England squad

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Thanks for properly addressing this. Can always rely on you to be the adult in the room, Cranny! That's why you're one of my faves.
Cranston said:
You compress the pitch.

Defence play 20 yards further up the pitch. That reduces the distance between the 8 and 10. If he’s not prepared to make a call between Bellingham and Foden then play the former at 8 and Foden at 10. That would reduce the need for pace on the wings but would need Harry to stay high.
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Yes, ok, this would be helpful...but how do you transition the ball out of MF when none of your MFers can pass? MF setup/formation would have to be established to really have this convo (2 vs 3) but Rice does not offer for the ball and is a station to station passer when he has it. And Bellingham is not a substitute for Kroos either. So how do you get the ball out of MF?
Cranston said:
Alternatively, if we insist on being timid, you progress the ball out of midfield to runners off Kane. He drops, Gordon, Saka, whoever, run off him. If we wanted to play this way we should have probably taken Rashford or Sterling.
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Right, so we're back to the Kane doing both jobs, staying high AND dropping deep because all the parts don't fit and he's the only one that can handle the generalized remit of his position. And this goes to my point about the players not being as good as their club play might suggest because their deficiencies are covered by their very talented teammates whereas with England, and this has to do with Southgate's team selection, their deficiencies are magnified.

Yeah, picking a style and selecting players accordingly (like poss Rashford and Sterling) would have helped but he has Gordon to run and he's not using it either.
Cranston said:
There are many ways to skin a cat. Play five at the back if needs be.
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I'm a major fan of 3/5ATB so any suggestion therein is always gonna find favor with me.
 
RicharliSon said:
There isn't a single Chelsea fan that would tell you that Palmer wasn't their best player last season. Absolutely nobody would mention Jackson or Cucurella for fucks sake.
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Again, NOT my contention that Jackson or Cucurella was Chelsea's BEST player...and I've reiterated it to clear up any ambiguity that YOU'VE introduced. So, good that no chelsea supporter would say this as neither am I. But beyond that, it doesn't matter to my England points that you are assiduously avoiding while forcefully countering this strawman you are introducing.

My point with Palmer as with many other England players is they are not as good as their club profiles would suggest (specifically profiles built on goal contributions) as they are not the players that are instigating play...they are the beneficiaries on the whole. Put them altogether and you've got a disparate team of system players with no defined system...put another way, and to harken back to the article that spawned this convo...too many pianists and no one to carry the piano...but also no conductor.

RicharliSon said:
Maybe I'll give a more thorough reply when I'm not keeping an eye on the football, but without Palmer they would have been bottom half.
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You won't as you've shown your stripes...always seem to show in the England threads. And my points are strong which is why you've gone down this path...twice!
 
todd1882 said:
And Bellingham is not a substitute for Kroos either. So how do you get the ball out of MF?
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I’m not under any illusion as to how good England are. I don’t expect us to win. I just want to see us actually play football.

So, to the above point. Bellingham isn’t good enough to do the job for Real Madrid but I’m pretty sure he could do a good job of it in a tournament. And if not, well Gareth needs to accept that Foden and Bellingham play in the same position and simply make that call.

Rice has looked really poor so far; incredibly wooden on the ball, but he’s been given zero support by players that would, if Gareth allowed them, be happy to drop. Foden is isolated on the left, Harry has too much distance to cover and Bellingham looks lost.

Rice absolutely cannot handle a stretched midfield. Even Arteta has twigged that. He simply cannot pass the ball.

I think Bellingham should be told his job is to always be available for Rice and find a way to move the ball up the pitch. If he can’t do it, so be it. I think bringing Foden in centrally to fill the space that Bellingham leaves would help his game too.
 
Gmspurs said:
Deuterz was on a mixture of excitement and also on a bit of a wind up in relation to his optimism about the national team.

But why shouldn't he be allowed a bit of escapism every couple of years a tournament is on.

