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It's been known for years that Dele is poor in training so why are people making out it's some kind of Mourinho vendetta? There were rumours circulating about it not long after he joined the club, Poch pretty much wrote in it his book, and Mourinho covered it in the documentary. It's not a new problem yet it's José's fault not the Dele's? Sorry, I'm not buying that.
Did the refs award United with another penalty after FT again?
My first name check, I'm flattered...
How can a player not being selected be accused of not contributing to team performance?
Especially when in the games he has been given meaningful minutes in he objectively has contributed in this manner?
The thing with Dele is he tries things, some don't come off, and he loses the ball, he is the epitome of "To Dare is to Do".
Does he try it too often, does it not come off too much, it's debatable but Mourinho is risk adverse and that's why Dele is out of favour. Bad trainer shite, comes from the Prime doco.
Ndombele at the weekend passed the ball backwards so many times I lost count, he's great on the ball and can beat a man with ease but Mourinho is training him to do that in the right places and at the right time, but 5 goals and 3 assists in 18 months* (6 months playing regularly) is hardly a good output for arguably our most creative player, shit Kane got 4 assists in one game.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing Mourinho, it is what it is, he coaches to minimise mistakes and that's fine, we're not losing by more than one goal when we lose and our GD shows that. It would be nice though if Mourinho would take the brake off sometimes, we've seen what happens when that happens in Yanited and Southampton (2nd half) away.
Dele will fly at PSG, but it will be a shame to lose him imho
*in the league
Does he try it too often, does it not come off too much, it's debatable but Mourinho is risk adverse and that's why Dele is out of favour. Bad trainer shite, comes from the Prime doco.
Ndombele at the weekend passed the ball backwards so many times I lost count, he's great on the ball and can beat a man with ease but Mourinho is training him to do that in the right places and at the right time, but 5 goals and 3 assists in 18 months* (6 months playing regularly) is hardly a good output for arguably our most creative player, shit Kane got 4 assists in one game.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing Mourinho, it is what it is, he coaches to minimise mistakes and that's fine, we're not losing by more than one goal when we lose and our GD shows that. It would be nice though if Mourinho would take the brake off sometimes, we've seen what happens when that happens in Yanited and Southampton (2nd half) away.
Dele will fly at PSG, but it will be a shame to lose him imho
*in the league
Why?
He signed a contract did he not? Where in his contract does it say, if you dont perform well enough and not get picked you can leave whenever you want on your own terms?
He fights for his place in the team or he leaves when its the right offer for the club ..
Just because fans have a soft spot for him doesnt mean he gets to do whatever he wants!
Where do people even want him to play? Does he get ahead of ndomble?
Does he play on the wing instead of berg?
What happens if bale starts to be fit and play? Does dele play ahead of a fit firing bale?
Does vinicius stay on the bench?
He needs to step up not just for spurs but his own career.. does he want to be another jesse lingard..
Ndombele Hojbjerg
Berg - Dele - Son
Kane
That front 6 would likely have managed more than 1 goal against Wolves, Palace, Fulham.
He hasn't had a chance to show form this year.
Must be showing nothing in training, because with 2 wins in 7 league games it's not as if we're slaying all before us in his absence.
So your moving ndomble back to accommodate dele?
Ndomble is better as a number 10..
So because dele is that team that means they would of scored more goals against wolves palace and Fulham haha
bore off againNdombele just had a motm performance and scored the best goal of his career playing in a 2 man midfield. He played himself into being worth 50-60m pounds in a few different roles, none of them at 10.
Even, if that's true (which it isn't)
Hojberg Ndombele
Dele
Is better than any combination with Winks or Sissoko in the deeper position.
More goals, more creativity, more pressing
Mourinho sees Ndombele as his #8.5 (what most people would traditionally call a #10) and that is his best role in the system. The core of the problem is the question of who is the playmaker that plays alongside PEH - which we currently do not have a good option for.
Your solution - play Ndombele next to PEH and Dele as #10
Mourinho's solution - play Ndombele in his long term #8.5 role, and try Sissoko/Winks next to PEH until we get a better option. (side note: Eriksen looked ok playing DLP for Inter)
My preference is for Mourinho's solution, as I dont want Ndombele to become more defensive and reduce his offensive contribution, but more importantly, I dont see Dele as a CAM in even a traditionsal 4-2-3-1. Under Poch, Eriksen was the CAM that gave that systematic creativity to the attack. None of Son, Dele, nor Bergwijn can provide that and thus the attack will likely become dysfunctional (like how ManU stuttered before they got Bruno)
Dele is a trequartista not a CAM, he is a totti not an Ozil. Thus your proposed solution will play Ndombele out of position just to fit Dele into a CAM role he is not suited for. The only thing you achieve is that Dele gets on the pitch ahead of Winks and Sissoko, but that it would translate into better results is questionable. (we were 3-0 up against Westham with Sissoko and still had chances to put the game away against other weaker opposition. Putting teams away is not as easy as some portray, as can be seen by the 1-0 wins by many other top clubs against 'weaker' teams.)
