European Championships 2024 ⚽ 🏆 ⚽

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Deuterz said:
I think it remembers them if there is a great final. The fans of the team will remember being finalists too. Ultimately though, they’re just footnotes, people will refer to Argentina winning the World Cup, they might remember France for a bit but it’ll all be about who won the thing.

Nobody long term remembers finalists … and the memories are always very bittersweet anyway. I can’t even watch the Croatia semi final, makes me queasy. Same with the Italy game.
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I know how you feel on losing big games. Losing to Italy, Portugal and Argentina in finals were all sickening in their own way. At least I have 1998, 2000 and 2018 to remember too…

I think you’re harsh on losing finalists. Italy in 94 are probably remembered more romantically than the Brazil team who won it (that penalty miss by Baggio is one of the most iconic World Cup moments). Zidane’s penalty and headbutt in the 2006 final are all people talk about - probably more memorable than italys win. Last WC final was probably the best ever - the game will be remembered for a long time.

Basically, it depends…
 
Starks said:
In terms of semi final and finals appearances over that 30 years from that top 10:

1. France - 7x semi final, 6x final
2. Germany - 8x semi final, 4x final
3. Spain - 4x semi final, 3x final
4. Italy - 5x semi final, 5x final
5. Holland - 5x semi final, 1x final
6. Portugal - 5x semi final, x2 final
7. England - 3x semi final, 1x final
8. Croatia - 3x semi final, 1x final
9. Belgium 1x semi final
10. Sweden - 1x semi final

Poor Holland.
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That feels like a totally fair reflection of the teams’ quality over that period too. Germany and France have been very consistent with some notable embarrassments. 13 and 12 SF/finals in 30 years is just remarkable. There have been just 15 tournaments in that time!!! Unbelievable dominance and consistency.

Depending on the draw you’d make them heavy favourites to make it 14 and 13 too…

Edit: this is a big L. The semi finals are inclusive of the finals. Still. On average, either Germany or France make at least the semifinal.
 
Starks said:
In terms of semi final and finals appearances over that 30 years from that top 10:

1. France - 7x semi final, 6x final
2. Germany - 8x semi final, 4x final
3. Spain - 4x semi final, 3x final
4. Italy - 5x semi final, 5x final
5. Holland - 5x semi final, 1x final
6. Portugal - 5x semi final, x2 final
7. England - 3x semi final, 1x final
8. Croatia - 3x semi final, 1x final
9. Belgium 1x semi final
10. Sweden - 1x semi final

Poor Holland.
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Why 30 years may I ask?

I would understand more if a date were chosen when football entered a different 'era' but 1994?

Early 2000s, late 80s, early 70s or something but 30 years seems to conveniently exclude Germany in 1990 for no good reason other than 30 is a multiple of 10?
 
SameOldSpurs said:
Why 30 years may I ask?

I would understand more if a date were chosen when football entered a different 'era' but 1994?

Early 2000s, late 80s, early 70s or something but 30 years seems to conveniently exclude Germany in 1990 for no good reason other than 30 is a multiple of 10?
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I started it, not Starks Starks

30 years, like any date, is arbitrary. It is just because it’s a multiple of 10 that roughly coincides with the time when football was invented in 1991. ;)

Also my own personal bias as that’s when I started watching major tournaments.

Germany are the most successful European team in history followed by Italy.
 
SameOldSpurs said:
Why 30 years may I ask?

I would understand more if a date were chosen when football entered a different 'era' but 1994?

Early 2000s, late 80s, early 70s or something but 30 years seems to conveniently exclude Germany in 1990 for no good reason other than 30 is a multiple of 10?
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Was just the year that was quoted by LeParisien LeParisien tbh.

Germany, Italy, Spain, France and Holland would still make up that top 5 if we went back the previous 4 years and started at 1990 for example. I think it would just be Germany overtaking France and perhaps Italy overtaking Spain due to that specific tournament.

Germany are most definitely the powerhouse of the European international game.
 
Starks said:
Was just the year that was quoted by LeParisien LeParisien tbh.

Germany, Italy, Spain, France and Holland would still make up that top 5 if we went back the previous 4 years and started at 1990 for example. I think it would just be Germany overtaking France and perhaps Italy overtaking Spain due to that specific tournament.

Germany are most definitely the powerhouse of the European international game.
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That tournament would put Germany on one more semifinal and one fewer final… with both teams having won 2 world cups and 1 Euro. Seems like close to a deadheat.

Doesn’t change the broader historical truth though.
 
LeParisien said:
That tournament would put Germany on one more semifinal and one fewer final… with both teams having won 2 world cups and 1 Euro. Seems like close to a deadheat.

Doesn’t change the broader historical truth though.
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Youd be missing out the Euro 92 my friend when Germany got to another final.
 
Starks said:
Youd be missing out the Euro 92 my friend when Germany got to another final.
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Good point !!!

Germany stronger going back to 1990.

1980s had some bitter games between W. Germany and France. We lost twice in games we were very unlucky not to win but won a Euros with Platini.
 
Deuterz said:
It wouldn’t be ok. It would suck. But it would be better than qualifying for lots of tournaments and never winning one.

I’ve enjoyed being an England fan lately but ultimately I look back on the tournaments with a feeling of what if more than joy. I bet Greeks look back on that Euros as the time of their bloody lives.