As you say, this happens every time a tournament is on. Fans of opposing national teams come on and tell us how bad we are, how we're arrogant and ignorant and delusional.....
And how were not as good as we think we are.

Same old same old - I've said this countless times that I find it a bit sad and bizarre that they feel the need to do this.

I couldn't imagine being an English PSG supporter and then when the Euros or World Cup come on, go on the PSG forum and tell the French fans how bad they are and how crap their national team is.

It's just a bit sad really - but each to their own.
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Free Deuterz Deuterz for the knockouts.
 
Cranston said:
So, to the above point. Bellingham isn’t good enough to do the job for Real Madrid but I’m pretty sure he could do a good job of it in a tournament. And if not, well Gareth needs to accept that Foden and Bellingham play in the same position and simply make that call.
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I've been spouting into the void (and by the void I mean into Deuterz' metaphorical earhole via PM) that Bellingham is not being helped by scoring these goals playing the 10 for RM. He's not developing him MF game and growing an entitlement unwarranted by his general play. But I've also said that he should play deeper for England with Foden (think Palmer would be a better shout though Gary would not do this) at the 10. Of course Deuterz Deuterz just deflected while telling me that I hate England...it's his finishing move so I forgive him.

Cranston said:
Rice has looked really poor so far; incredibly wooden on the ball, but he’s been given zero support by players that would, if Gareth allowed them, be happy to drop. Foden is isolated on the left, Harry has too much distance to cover and Bellingham looks lost.

Rice absolutely cannot handle a stretched midfield. Even Arteta has twigged that. He simply cannot pass the ball.
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YES!!!! All of this.

Cranston said:
I think Bellingham should be told his job is to always be available for Rice and find a way to move the ball up the pitch. If he can’t do it, so be it. I think bringing Foden in centrally to fill the space that Bellingham leaves would help his game too.
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Yes, this could work...but so could taking a chance on the Palace kid that has shown a more confident passing game than the other two AND a penchant for reading the game as opposed to chasing the ball around like Rice. This would place Bellingham and Rice as 8s and leave the opportunity to put Foden on the RW (as he often plays for City) and Gordon LW. Either way, Bellingham at the 10 has got to stop.
 
Got a feeling it will start to click tomorrow. The games mean something now and shabby, low energy performances won't cut it. We have the players to raise our game considerably. Think we'll win by a couple tomorrow and take some much needed belief into the game against Switzerland which is very winnable, despite them being a good team.

Everybody would have snapped someone's hand off at the thought of Switzerland standing in the way of a semi-final, should we progress tomorrow. Take nothing away from them, they dispatched a really poor and sluggish Italy side earlier on.
 
RicharliSon said:
Got a feeling it will start to click tomorrow. The games mean something now and shabby, low energy performances won't cut it. We have the players to raise our game considerably. Think we'll win by a couple tomorrow and take some much needed belief into the game against Switzerland which is very winnable, despite them being a good team.

Everybody would have snapped someone's hand off at the thought of Switzerland standing in the way of a semi-final, should we progress tomorrow. Take nothing away from them, they dispatched a really poor and sluggish Italy side earlier on.
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Odds on a promising performance against Slovakia only for Southgate to revert back to Gallagher for the Quarters :sherwoodlol:
 
Football Chap said:
Odds on a promising performance against Slovakia only for Southgate to revert back to Gallagher for the Quarters :sherwoodlol:
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At some point the gravity of the occasion will get the better of him and send him even further into his shell than he has been thus far (which laughably is actually him at his most experimental*).


(*Tinkering with one position at a time without the safety blanket of Maguire, Henderson & Sterling.).
 
RicharliSon said:
Sorry mate. Usually you make some good points, but I had to stop reading when you tried to convince yourself that Palmer wasn't Chelsea's best player last season and put Jackson and Cucurella in the same sentence as him. The latter had about 4 good games, all at the back end of the season.
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And Jackson only scored his goals against us. 🤣
 
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