As for moving to PSG, Dele will likely have an even bigger problem at PSG, particularly as Mbappe and Neymar on the flanks means they desperately need a CAM even more
Dele is not exceptional enough to warrant building a team around him and he should instead round out and diversify his skill set to be more adaptable and relevant in different formations.
Where does this idea come from?
He has always been better for us playing deeper, breaking the lines and being available for PEH, Sissoko, Dier to pass to.
If he moves up not only does it take away the things he does best but unless GLC is in the line-up (and since he is a better 10 than anything why you would play he deep makes zero sense) there is nobody who could get him the ball anyways so he would be wasted.
Ndombele can play in a 10 role because he is talented but it is certainly not his best role, especially not with our squad.
Because if we can get money for him and he leaves it opens up a space and some money to bring in a player that can help us.
If someone is willing to pay for him why would you prefer that he sits on the bench, not playing and not doing anyone for us at all.
I don't really see him playing for us so we might as well use him to get us some money and free up a space on the team.
El Magnifico
All I'm propsing is that we make the best use of the players we have available and i think the midfield i propsed above is just that. I think it gets our best players on the pitch in the areas they will have the most impact.
I disagree that Ndombele is better suited to the advanced position and even if he was, the team right now needs passers able to play under pressure in the middle of the pitch in order to not get pinned back so easily - Ndombele is the best available player to do that, no one else is as comfortable on the ball as he is or able to play through the opposition like him. Essentially what we gain by having him deeper instead of Winks or Sissoko is of far greater value than what we lose by not having him in the advanced area.
Dele's numbers for final third play remain high, even last season and the one prior when he had supposedly gone to shit, more chances created, more assists, more goals, more passes in the opposition half- we don't lose anything by playing him in this area on the pitch instead of Ndomble. He showed in the 2 games he played there this season in the cups that he has the passing range, awareness and work rate required.
All I'm propsing is that we make the best use of the players we have available and i think the midfield i propsed above is just that. I think it gets our best players on the pitch in the areas they will have the most impact.
I disagree that Ndombele is better suited to the advanced position and even if he was, the team right now needs passers able to play under pressure in the middle of the pitch in order to not get pinned back so easily - Ndombele is the best available player to do that, no one else is as comfortable on the ball as he is or able to play through the opposition like him. Essentially what we gain by having him deeper instead of Winks or Sissoko is of far greater value than what we lose by not having him in the advanced area.
Dele's numbers for final third play remain high, even last season and the one prior when he had supposedly gone to shit, more chances created, more assists, more goals, more passes in the opposition half- we don't lose anything by playing him in this area on the pitch instead of Ndomble. He showed in the 2 games he played there this season in the cups that he has the passing range, awareness and work rate required.
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The evidence that you cite is actually counter to your point.
Whenever we have played a 4-2-3-1 (which is most games), Ndombele has always played the #8.5 role (many still call it #10) . All that you see and cite are cos he plays that #8.5 role.
If he moves deeper many of those qualities will go away e.g. he will pickup the ball deeper (from the GK or defence) and not from the midfield (PEH, Sissoko/Winks), play farther from opposition box, maintain rhythm more than provide incision, shield the defence than break up play further up to sustain pressure, will rarely be getting into the box but be taking long range shots etc.
Both GLC and Ndombele are similar players in their offence/defence balance and neither is suitable to play in a double pivot along side PEH. . To play them together would require a formation change to 4-3-3 with a real destroyer DM (like makele, Mascherano etc) behind them (doubt PEH can do it).
My guess is that long term, Ndombele will be the starting #8.5, with GLC as direct backup and also getting some minutes as RM
He already gets the ball from the defense as well as PEH and Sissoko. I don't see him playing the 10 role because we don't have anyone playing that role in our team and the closest to it is Kane. I would say though that our formation is so wonky because of the Sissoko role being so unique and limited that its hard to pigeon hole guys in specific roles.
Ndombele is better playing deeper than right behind the front 3 or 2 whatever we end up playing with. That is where GLC should be playing if we are using that role.
The idea is not to just have all our best players on the pitch but to have our best team (on both sides of the ball) on the pitch. Playing Ndombele in front of the defence and Dele up front will not acheive the latter (and recent form makes even the former questionable).
WIth the Dele setup, the midfield will be almost non-existent andgap between the defence onthe attack will leave us perpetually hoofing the ball. The team will likely be under sustained pressure even more.
Ndombele currently gets the ball around central midfield from defence or defensive midfielders (PEH/Sissoko/Winks). Playing deeper, he will be getting the ball in front of our box, from GK and defence.
There is a world of difference between getting the ball from GK in front of your own box and getting it around midfield from more defensive midfielders.
There is definitely a problem with the quality of the players alongside PEH but that shouldnt be an excuse to screw over the entire formation and make the overall team worse
Yes mate i appreciate it's more than just putting your best players in the team, and i think it's pretty clear from my postings that isn't what I'm doing here, we just disagree on how it'd play out in reality - pretty sure you were telling me last week that Ndombele couldn’t play CM prior to his MoM there v Sheffield for all those reasons you put forward in your second paragraph, so perhaps you aren't as clued up as you think? The team seemed pretty well balanced to me