****England v Italy Euros FINAL 11/07/21 8pm*****

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Penalty taking order last night was based on historic penalty conversion rates and stats from training. So there was logic. But seems like it ignored the ability to cope with pressure.
I read, not sure if it's true or not, that Saka has NEVER taken a senior penalty. It's insane to put him 5th.

I agree with Harry taking the first, that's a no brainer to me.

The thing is, I'm not even opposed to Saka taking one of the penalties, but you just can't put him 5th. If you swap him and Rashford in the order, I don't think that's criminal at all. I wouldn't have picked Saka at all probably, but to me, the worse crime is having him take the 5th one.
 
Saka is a great young player and he'll have a super career. He stepped up when others didn't so fair play to him. But he's not a good striker of the ball. He has plenty of attributes, shooting isn't one of them. Add that to the fact that he didn't play at all well when coming on like he had when starting previous games, he was only ever going to miss.
 
I've just read that Pickford was due to take the 6th penalty

It's just utterly baffling that we didn't try to win the match in normal or extra time
I'd love to know why he didn't get one of Trippier, Grealish, Walker, Sterling or even Stones to take a penalty.

I'd also say that there is bugger all point in practising penalties - obviously doesn't make a blind bit of difference and if anything, it probably mucks with your head.
 
Rashford made a right tit of himself. Managers really should start stopping players from doing these silly run ups. Marcus couldn't have over-complicated his penalty any more if he tried.
 
Rashford made a right tit of himself. Managers really should start stopping players from doing these silly run ups. Marcus couldn't have over-complicated his penalty any more if he tried.
Just get in on target as hard as you can - if the keeper saves it then that's just the way it is.

Not hitting the target is the only guaranteed way to not score.
 
Rashford made a right tit of himself. Managers really should start stopping players from doing these silly run ups. Marcus couldn't have over-complicated his penalty any more if he tried.

I've been saying it for ages now..... If I was manager; you do that once, you're never taking a penalty again.
 
I've been saying it for ages now..... If I was manager; you do that once, you're never taking a penalty again.

I could understand it a bit more if Rashford was flying. But he's been in pretty poor form at club level and has barely had a kick in the Euro's, including last night where he was on for about 1 minute prior to his spot-kick. Madness.

He's one player that I don't actually think has improved much at all over the last 4 or 5 years. He's no better or more consistent now than he was when he was first starting out.
 
I've been saying it for ages now..... If I was manager; you do that once, you're never taking a penalty again.
The Jorginho/Fernandes jump thing is actually really effective at fucking with a keeper’s timing. It’s all variations on that theme. And Rashford got him, just at the price of putting himself off.

Still, for me professional footballers ought to be able to just blast an unsaveable top bins rocket fairly reliably. They don’t though, there must be a reason.
 
The Jorginho/Fernandes jump thing is actually really effective at fucking with a keeper’s timing. It’s all variations on that theme. And Rashford got him, just at the price of putting himself off.

Still, for me professional footballers ought to be able to just blast an unsaveable top bins rocket fairly reliably. They don’t though, there must be a reason.

Agreed.

They're seeking an edge which IMO shouldn't be necessary... It's advantage taker from the off; keepers aren't expected to save pens.
 
Agreed.

They're seeking an edge which IMO shouldn't be necessary... It's advantage taker from the off; keepers aren't expected to save pens.
Donnarumma isn’t a normal keeper, the sheer physics of a guy of that size, explosiveness and reaction speed makes it a different challenge.

Kane is impossible to read and put a low hard shot into the side netting and it was still almost saved.

You have to build your strategy for the final backwards from the reality of Donnarumma vs Pickford being more 75/25 than a coin flip. Southgate was much too willing to let pens decide it.
 
I could understand it a bit more if Rashford was flying. But he's been in pretty poor form at club level and has barely had a kick in the Euro's, including last night where he was on for about 1 minute prior to his spot-kick. Madness.

He's one player that I don't actually think has improved much at all over the last 4 or 5 years. He's no better or more consistent now than he was when he was first starting out.

Yeh Greenwood should be brought in his potential and talent is greater.
 
Donnarumma isn’t a normal keeper, the sheer physics of a guy of that size, explosiveness and reaction speed makes it a different challenge.

Kane is impossible to read and put a low hard shot into the side netting and it was still almost saved.

You have to build your strategy for the final backwards from the reality of Donnarumma vs Pickford being more 75/25 than a coin flip. Southgate was much too willing to let pens decide it.

I don't disagree, but you don't face Donnarumma week in week out..... Back yourself like the two Harrys did and more likely than not you score.
 
I don't disagree, but you don't face Donnarumma week in week out..... Back yourself like the two Harrys did and more likely than not you score.
I guess Sancho and Saka just aren't ball strikers of that caliber.

That's another part of the calculation, how good of penalty takers do you have? Bar Kane, does anyone in the squad regularly take them at club level?

Strategically, when a vastly superior team is in extra time against a lesser opponent, they are playing balls-out because they understand their chances from a game scenario greatly exceed the randomness of penalties. England was in sort of an inverse of that situation but failed to appreciate it.
 
I guess Sancho and Saka just aren't ball strikers of that caliber.

Perhaps not, but they weren't the ones poncing around with fancy run-ups (See Rashford: whom on occasion has been known to 'bury' a pen)....

I have little gripe with Sancho & Saka tbf; I appreciate their balls to step up....

Rashford however - despite his years - is a more senior member of this squad (and his club).

That's another part of the calculation, how good of penalty takers do you have? Bar Kane, does anyone in the squad regularly take them at club level?

Strategically, when a vastly superior team is in extra time against a lesser opponent, they are playing balls-out because they understand their chances from a game scenario greatly exceed the randomness of penalties. England was in sort of an inverse of that situation but failed to appreciate it.

Yup.
 
The hate Southgate is getting is a joke and that’s coming from one of his biggest critics , his defensive football and approach got us to our first final in how many years? So why would he change it on the night? I agree he needs to learn to utilise our attack more while keeping us solid at the back , but talk of him going before the World Cup is pathetic.
 
I could understand it a bit more if Rashford was flying. But he's been in pretty poor form at club level and has barely had a kick in the Euro's, including last night where he was on for about 1 minute prior to his spot-kick. Madness.

He's one player that I don't actually think has improved much at all over the last 4 or 5 years. He's no better or more consistent now than he was when he was first starting out.

I think utd stunted his progress

Instead of signing Zlatan they should have played Rashford at centre forward
 
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