Do we lack a worldie?

[Greaves357_bestever]

One thing that pisses me off about worldies is that they don't tend to stay too long at our club; maybe we will never be able to compete with the likes of Real or Barcelona, but it would sure be nice to have a world class player that was loyal to the club and led us to glory.

It would be nice, but unless we find a home-grown worldie like Hoddle, it's unlikely any of them will stay the sufficient amount of time these days. Why would they, they're not Spurs fans, most of the time apart from 1882 games there's nothing special about our crowd, and often it's a downright disgrace, plus our wages aren't exceptional.

Players like Bale are also fouled with impunity and yet get carded themselves if they fall over from these challenges. Worse some of our own fans turn on him and call him a 'diver' instead of attacking the real villains, the hatchet men who try to stop geniuses like him plyng their trade in the Prem.

For me, it was a no-brainer for Bale to go to Madrid, from his perspective.

As a crowd we need to back our players more, and 1882 is doing that, and ENIC have to find a lot more money, can't see that happening.

 

[JDK]

As disturbing as it is to say, the model to follow here would be the one Woolwich has achieved.

Like us, since the start of the '09 season we both have an overall negative net spend in the transfer market while having to sell many of our best players. During that time they patiently bedded in young players while adding solid
players like Cazorla, Giroud, Arteta, and Mertesacker. All the while the squad was able to mesh and gain a good understanding together. Then when they got the opportunity to get a player like Ozil they were able to take all the money they had stashed and add him to their established side.

For us, the last two summers we've added thirteen new first team players plus young players like Townsend, Rose, Carroll, and Fryers. Almost all the guys we have bought who are still with the squad were under the age of 25 at age of purchase (only Adebayor and Soldado were above). Now that we have a full squad, with plenty of depth at almost all positions we won't have to spend the transfer windows frantically looking to fill holes.

Instead, we can add promising youth and if the right situation arises to grab a star we have the cash with the new Premier league money to go out and get him.

Hopefully, the squad will gel as our players age and get more experienced with each other that if we do find a worldie it will put us over the top.

We are in the midst of a project to rebuild our side. It is off to an excellent start IMO when you look at our squad depth and youth. I believe our new goal will be to only add big time players and youth players because there really isn't room for anything else, barring positions like LB.

 

[Sanchez18]

Nahhh.
There's definitely potential of more worldies to be in our team but, I think that currently, as of now, we have one established worldie, i.e. Hugo Lloris.

I really love Super-Jan, and do believe he can fit straight away in most teams in this world, but...
I just feel that he needs just a tiny-weeny bit more time/experience to actually be considered a worldie.

Vertonghen would be a "first-11-er" for Bayern, Barca and arguably Real and Dortmund. Those are the four best teams in the world. For me, that makes him that "worldie"

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

Buying the wrong players for big money chasing success can be disastrous.. Go ask a Leeds supporter

It sure can be. The thing is Leeds didn't have the money, they just 'gambled the house' on success.
Teams like City and Chelsea have the money to ride disaster purchases. So do Utd, Liverpool and Woolwich to a lesser extent than City and Chelsea but all have huge income streams and massive worldwide fanbases. This gives them a clout that the next tier of clubs, of which we're the best, lack.

 

[JDK]

Buying the wrong players for big money chasing success can be disastrous.. Go ask a Leeds supporter

The concept of doing a Leeds or a Portsmouth is so outdated for a team like Tottenham. There is so much money in the league now that it would be almost impossible.

Plus, there are so many rich groups and people lining up to buy football teams that even in the extremely unlikelihood ENIC found itself in financial trouble that they could easily sell the team and a new group would handle the debts just to own a team.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

Good points JDK (re your previous post above), the difference is Woolwich have way more money coming in than we do. That means they can pay higher wages which helps to keep their players and entice others in, they also have a far bigger name than us.

The good thing is they keep 'bottling it' when it comes to winning things, long may that last

BUT they have kept in the CL, while building a new stadium. They may now start seeing tangible benefits, while we're still struggling to build our stadium.

