to start.
 
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The way we play has nothing to do with his touch, sharpness, decision making and finishing etc. I know we are playing in an uninspiring more pragmatic way. So are you saying that he has become a better player and developed in the way a young player should over the past couple of seasons?
And if you read what I wrote nor do I. I'm saying his touch and finishing is the same as it ever was, he's a one and two touch player, the player in our side that has always played the low % flicks and tricks. They were low % then and they are low % now. Then we played a beautiful aggressive, thrilling high-press and had the vast amount of possession of the ball and territory, we effectively were attacking most of the game to which he was constantly involved in. He still lost the ball, his flicks and tricks rarely came off and outside of his first season where he exceeded his own XG, he would also miss a ton of chances too (Kane would also miss scores of changes, whilst also scoring a ton of goals, no one took as many shots on goal as him).
 
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Dele Alli has so many excuses for him
I don't see people defending other players like this
The teams got worse and yet Son/Kane are still able to perform to a high standard
He plays in his position most of the time. Yes he played well when we played good and yes he's a skills player but at the moment he's playing awfully and doesn't deserve to start.
So, under Poch's last 1.8 months we didn't drop our high-press and play with a mid-block instead?

Under Jose, we don't park the bus in a low-block? We don't hoof it long?

Dele hasn't been asked to play as a lone striker and plays every game in his best position in the hole behind Kane.

Denying this would be all the proof any needs to suggest you haven't watched us play a min of football in the past three years.
 
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Airfixx

Cherub
As strange as it might sound, but certainly not at our captain.

Kane is probably the closest to what you call a natural leader.
I don't even mean leadership in that sense; just in terms of players who's base contribution doesn't need to be propped up by utopian circumstances. i.e. the notion of one's individual game not turning to shit when the team isn't playing well.

I dunno... Am I inadvertantly just alluding to the absolute elite?
 
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So, under Poch's last 1.8 months we didn't drop our high-press and play with a mid-block instead?

Under Jose, we don't park the bus in a low-block? We don't hoof it long?

Dele hasn't been asked to play as a lone striker and plays every game in his best position in the hole behind Kane.

Denying this would be all the proof any needs to suggest you haven't watched us play a min of football in the past three years.
I agree Poch's pressing style of play has affected him , but to be honest its affected the whole team. The whole team was much better when everyone was pressing.
Dele may be affected but it shouldn't be used as an excuse. In fact Dele's height and good touch should make him excel in this style of play. My concern is that his shooting is awful and that he is too sloppy on the ball , not sure thats Style of Play related?
 
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Airfixx

Cherub
I agree Poch's pressing style of play has affected him , but to be honest its affected the whole team. The whole team was much better when everyone was pressing.
Dele may be affected but it shouldn't be used as an excuse. In fact Dele's height and good touch should make him excel in this style of play. My concern is that his shooting is awful and that he is too sloppy on the ball , not sure thats Style of Play related?
It potentially means he's provided with different kinds of scoring opportunities. That said; I'd be right behind the idea of him putting the time in on the training ground working on his 18 yarders.... Same as all our players tbh.
 
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I agree Poch's pressing style of play has affected him , but to be honest its affected the whole team. The whole team was much better when everyone was pressing.
Dele may be affected but it shouldn't be used as an excuse. In fact Dele's height and good touch should make him excel in this style of play. My concern is that his shooting is awful and that he is too sloppy on the ball , not sure thats Style of Play related?
It's not that the style of football has "affected him", he is performing a different function, because the team is functioning differently. That function is deliberate, it is a deliberate ploy for Poch to drop a high-press and opt for a mid-block, the consequence was Dele was sometimes deployed in the double pivot but mainly in a significantly deeper position on the left of midfield (also floating in centrally). Just as it's a deliberate ploy of Jose's to play a low-block, where Dele also played deeper or latterly as a lone striker having long balls hoofed up to him. In both of these cases, Dele is used NOT in the position (Mainly in the hole, or off on the right of the hole behind the striker). When he was played in the hole, when Jose first joined Spurs, he was banging them in almost every game and everyone said: "We got our Dele back".

Do you not see the correlation here?
 
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Your delusional , no top team would want to sign Dele now . Your delusional if you can't accept he's massively regressed.

Under Mourinho he's been playing CAM so I don't want to hear these positional excuses , as with the DeBruyne comparison , De Bruyne plays all across a midfield and even on the wing sometimes , we don't use that as an excuse for him so why should we use it for Dele?

I've seen a lack of effort . I've seen him constantly trying flicks which over-complicate moves and end up ruining them. I've seen him miss a ton of chances with atrocious shooting ability.
His stats may look alright but he does not pass the eye test.
Where in my post did I say that he hadn't?

There is no way another top 6 team would pass up the chance to sign him. He walks into the Woolwich, Man Utd and Chelsea teams. Man City would love him as an option. The only one he wouldn't suit would be Liverpool because of their system. Utter drivel that they wouldn't sign him.
 
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