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Management ENIC

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ENIC In or ENIC Out

  • Total voters
    209
Deuterz said:
Pretty fucking obvious that we're valued at an incredible fee due to the "infrastructure" etc and that this would put off major buyers.

Lolol ok - if you actually think we can come close to a CL or league with our current wage structure you are delulu.

Uh, Newcastle have gone from relegation candidates to a better team than us within a matter of a few years LMAO. Their spending has pushed them above us despite a huge gap existing to make up. Villa the same - relegation level team, spending has put them above us as a club. Everton and United are an example of clubs spending decent money terribly but high spending + high investment in wages on the right players elevates teams. Fulham? Their spending is decent at best and has made them a mid-table prem team.

Yeah, we were there before these teams got their new, ambitious owners and then they've kicked us back in to the dirt.

Liverpool spend more on wages, they invest more in elite managers, they are willing to spend huge on individuals who change the game, we are not similar. This club under ENIC is going nowhere. We just finished 17th. Prior to that 5th was celebrated as awesome, and will be again this season because 5th is our ceiling now, we are nowhere close to even the 4th best team in Chelsea who are now signing Xavi Simons just so Palmer can get some rest. The ENIC cultists are absolutely delusional about our place in the prem now.
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I'm not delusional about our place in the Prem right now, in fact I was disgusted by it, and would consider last season an absolute disaster if we hadn't gotten back into the CL.

So we got in through the back door in the end. We're still in, and that means we are both back in the mix for good, hungry players looking to explode, and have another shot at a deep run amongst the world's best. That means something to me, as a fan, and it's where I want to be.

For the league, I'm glad we've changed coaches and for the first time since Poch I feel genuinely excited about what he might achieve with the resources assembled by the ownership. I could be wrong and he could be sacked by Xmas, but I fancy Frank is exactly the profile of manager we need to put us back in contention for Top 4, maybe even the title. You might scoff, but it wasn't so long ago that this was a reality for us.

The landscape has changed, a couple of rich badges have traded places in and out of the Top 4, but our mission this season is the same as always: punch above our weight and hope for preparation to meet opportunity. I'm feeling good about the new project.

At least for now.
 
Datzlo said:
I'm not delusional about our place in the Prem right now, in fact I was disgusted by it, and would consider last season an absolute disaster if we hadn't gotten back into the CL.

So we got in through the back door in the end. We're still in, and that means we are both back in the mix for good, hungry players looking to explode, and have another shot at a deep run amongst the world's best. That means something to me, as a fan, and it's where I want to be.

For the league, I'm glad we've changed coaches and for the first time since Poch I feel genuinely excited about what he might achieve with the resources assembled by the ownership. I could be wrong and he could be sacked by Xmas, but I fancy Frank is exactly the profile of manager we need to put us back in contention for Top 4, maybe even the title. You might scoff, but it wasn't so long ago that this was a reality for us.

The landscape has changed, a couple of rich badges have traded places in and out of the Top 4, but our mission this season is the same as always: punch above our weight and hope for preparation to meet opportunity. I'm feeling good about the new project.

At least for now.
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We have no shot at a deep run against the world's best. We are going to be hideously exposed. The CL is not the EL, you can't fluke it with draws against Bodo Glimt and Az Alkmaar or face Manchester United in a final. We may sneak through the league format but as soon as we face a top 10 European team we will be going home.

Top 4 next season is borderline impossible. Woolwich, Chelsea and City are lightyears ahead of us. The quality of squad they have is superior, the players they are targeting are superior. I like Frank, he's a good coach, but he's not a magician. We are being completely left behind by these clubs - they are operating with totally different models. Put us in contention for the title? Mate... the Spurs team that was close to this existed in a bit of a iffy era for the Prem and was superior in every single position on the field, it was a miracle.

If Frank can finish ahead of even a Chelsea with their resources and their quality then fuck me .. build him a statue.
 
Deuterz said:
We have no shot at a deep run against the world's best. We are going to be hideously exposed.
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Then so fucking what? What does it change? But I don't know if we're going to fare as badly as you say, certainly against teams who aren't the big boys. Against Bayern or Madrid? Yes of course they're going to humble us, and we're just going to have to swallow our pride and accept that's where we are now.