Then again they may fuck it up this season, as they've done ever since they left Highbury

Long live the curse of the Emirates

 

[pjohn5]

Long live the curse of the Emirates

- love that they have all the trophy years as a banner, it's a reminder and quite tacky

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

- love that they have all the trophy years as a banner, it's a reminder and quite tacky

It is soooooo funny they can't win anything in their shiny new stadium. But I guess sooner or later all good things come to an end. I've probably got forty years max left on this planet, if the curse can last that long, that'll help keep me going in my old age

 

[Super Jan Fan]

I don't think winning it in the foreseeable is out of the question. This year is very unlikely, and next year too but after that I don't see why not. Our up and coming players will be better, more experienced, well hopefully have more confidence, and maybe the worldwide were talking about.

 

[JDK]

Good points JDK (re your previous post above), the difference is Woolwich have way more money coming in than we do. That means they can pay higher wages which helps to keep their players and entice others in, they also have a far bigger name than us.

The good thing is they keep 'bottling it' when it comes to winning things, long may that last

BUT they have kept in the CL, while building a new stadium. They may now start seeing tangible benefits, while we're still struggling to build our stadium.

Then again they may fuck it up this season, as they've done ever since they left Highbury

Long live the curse of the Emirates

While they have certainly have advantages that we don't have like Champions league and a bigger completed stadium, they don't behave as such. Nothing -- besides Ozil -- that they have in the transfer market is something that we couldn't do.

Make no bones about it, premier league teams now have a massive advantage in buying from abroad due to the cash teams have. I think it is pretty clear that an uptick in wage is one if the big reasons we were able to grab Soldado and Lamela. The effect was also seen in the ability of lower level teams being able to attract quality talent from abroad like Remy, Medel, Van Wolfswinkel, Wanyama, and even Capoue almost went to Cardiff. For that reason I think we'll still be able to attract some quality talent.

Overall, if we make Champions league I think we will really have the power to grab a big name player. Even if we don't, we still have the money to make a splash.

 

[AtoubaMagic]

Hugo Lloris and Jan Vertonghen.

I genuinely have concerns that those 2 will be off sooner rather than later. Both would make the starting 11 of most teams.

 

[Arjun]

Of course we do. We bought one of the most well established strikers in Europe who just came off a 30 goal season with Valencia.

It's just we're not using him right.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

I don't think winning it in the foreseeable is out of the question. This year is very unlikely, and next year too but after that I don't see why not. Our up and coming players will be better, more experienced, well hopefully have more confidence, and maybe the worldwide were talking about.

It's good you're optimistic SJF, but unless we can bridge the 'money gap' I just can't see us winning the title this decade at least.

Every winner of the Prem, without exception, has been part of the 'money elite'. The only 'surprise name' you'll see is Blackburn, but they were bankrolled to a huge extent by Jack Walker and 'bought the title' just as Chelsea and City have. It just took a lot less money to do twenty years ago. Today's opponents nearly did the same when Sir John Hall was barreling money into them in the 90s.

No club as 'relatively poor' as us has ever won the Prem, and while it's nice to believe it could happen, I just don't see it. Of course if ENIC have a change of heart and start pumping cash into us on a large scale then it becomes realistic. But will they, especially with a stadium to part-finance, my belief is they won't.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

While they have certainly have advantages that we don't have like Champions league and a bigger completed stadium, they don't behave as such. Nothing -- besides Ozil -- that they have in the transfer market is something that we couldn't do.

Make no bones about it, premier league teams now have a massive advantage in buying from abroad due to the cash teams have. I think it is pretty clear that an uptick in wage is one if the big reasons we were able to grab Soldado and Lamela. The effect was also seen in the ability of lower level teams being able to attract quality talent from abroad like Remy, Medel, Van Wolfswinkel, Wanyama, and even Capoue almost went to Cardiff. For that reason I think we'll still be able to attract some quality talent.

Overall, if we make Champions league I think we will really have the power to grab a big name player. Even if we don't, we still have the money to make a splash.

Good points as usual JDK, but there are some key points that separate Woolwich from us. Firstly they pay higher wages, so in that respect they do behave differently from us. Secondly, they've built a stadium, and so they have a income stream that will dwarf ours for the foreseeable future, and at any time they could start using that money to buy players on a scale we couldn't match on ENIC's current MO.