They have one in the cabinet, we don’t. History won’t really care about who made finals or semis.

Whether their win was lucky or not, it was a win. England fans would do horrible things for the team to lift a trophy.
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They might but the England FA are just happy to be there. They never give the impression they really care if a cup is picked up.
 
Tomo said:
They might but the England FA are just happy to be there. They never give the impression they really care if a cup is picked up.
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Yeah our FA is full of crusty fucks enjoying a healthy salary while doing the bare minimum and maintaining the status quo. Happy with Gareth as he is safe, says the right things and never falls below a standard where the FA will be scrutinised.
 
www.telegraph.co.uk

The Telegraph Euro 2024 predictor and simulator

Select your group and knockout winners to find your European champion.
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

Good tournament predictor

My prediction…

2nd round

Germany v Denmark
Switzerland v Italy
Spain v Turkey
England v Poland
Portugal v Croatia
Netherlands v Ukraine
Belgium v Serbia
France v Croaria

QF

Germany v Spain
Portugal v Netherlands
Belgium v France
England v Italy

SF

Germany v Netherlands
France v England

F

Germany v France

Winner: Germany
 
Deuterz said:
Yeah our FA is full of crusty fucks enjoying a healthy salary while doing the bare minimum and maintaining the status quo. Happy with Gareth as he is safe, says the right things and never falls below a standard where the FA will be scrutinised.
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Sounds like Spurs
 
Deuterz said:
Yeah our FA is full of crusty fucks enjoying a healthy salary while doing the bare minimum and maintaining the status quo. Happy with Gareth as he is safe, says the right things and never falls below a standard where the FA will be scrutinised.
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When he does leave, it will be difficult to know what kind of job Southgate did with England. You can't really argue with his record. Under him we generally comfortably beat teams we should be beating, which certainly wasn't always the case. and we only lose by one goal against the very best sides in tournament football. But that type of game and performance against Iceland in 2016 would simply never happen under him.

While he definitely fell short tactically in the biggest moments, you also can't ignore the fact that he's completely changed the mentality around the England camp in that players clearly love playing with each other and for the shirt, which is in stark contrast to the England teams under the likes of McClaren, Capello and whatnot.
 
For me Messi and Ronaldo define a definite footballing era from 04-24/26 maybe.

In that time

Spain 1 wc, 2 euro
Italy 1 wc, 1 euro
France and Germany 1 wc
Portugal and Greece 1 euro

The Spanish domestic leagues also dominated whilst hosting Messi and Ronaldo unsurprisingly.

They also haven't hosted a competition since the 80s which feels well overdue and they seem to either go really far or fail miserably for their standards.

I can see them winning this summer. They have a very good squad full of winners.
 
SameOldSpurs said:
For me Messi and Ronaldo define a definite footballing era from 04-24/26 maybe.

In that time

Spain 1 wc, 2 euro
Italy 1 wc, 1 euro
France and Germany 1 wc
Portugal and Greece 1 euro

The Spanish domestic leagues also dominated whilst hosting Messi and Ronaldo unsurprisingly.

They also haven't hosted a competition since the 80s which feels well overdue and they seem to either go really far or fail miserably for their standards.

I can see them winning this summer. They have a very good squad full of winners.
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It's the poorest squad they've had since the 90's. They still have enough in the team to win it, but they certainly aren't what they were even just 5 years ago.
 
SameOldSpurs said:
For me Messi and Ronaldo define a definite footballing era from 04-24/26 maybe.

In that time

Spain 1 wc, 2 euro
Italy 1 wc, 1 euro
France and Germany 1 wc
Portugal and Greece 1 euro

The Spanish domestic leagues also dominated whilst hosting Messi and Ronaldo unsurprisingly.

They also haven't hosted a competition since the 80s which feels well overdue and they seem to either go really far or fail miserably for their standards.

I can see them winning this summer. They have a very good squad full of winners.
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German league had the best season and they have home advantage and the best coach. Favourites for me.

Spain strong though.
 
Qualifying for tournaments might not indicate success but failing to qualify spoils the excitement of the whole tournament for those nations.

Whilst just being there will never feel like success to an England fan, it shouldn't be taken for granted. Those summers we didn't qualify just felt different.
 
LeParisien said:
German league had the best season and they have home advantage and the best coach. Favourites for me.

Spain strong though.
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Home advantage doesn't always work for you though and can be the opposite due to added pressure. I genuinely don't think playing at Wembley did England any favours whatsoever against Italy in the last Euros final. It also inspired the opposition even more as they had a siege mentality. I don't think it was just a coincidence that England's best performance by a mile in that tournament was the 4-0 win against Ukraine, which was the only game we played outside of England.
 
RicharliSon said:
Home advantage doesn't always work for you though and can be the opposite due to added pressure. I genuinely don't think playing at Wembley did England any favours whatsoever against Italy in the last Euros final. It also inspired the opposition even more as they had a siege mentality. I don't think it was just a coincidence that England's best performance by a mile in that tournament was the 4-0 win against Ukraine, which was the only game we played outside of England.
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I think with covid restrictions it was a big advantage to play so many games at home that tournament. I don’t think playing in Rome would have helped England !!

Historically, I think being at home tends to help teams… the country comes together. Didn’t help Brazil in 2014 though!
 
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