But at least we're in it, and that's important to Bill Nicholson.

Deuterz said:
The CL is not the EL, you can't fluke it with draws against Bodo Glimt and Az Alkmaar or face Manchester United in a final. We may sneak through the league format but as soon as we face a top 10 European team we will be going home.

Top 4 next season is borderline impossible.
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Then once again, we have to accept that's where we are again after the hey-day of Poch. To me, this is why chasing the trophy dragon with nobshines like Mourinho and Conte was the worst move ENIC could have made, and it's far harder for me to forgive them for that than it is to get over Ange because at least Ange gave it a shot, and ultimately delivered in his own way. All the chemistry, purpose and identity we had under Poch was squandered and lost during the "I'm a Winner" appointment period, and that's why we now find ourselves on the outside looking in again to the Top 4.

So let's get fucking started on fixing it. Rather than complaining about how we're not rivaling Liverpool for transfers right now, let's remember what got them to the point where they can now spend so freely. They built a squad with patience and purpose, and when they got Klopp their preparations all came good, but even then he didn't start by trying for the best and most sought-after players in the world. He started by getting the right players, overlooked or primed to explode, for great value.

For those with long memories, that's how Fergie did it too, in the early years, and so did Wenger. So did we, when we shook the pillars of the mighty and were enjoying beating reigning champions Madrid in our back yard, when all the world expected them to smash us.

So we go again. Give Frank a season to see what he can do, and if we're not ready yet to break back into the Top 4, then tough shit for us. We'll have to try and help him out again next summer. What I do know is trying to bankrupt ourselves to get Mbappe would have worked out about as well as Jose.

Deuterz said:
Woolwich, Chelsea and City are lightyears ahead of us.
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Chelsea and City are billionaire play-things who can afford to completely upset the financial balance of European football. We can't compete with them. Woolwich spent two years coming 8th before Arteta's little project started to look good.

That kind of patience is what we're going to have to give Frank if we want to overtake them again.
 
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CJJ said:
It does weaken your argument significantly if it contradicts your points, though
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It doesn't because my argument is that ENIC's model of club ownership isn't fit to win major titles in 2025. It is a business first, safety first model which prioritises sustainability. The clubs pushing up the table now don't care about this or even PSR, they push boundaries, they force their way up the table by spending big. Our competitor for fourth is now Chelsea, a club doing everything imaginable to get back to the top. You think ENIC can compete with this with their model?

We haven't progressed in any measurable way since Poch left. It's been one OK season followed by shit, pretty much. And clubs around us have kicked us down the table. Our competitors now are Villa and Newcastle and another season anything like ours and it'll be Fulham and Brighton.

RIP the ENIC model.
 
Datzlo said:
Then so fucking what? What does it change? But I don't know if we're going to fare as badly as you say, certainly against teams who aren't the big boys. Against Bayern or Madrid? Yes of course they're going to humble us, and we're just going to have to swallow our pride and accept that's where we are now.

But at least we're in it, and that's important to Bill Nicholson.



Then once again, we have to accept that's where we are again after the hey-day of Poch. To me, this is why chasing the trophy dragon with nobshines like Mourinho and Conte was the worst move ENIC could have made, and it's far harder for me to forgive them for that than it is to get over Ange because at least Ange gave it a shot, and ultimately delivered in his own way. All the chemistry, purpose and identity we had under Poch was squandered and lost during the "I'm a Winner" appointment period, and that's why we now find ourselves on the outside looking in again to the Top 4.

So let's get fucking started on fixing it. Rather than complaining about how we're not rivaling Liverpool for transfers right now, let's remember what got them to the point where they can now spend so freely. They built a squad with patience and purpose, and when they got Klopp their preparations all came good, but even then he didn't start by trying for the best and most sought-after players in the world. He started by getting the right players, overlooked or primed to explode, for great value.

For those with long memories, that's how Fergie did it too, in the early years, and so did Wenger. So did we, when we shook the pillars of the mighty and were enjoying beating reigning champions Madrid in our back yard, when all the world expected them to smash us.