Yes we can attract quality talent, but can we attract enough and keep it? For all Woolwich's wealth even they can't win the Prem, or indeed anything else recently. We have to match and better not just Woolwich, but four other clubs who are richer than us.

It's good to be optimistic, but the reality is if we finish 4th we're overachieving in Prem terms. To finish first under our current budget restrictions would be a financial miracle the like of which the Prem has never seen.

 

[OZHotspur]

The concept of doing a Leeds or a Portsmouth is so outdated for a team like Tottenham. There is so much money in the league now that it would be almost impossible.

Plus, there are so many rich groups and people lining up to buy football teams that even in the extremely unlikelihood ENIC found itself in financial trouble that they could easily sell the team and a new group would handle the debts just to own a team.

I think i agree with you...I should have clarified my point though in the context of the thread topic...
Selling potentially THE top player of his generation and potentially one of the greats of the game to buy players that may or may not become world class is a massive risk...not finacially as we sold bale for $$$ but a risk of our hardfought position and status gains we have made in the prem in the last decade or so..
And u are right that there are ppl with big $$$ almost queuing up to buy prem teams which means just because we are building a big stadium and have a large local fanbase wont gurentee's us our position in the future...we need to be smart with who we buy or sell.

I do think Levy and Baldini are on the right track though...(given finances etc etc)

 

[OZHotspur]

Whilst I loved modric and berba, don't think ether of them are in ther same catergory as bale...
Modric and Berba were sold relatively high and whilst talented are 'replaceable'...
Not sure Bale is replaceable, which means although we got big $$$ for him its not the only consideration when selling him..
Will tottenham ever produce or buy someone with Bale's talent in the next decade? I doubt it...(given finances etc etc and the fact that these players to not come around often)

 

[JDK]

Whilst I loved modric and berba, don't think ether of them are in ther same catergory as bale...
Modric and Berba were sold relatively high and whilst talented are 'replaceable'...
Not sure Bale is replaceable, which means although we got big $$$ for him its not the only consideration when selling him..
Will tottenham ever produce or buy someone with Bale's talent in the next decade? I doubt it...(given finances etc etc and the fact that these players to not come around often)

Did we really have a choice to sell Bale? He was refusing to train and quite clearly doing everything in his power to leave. Selling him for a world record fee certainly seems like it was the only logical choice.

 

[OZHotspur]

Did we really have a choice to sell Bale? He was refusing to train and quite clearly doing everything in his power to leave. Selling him for a world record fee certainly seems like it was the only logical choice.

I def agree with you on this point...we had to sell bale given he wanted to go and the money on offer...
The success of this from spurs persepctive though is how the sucessful the players we bought with the $$$ turn out to be...
e.g liverpool are cheering they got $50 mil for torres as his played shit since leaving and part of tht $$$ they used to get suarez. But just say torres was banging them in, suarez was a flop and Carroll, downing, and henderson ( do i need to mention how shit they are) was the result of all that $$$ do u think they would be as happy with the sale?
I no its a moot point, considering bale wanted to go, just saying we shouldnt judge the sucess of the bale sale simply by the $$$..
I know im from OZ so little bit of an outsider but my old man was told me of the days when he went to WHL and we were top of the prem..i no its a different world and league but im a firm beleiver in that ur only as good as the 11 men on the pitch...this gives me hope that we some good scouting, lucky buys and some fucking hard work we can be up there again...COYS #ibelieve

 

[shawry1882]

AVB and Levy taking the build a Champion TEAM vs buying a worldie with the Bale money.
That's the best strategy we can adopt atm.

 

[OZHotspur]

AVB and Levy taking the build a Champion TEAM vs buying a worldie with the Bale money.
That's the best strategy we can adopt atm.

of the players he bought only 2 in my opinion have the potencial of being world class eriksen and lamela...for 85 million plus the 20 from other sales we prob could have bought 2-3 worldies even in this current overpriced market...
i do agree with your point about it being the best strategy though, just not sure its one thats going to get us into the top 4, considering all the other teams in the top 6 have at least one worldie...