So we go again. Give Frank a season to see what he can do, and if we're not ready yet to break back into the Top 4, then tough shit for us. We'll have to try and help him out again next summer. What I do know is trying to bankrupt ourselves to get Mbappe would have worked out about as well as Jose.



Chelsea and City and billionaire play-things who can afford to completely upset the financial balance of European football. We can't compete with them. Woolwich spent two years coming 8th before Arteta's little project started to look good.

That kind of patience is what we're going to have to give Frank if we want to overtake them again.
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We overtook Woolwich after they spent years penny pinching and being "sustainable" - not in their era of 100m transfers and spending 250m+ in a window as a matter of standard course.

I think we should give Frank plenty of time and believe him to be a good coach but to get us competing with clubs who do this (and already have a huge squad advantage + a better academy) he will need to be nothing short of a miracle worker. Everything is stacked against him.
 
Deuterz said:
We overtook Woolwich after they spent years penny pinching and being "sustainable" - not in their era of 100m transfers and spending 250m+ in a window as a matter of standard course.

I think we should give Frank plenty of time and believe him to be a good coach but to get us competing with clubs who do this (and already have a huge squad advantage + a better academy) he will need to be nothing short of a miracle worker. Everything is stacked against him.
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You and others have been impressed with their transfer business for years now.

What has that given them that you would be happy with?
 
LeParisien said:
You and others have been impressed with their transfer business for years now.

What has that given them that you would be happy with?
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Oh please. They took a title race to the final day the season before last and were CL finalists last season ... we can absolutely banter them for missing that final ingredient which wins stuff, but there's absolutely loads to be happy with if you're a fan of them. Imagine if we finished 2nd, got to a CL semi and then were signing Zubimendi and Gyokores - you'd be jizzing everywhere and so would 99% of the forum.

They are a very good team and continue to clearly want to push boundaries. It may not work and if it doesn't we can keep laughing at them from way behind the chasing pack but as a team we don't even compare right now.
 
FightingIllini said:
Fucking hell mate, you're not even rhetorically constructing this dull as dishwater Levybot troll correctly.

Honestly, you guys aren't worth the effort.
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It's so fucking boring.

The reality is most of us were very happy under Poch and enjoying the ride. We were annoyed when we finished 2nd/3rd/4th and then signed NOBODY or Nkoudou + Janssen. We definitely wouldn't be annoyed if we were in that position and spending 200m+ a window.

Laugh at them all you want. They're bottlers, a team will probably always be better than them. But their owners are obviously bloody trying. Anyone pretending otherwise is just trolling on here.
 
FightingIllini said:
Fucking hell mate, you're not even rhetorically constructing this dull as dishwater Levybot troll correctly.

Honestly, you guys aren't worth the effort.
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You are avoiding the question.

What I want is for you to be clear about what would satisfy you so that you don’t perpetually move the goalposts.

Your resistance to that speaks volume. The ENIC out crowd argue whatever it takes to bash our club. It’s very transparent and extremely disingenuous.
 
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Deuterz said:
Oh please. They took a title race to the final day the season before last and were CL finalists last season ... we can absolutely banter them for missing that final ingredient which wins stuff, but there's absolutely loads to be happy with if you're a fan of them. Imagine if we finished 2nd, got to a CL semi and then were signing Zubimendi and Gyokores - you'd be jizzing everywhere and so would 99% of the forum.

They are a very good team and continue to clearly want to push boundaries. It may not work and if it doesn't we can keep laughing at them from way behind the chasing pack but as a team we don't even compare right now.
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So you’re happy with the results Woolwich have had on the pitch and if we did the same you would also be happy?

It’s a very simple question.

Results on the pitch. Not winning transfer windows or whatever you online cucks get excited over.
 
LeParisien said:
So you’re happy with the results Woolwich have had on the pitch and if we did the same you would also be happy?

It’s a very simple question.

Results on the pitch. Not winning transfer windows or whatever you online cucks get excited over.
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Would I be happy with 2nd in the premier league and CL semi finals? Fucking yes hahahahaha, are you high?

I'd obviously want MORE because fans who aren't fucking losers always want their team to be better, but I'd be content the club was trying to do more. Our fucking golden era where I absolutely loved supporting us had our absolute peak of finishing 2nd FFS.

I have no idea what you're trying to prove because we both know that if swapped positions as clubs you'd be absolutely creaming over how well we were doing.
 
Deuterz said:
We overtook Woolwich after they spent years penny pinching and being "sustainable" - not in their era of 100m transfers and spending 250m+ in a window as a matter of standard course.
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We overtook Woolwich after they blew their wad on overpaying players like Ozil and Sanchez, while we were still picking up the likes of Dele, Toby and Son.

Deuterz said:
I think we should give Frank plenty of time and believe him to be a good coach but to get us competing with clubs who do this (and already have a huge squad advantage + a better academy) he will need to be nothing short of a miracle worker. Everything is stacked against him.
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Sure, but it always is for us, including the lasagna. Trying for miracles is what we do.
 
LeParisien said:
What has that given them that you would be happy with?
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Amazing how our views change depending on context... not an observation about you, necessarily, but about the general sentiment of the board.

I recall during the last part of the Poch era having many conversations with posters here calling for Poch to go (and applauding it when it happened)... yes, we were consistently competing at the top of the table and we'd made a CL final, but we'd won nothing. The majority view was that league position (short of champions) was no substitute for trophies; and our apparent focus primarily on securing CL qualification was touted as overwhelming evidence of a lack of ambition (I think this is where 'To Dare is Too Dear' originated)... I even recall at least one poster claiming they'd consider relegation plus a cup to be preferable to CL qualification and no cup.

Now look at us... a European cup and a poor league campaign has many of us looking enviously at a team that is broadly where we were back in the Poch era.
 
coughymachine said:
Amazing how our views change depending on context... not an observation about you, necessarily, but about the general sentiment of the board.

I recall during the last part of the Poch era having many conversations with posters here calling for Poch to go (and applauding it when it happened)... yes, we were consistently competing at the top of the table and we'd made a CL final, but we'd won nothing. The majority view was that league position (short of champions) was no substitute for trophies; and our apparent focus primarily on securing CL qualification was touted as overwhelming evidence of a lack of ambition (I think this is where 'To Dare is Too Dear' originated)... I even recall at least one poster claiming they'd consider relegation plus a cup to be preferable to CL qualification and no cup.

Now look at us... a European cup and a poor league campaign has many of us looking enviously at a team that is broadly where we were back in the Poch era.
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- Anyone who thought Poch should go during our peak era was an idiot.

- The complaints during this era were 99% relating to the fact we weren't even trying to improve. We had a window of signing nobody and other windows of signing the likes of Nkoudou. It was very obvious the clubs was resting on its laurels and taking the squad we had for granted - THESE WERE THE VALID COMPLAINTS.

"Poor league campaign" has to be the biggest understatement ever, we were the worst team in the premier league which didn't get relegated. And it isn't due to just one campaign, we've generally been out of the top four (except once) since Pochettino left.

WAKE. UP.
 
Deuterz said:
Would I be happy with 2nd in the premier league and CL semi finals? Fucking yes hahahahaha, are you high?

I'd obviously want MORE because fans who aren't fucking losers always want their team to be better, but I'd be content the club was trying to do more. Our fucking golden era where I absolutely loved supporting us had our absolute peak of finishing 2nd FFS.

I have no idea what you're trying to prove because we both know that if swapped positions as clubs you'd be absolutely creaming over how well we were doing.
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I personally would be really happy with their results on the pitch.

But I recognise that these things are cyclical. It was only a couple of years ago that we had finished ahead of them for 6 straight seasons. We were just n the CL knockouts every year and reached the final. We’ve just won a European trophy that they have never won!

And this thread was full of people criticising us for not doing enough to get over the line, for leaving glaring weaknesses in our squad, and for being happy with the top 4 trophy despite never winning anything.

THOSE people are hypocrites.

I can actually respect your stance for being dissatisfied with our recent performance (so am I) but being clear about what would make you happy.
 
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